Lone Wolf Posted January 29 Posted January 29 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: Pak bound by geography.. Beyond a threshold of range will cover all their bases. Bvr you need 350 odd to cover pak. Most other missiles 500 to 600km Thats why they will offered given 5th gen jets by bigger powers to keep power differential to as much parity as they can get.
G_B_ Posted January 29 Posted January 29 34 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Thats why they will offered given 5th gen jets by bigger powers to keep power differential to as much parity as they can get. 40 to 50 jets wont change outcome when your bases can be hit. Cheaper to give them missiles that can penetrate defences. raki05 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 29 Posted January 29 14 minutes ago, G_B_ said: 40 to 50 jets wont change outcome when your bases can be hit. Cheaper to give them missiles that can penetrate defences. Will also be offered advanced AD systems in future. Theoretically 40 - 50 5th gen fighters can completely overrun around 150-200 4th gen in air to air combat. India needs to heavily Invest in its conventional missile capability and ensure numbers must be enormous. Pakistan's geography is its biggest weakness. They simply don't have enough strategic depth to sustain an assault for a while.
singhvivek141 Posted January 29 Posted January 29 If this is indeed true....it would multiple our Armed forces capability by multi folds. Extension of Pinaka range to 240k. raki05, G_B_ and Lone Wolf 2 1
G_B_ Posted January 29 Posted January 29 6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Will also be offered advanced AD systems in future. Theoretically 40 - 50 5th gen fighters can completely overrun around 150-200 4th gen in air to air combat. India needs to heavily Invest in its conventional missile capability and ensure numbers must be enormous. Pakistan's geography is its biggest weakness. They simply don't have enough strategic depth to sustain an assault for a while. Who will offer them ad? Hq9 +?
Lone Wolf Posted January 29 Posted January 29 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: Who will offer them ad? Hq9 +? Germany's IRIS T SLM is under serious consideration as it was a huge success in Ukraine war. Pakistan has openly shown interest in it post OP Sindoor. If there is a shift to move towards Western tech then sometime in future even Patriot is not out of the equation.
G_B_ Posted January 29 Posted January 29 16 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Germany's IRIS T SLM is under serious consideration as it was a huge success in Ukraine war. Pakistan has openly shown interest in it post OP Sindoor. If there is a shift to move towards Western tech then sometime in future even Patriot is not out of the equation. Nobody is selling them that. They are stuck with chinese tech
G_B_ Posted January 29 Posted January 29 8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Will also be offered advanced AD systems in future. Theoretically 40 - 50 5th gen fighters can completely overrun around 150-200 4th gen in air to air combat. India needs to heavily Invest in its conventional missile capability and ensure numbers must be enormous. Pakistan's geography is its biggest weakness. They simply don't have enough strategic depth to sustain an assault for a while. Also wanted to say, its never just going to be air combat right? I am sure what you say is true in one on one combat. But its seldom that. Look how our jags hit their bases. Thats a gen 3 bird. 40 to 50 fifth gen birds can have deep strike ability. But they are just too limited to alter any outcome. raki05 1
Lone Wolf Posted January 29 Posted January 29 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: Nobody is selling them that. They are stuck with chinese tech IRIS T SLM has open architecture & can seamlessly integrate & shown data sharing ability with Patriot ADS as seen in Ukraine war. If Pooks get hold of IRIS T SLM then having Patriot is next step. https://bharatshakti.in/pakistan-scrambles-to-western-suppliers-after-chinese-air-defence-collapse/
Lone Wolf Posted January 29 Posted January 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: Also wanted to say, its never just going to be air combat right? I am sure what you say is true in one on one combat. But its seldom that. Look how our jags hit their bases. Thats a gen 3 bird. 40 to 50 fifth gen birds can have deep strike ability. But they are just too limited to alter any outcome. 5th gen fighters are always limited in number (except for US) and China in coming years. Their roles are vastly different. 50-60 5th gen fighters can make a sizeable difference. SEAD/DEAD ops along the front lines would be walk in the park for them. A j35 armed with KD 21 ALBM could strike deep within the enemy territory once airborne. If Pooks do get hold of J35 in near future and we do get into a conflict our first step should be to rain hell on their forward air bases and maximize the damage in first strike itself. India focusing on longer range standoff weaponry post OP Sindoor indicate that similiar tactics will be followed as Pakistanis have genuine weaknesses to exploit when it comes to lack of proper layered AD systems. Their EW warfare however is tad better thanks to those fancy Western AWACS being well datalinked with most of PAF fighters.. including their 4.5 gen Chinese aircrafts. Edited January 29 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted January 30 Posted January 30 9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: 5th gen fighters are always limited in number (except for US) and China in coming years. Their roles are vastly different. 50-60 5th gen fighters can make a sizeable difference. SEAD/DEAD ops along the front lines would be walk in the park for them. A j35 armed with KD 21 ALBM could strike deep within the enemy territory once airborne. If Pooks do get hold of J35 in near future and we do get into a conflict our first step should be to rain hell on their forward air bases and maximize the damage in first strike itself. India focusing on longer range standoff weaponry post OP Sindoor indicate that similiar tactics will be followed as Pakistanis have genuine weaknesses to exploit when it comes to lack of proper layered AD systems. Their EW warfare however is tad better thanks to those fancy Western AWACS being well datalinked with most of PAF fighters.. including their 4.5 gen Chinese aircrafts. Thats where, a strong AD with long range radar visibility becomes key. Its radar if can see the enemy stealth fighter, it can actually hit it before it goes up in air. J35, despite all the hype has reliability has smoke issues which China isnt able to resolve. Thats why theyve not yet inducted it in its Air Force. Pakistan well, it will take whatever garbage is thrown at it. None of the Pak airbases are away from S400s range and our AD will become even more stronger once we get the layered defence of Kusha. What we need to do...is to blast the runways first. Cripple the PAF...thats where long range Brahmos and its partner missiles will come in handy. Sukhois can stay behind the AD and fire missiles to create crater. Whichever jets are able to fly, long range BVRs & S400s should be able to manage it. But in case of any next kinetic action. Navy is going to launch the killer blow. I know its the biggest form of escalation due to power disparity. But blowing away Karachi port to pieces is the best solution to maintain a quick advantage over adversary. Without Naval port and effectively closure of Airspace...Pooks will be on their knees inside a week.
Lone Wolf Posted January 30 Posted January 30 Drone incursions seems to be happening daily across LoC and IB on J&K front
Lone Wolf Posted January 30 Posted January 30 2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Whichever jets are able to fly, long range BVRs & S400s should be able to manage it. 5th gen fighters with their extremely smaller RCS won't be easily detected, a typical 4th gen fighter's radar would detect it very late and that would be fatal. S400's radars can detect a fifth gen fighter theoretically but at extremely reduced range.. operational difficulty would be extreme. Have to see how our counter stealth VHF radars would progress for a credible detterance in such a scenario
Lone Wolf Posted January 30 Posted January 30 (edited) From $8billion last month to now $10billion.. at this point both Germans and French have ripped us off royally.. We could have had an operational SSN fleet in this number. Babus have completely wrecked Indian defence Industry Edited January 30 by Lone Wolf
G_B_ Posted January 30 Posted January 30 13 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: 5th gen fighters are always limited in number (except for US) and China in coming years. Their roles are vastly different. 50-60 5th gen fighters can make a sizeable difference. SEAD/DEAD ops along the front lines would be walk in the park for them. A j35 armed with KD 21 ALBM could strike deep within the enemy territory once airborne. If Pooks do get hold of J35 in near future and we do get into a conflict our first step should be to rain hell on their forward air bases and maximize the damage in first strike itself. India focusing on longer range standoff weaponry post OP Sindoor indicate that similiar tactics will be followed as Pakistanis have genuine weaknesses to exploit when it comes to lack of proper layered AD systems. Their EW warfare however is tad better thanks to those fancy Western AWACS being well datalinked with most of PAF fighters.. including their 4.5 gen Chinese aircrafts. that is exactly what is going to happen. Thats why i keep saying they will not alter anything. Their bases are too close to the border. All are within 300km Projest kusha is very important for us.
G_B_ Posted January 30 Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: 5th gen fighters with their extremely smaller RCS won't be easily detected, a typical 4th gen fighter's radar would detect it very late and that would be fatal. S400's radars can detect a fifth gen fighter theoretically but at extremely reduced range.. operational difficulty would be extreme. Have to see how our counter stealth VHF radars would progress for a credible detterance in such a scenario The j20 has a RCS of 0.01 to 0.1 as per Google (reality might be different). The j35 export version is meant to be closer to 0.1. But lets assume its 0.01. The s400 can observe a f35 (RCS 0.001) at around 30/35km. Even with the 0.01 figure its going to be able to observe the J20/J35 at 100km (i am being conservative). Thats still good enough for the pak forward bases. Once again geography is a limitation. The j20 and j35 are not full stealth. They are a combo of stealth + large capacity for stand-off weapons. A rafale f5 has reported rcs of 0.1. The su57 reported is 0.1 to 0.5 (might be higher, knowing russians tendency to oversell). You need to be in a 0.001 rcs category to be stealth and even there are heat signatures etc. Most reports I have seen say China plans to use the j20 in a defensive capacity to ensure Chinese coastal cities are protected in case they invade Tiawan. The J10c with y21-e is meant to be the main attacking blade to take down US aircraft carriers. raki05 1
singhvivek141 Posted January 30 Posted January 30 3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: From $8billion last month to now $10billion.. at this point both Germans and French have ripped us off royally.. We could have had an operational SSN fleet in this number. Babus have completely wrecked Indian defence Industry If its been made by MDL, Thyssekrupp will charge for additional cost to take accountability of any mishap by MDL. We faced the same issue in Rafale deal of 2016, when Dassault failed to take any accountability for HAL's manufacturing of Rafales. Deal fell off the crack as the amount was way high and our economic condition didnt allow back then. Buying off the shelf is lot cheaper and faster. But it comes up with those limitations. Thats why Pakistan is quick to procure the weapons. Even the J17 manufacturing in Kamra is not a manufacturing, but an assembly of the parts which Chinese throw in packages like IKEA. Once you get the muscle memory of how to assemble, it will always be quicker. Building from the scratch takes time though. But once you get the units set, the timelines shrink sharply, like in the case of our SSBNs. Arihant took a lot of time, Arighat lesser, Aridhaman has taken even shorter time (despite a different in size)...Arisudan hopefully will be even more quick. G_B_ 1
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