G_B_ Posted June 19 Posted June 19 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: India is buying scraps from UK to cannibalize and use it to maintain Jaguars. Can't explain how much pain this news has given me. We are still carrying a 1960 fighter jet in our Airforce...when we dont even have spares. Damn you HAL, you kept on jerking off for years without putting any effort on Tejas program. We should ideally had 5-6 squadrons of Tejas mk1a and 2 squadrons of Tejas mk2 flying. But no, HAL wants to sleep, relax and chill without any tension. Truth is hal has been exposed in social media era. Has been fydging up 20 years before. Missiles n air defence our only saviours.. Ghatak only hope left from me. India should just go ahead with mki upgrades (radar ,a2a reduced rcs) and order 300 more. Make it 00% local and pair with brahmos 2 or equivalent. With usa ordering more f15 super eagles, i think gen 4.5 will easily be around deep into 2060. I am glad army junked arjun and went ahead with localisation of t90 varients.
Lone Wolf Posted June 20 Posted June 20 (edited) On 5/22/2026 at 11:42 PM, singhvivek141 said: P15B is done...INS Surat was the last. P17A...I think only one ship is left "Vindhyagiri"...rest all are handed over to IN. Nilgiri, Udaygiri, Himgiri, Taragiri, Dunagiri and Mahendragiri all are delivered. Bro 5th Ship Dunagiri about to be commissioned under P17A Ongoing Rumour is Navy is considering follow on order for Vishakhapatnam class destroyers under Project 15C Edited June 20 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 1
Lone Wolf Posted June 20 Posted June 20 11 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: India is buying scraps from UK to cannibalize and use it to maintain Jaguars. Can't explain how much pain this news has given me. We are still carrying a 1960 fighter jet in our Airforce...when we dont even have spares. Damn you HAL, you kept on jerking off for years without putting any effort on Tejas program. We should ideally had 5-6 squadrons of Tejas mk1a and 2 squadrons of Tejas mk2 flying. But no, HAL wants to sleep, relax and chill without any tension. We have bled way too much money in upgrading this junk and now more kabaad is on its way to sustain the fleet. Nigerians bhi maze le rahe ab .
singhvivek141 Posted June 20 Posted June 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Bro 5th Ship Dunagiri about to be commissioned under P17A Ongoing Rumour is Navy is considering follow on order for Vishakhapatnam class destroyers under Project 15C Means P18 is getting delayed. Seems design is not yet sorted. Edited June 20 by singhvivek141
Lone Wolf Posted June 20 Posted June 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said: Means P18 is getting delayed. Seems design is not yet sorted. 2029 se pehle I don't think P18 orders will be given. If we are being optimistic then late 2028. Follow on order of Vishakhapatnam class makes much more sense Edited June 20 by Lone Wolf
G_B_ Posted June 20 Posted June 20 20 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: India is buying scraps from UK to cannibalize and use it to maintain Jaguars. Can't explain how much pain this news has given me. We are still carrying a 1960 fighter jet in our Airforce...when we dont even have spares. Damn you HAL, you kept on jerking off for years without putting any effort on Tejas program. We should ideally had 5-6 squadrons of Tejas mk1a and 2 squadrons of Tejas mk2 flying. But no, HAL wants to sleep, relax and chill without any tension. It must be said that jaguar low altitude flight + wespons like rampage give the iaf something unique. Question is do iaf have corridors lined up to offer stealth based in surroundings. If you have like a 300km range rampage er its a very good addition even if old.
singhvivek141 Posted June 20 Posted June 20 (edited) 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: It must be said that jaguar low altitude flight + wespons like rampage give the iaf something unique. Question is do iaf have corridors lined up to offer stealth based in surroundings. If you have like a 300km range rampage er its a very good addition even if old. Jaguars are still more than useful, if we can get spares. Spares are the massive problem. Their AESA radar and Harpoon missile is quite capable...with Hammer glide weapon they are competent as a second strike fighter jet. Its just that with their lack of spares, their serviceability is a big question mark. As the airframes are also ageing eith youngest one being 18 years old, it makes sense to ditch them in phased manner by Tejas mk2 and mk1a. Edited June 20 by singhvivek141
G_B_ Posted June 20 Posted June 20 2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Jaguars are still more than useful, if we can get spares. Spares are the massive problem. Their AESA radar and Harpoon missile is quite capable...with Hammer glide weapon they are competent as a second strike fighter jet. Its just that with their lack of spares, their serviceability is a big question mark. As the airframes are also ageing eith youngest one being 18 years old, it makes sense to ditch them in phased manner by Tejas mk2 and mk1a. I thought iaf struggled with mirage spares. Jags were ok. Jags should be around next decade. Rampage missile has done very well for israelis in iran. Mig 29 and jags are the iaf moneyball tactics. Even if we induct tejas the stealth (rcs of 1) is not enough at cruising altitudes vs modern radars. I think jag expectional performance in sindoor suggests with stand off weapons and geography redycing rcs, it will pack more than a punch vs pak. Probably why iaf has inducted missiles from israelis on urgant basis to continue the jags for a decade.
singhvivek141 Posted June 20 Posted June 20 P75I delays are extremely frustrating. Usually, I am very positive and supportive of our surface warship programs and also the SSBN submarines. But Diesel Electric Submarines with AIP propulsion & Nuclear Attack submarines are much needed to ensure that we can hide in the shadows and attack when the enemy least expects that. India need to increase the defence budget, and allow the funds to IAF & Indian Navy, with Great Nicobar project coming up as a tri services strategic command base. We need to become a builders Navy for both surface & under water offensive capability. Lone Wolf 1
singhvivek141 Posted June 20 Posted June 20 (edited) 12 minutes ago, G_B_ said: I thought iaf struggled with mirage spares. Jags were ok. Jags should be around next decade. Rampage missile has done very well for israelis in iran. Mig 29 and jags are the iaf moneyball tactics. Even if we induct tejas the stealth (rcs of 1) is not enough at cruising altitudes vs modern radars. I think jag expectional performance in sindoor suggests with stand off weapons and geography redycing rcs, it will pack more than a punch vs pak. Probably why iaf has inducted missiles from israelis on urgant basis to continue the jags for a decade. Jaguars, Mirages & Mig29s...in reality all 3 of them are ageing and their spares are a headache. With Mig29s, the issues are more to do with its engine performance...but Mirages is not supported by France anymore, its just that its spares are still available cause Mirage 2000 was sold in large numbers. I heard that Jaguars will start retiring from 2028 onwards, while Mirage & Mig29s from 2034-35 onwards. By late 2030s or early 2040s, we will even start losing older airframes of Su30MKI as well (which came in 1996-1998). Edited June 20 by singhvivek141
mishra Posted June 20 Posted June 20 On 6/16/2026 at 9:11 AM, Lone Wolf said: Finance $10 billion dollars GTRE and before 2033 we would have one enough for Tejas Mk2. But babus will beg Americans for GE and get bitch slapped from time to time. MeA MoD are shameless and repeated humiliation don't worry them anymore. Israelis meanwhile laughing their way to the bank with 14cr/unit of whatever sh*t paint job they are calling Suryastra and killing Pinaka along the way. If it was that easy, there are many countries who dont have Babus and will happily put 5-20 times of uSD 10 billion. Jet engine technology belongs to US and UK. Every one else has a copy. If we had UN veto power, We too could have created a copy showing middle finger to whoever we copied it from. Just to put in perspective, When did we made first car engine. I think 1998(Indica).
G_B_ Posted June 21 Posted June 21 19 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Jaguars, Mirages & Mig29s...in reality all 3 of them are ageing and their spares are a headache. With Mig29s, the issues are more to do with its engine performance...but Mirages is not supported by France anymore, its just that its spares are still available cause Mirage 2000 was sold in large numbers. I heard that Jaguars will start retiring from 2028 onwards, while Mirage & Mig29s from 2034-35 onwards. By late 2030s or early 2040s, we will even start losing older airframes of Su30MKI as well (which came in 1996-1998). Ok. I read jags ok until 2035. Mirages i think its clear french wanted to boost rafale sales. Not made it easy. Migs to be fair there are so many floating around that india can buy 100 odd for 10 million a pop and upgrade with aesa radar and astra lora rampage.
Lone Wolf Posted June 21 Posted June 21 (edited) 22 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: P75I delays are extremely frustrating. Usually, I am very positive and supportive of our surface warship programs and also the SSBN submarines. But Diesel Electric Submarines with AIP propulsion & Nuclear Attack submarines are much needed to ensure that we can hide in the shadows and attack when the enemy least expects that. India need to increase the defence budget, and allow the funds to IAF & Indian Navy, with Great Nicobar project coming up as a tri services strategic command base. We need to become a builders Navy for both surface & under water offensive capability. Just get additional Scorpenes and get that DRDO AIP plug retrofitted. P75I Idk what's the hold up? Shameless morons sitting in MoD have wasted more than 2 decades on this. BC 2037 tak le gye hai and we know it will face delays at MDL so 2040 is realistic number. When there is no choice but to import tabhi inko paise bachane yaad aate hai Underwater capability in shallow waters is close to being non existent. Even Pookistanis are giving threats of having Hangors in Bay of Bengal. Kya hi din aa gye hai Edited June 21 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted June 22 Posted June 22 8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Just get additional Scorpenes and get that DRDO AIP plug retrofitted. P75I Idk what's the hold up? Shameless morons sitting in MoD have wasted more than 2 decades on this. BC 2037 tak le gye hai and we know it will face delays at MDL so 2040 is realistic number. When there is no choice but to import tabhi inko paise bachane yaad aate hai Underwater capability in shallow waters is close to being non existent. Even Pookistanis are giving threats of having Hangors in Bay of Bengal. Kya hi din aa gye hai I am not worried about Pakistan's SSKs honestly, Chinese AIP is unproven and loud, easily trackable by our ASWs, whose program is progressing well and we have 4/13 ships delivered so far. On top of it P8Is are more than capable to hunt down the Hangor if it decides to become more adventurous. My concern is with the loss of momentum, which we have built in decades. MDL submarine shipyard is idle from last one year, they need something to keep the resources functional. Either P75I or P76 something needs to start. We can also potentially export P76s to other countries and create a Military Industrial Complex. Same is with P17B frigates or P15C destroyers, more we will manufacture them, we can sell them to countries like Greece, Vietnam, Indonesia as a package deal with Brahmos. That's how you build the military hard power. Untimely demise of Gen Bipin Rawat & Manohar Parrikar was a big loss to Indian defence. Rajnath Singh & Anil Chauhan are good but nowhere to the level of the above.
Lone Wolf Posted June 22 Posted June 22 (edited) 7 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: I am not worried about Pakistan's SSKs honestly, Chinese AIP is unproven and loud, easily trackable by our ASWs, whose program is progressing well and we have 4/13 ships delivered so far. On top of it P8Is are more than capable to hunt down the Hangor if it decides to become more adventurous. My concern is with the loss of momentum, which we have built in decades. MDL submarine shipyard is idle from last one year, they need something to keep the resources functional. Either P75I or P76 something needs to start. We can also potentially export P76s to other countries and create a Military Industrial Complex. Same is with P17B frigates or P15C destroyers, more we will manufacture them, we can sell them to countries like Greece, Vietnam, Indonesia as a package deal with Brahmos. That's how you build the military hard power. Untimely demise of Gen Bipin Rawat & Manohar Parrikar was a big loss to Indian defence. Rajnath Singh & Anil Chauhan are good but nowhere to the level of the above. The conflict points will be in case of war 1. Submarine hunting. It will put our P8i fleet to its test, along with our ASW ships. They could get lucky hits. 2. Pak Airforce vs Indian navy. They lack aircraft carrier. But they can use land based fighter jets in overwhelming numbers against a single target ship to go beyond its defences. 3. Mining randomly using Submarines - We have ZERO minesweepers. All decommissioned like 8 years ago. 4. Land based drones/cruise missiles against civilian cargo ships coming to India. It would be quite expensive to defend against this threat. They will resort to assymetric warfare as they can't fully face a blue water Navy head on Edited June 22 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted June 22 Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: The conflict points will be in case of war 1. Submarine hunting. It will put our P8i fleet to its test, along with our ASW ships. They could get lucky hits. 2. Pak Airforce vs Indian navy. They lack aircraft carrier. But they can use land based fighter jets in overwhelming numbers against a single target ship to go beyond its defences. 3. Mining randomly using Submarines - We have ZERO minesweepers. All decommissioned like 8 years ago. 4. Land based drones/cruise missiles against civilian cargo ships coming to India. It would be quite expensive to defend against this threat. They will resort to assymetric warfare as they can't fully face a blue water Navy head on If Pakistan open Navy front, I would consider it in our favour. I want them to open the Navy front so that our govt dont find an excuse to spare them. We did a heavy mistake by not neutralising their ports in Op Sindoor. That would have escalated the cost of war multiple times for Pakistan and Munni would be suffocating under the pressure, but govt. didnt want to go beyond. India just need to fire a dozen barrages of Brahmos at Karachi port and then we can resort to glide bombs like TARA, Hammer to perform precision. Once the port destroyed...its a matter of time that these submarines expose themselves as they will have nowhere to return. A diverted Pak Airforce to carriers will put them in direct conflict with our destroyers who surround the carriers plus the Mig29k fighters equipped with Astra...this will open up more airspace for Indian Airforce to target their airbases and runways using missiles like Brahmos, Scalp or glide bombs like TARA, Hammer. Once airbases and runways are gons, PAF will be a sitting duck and they will rely on immobild surface defences to target our Airforce.... Pak Airforce is their strongest wing. Once thats neutralized, it will be a big dent in their military power. Submarine vs ASW/P8Is and Romeos..I think this is a cat & mouse game which will go longer. But our numbers are big, 12 P8Is + 13 ASWs + 21 Romeos. Our Nilgiri class too has Anti Submarine capability.
singhvivek141 Posted June 22 Posted June 22 If this happens, it will be a huge win for our arms export industrial complex. This will put us in league of serious nations who are capable of building weapons on their own. Brahmos plus Akash...UAE may not need tanks as they dont have land border disputes. But we can offer them warships and P76 submarines and work with them together. Sadly, HAL is a joke else even Aircrafts could be sold to others. Lone Wolf and G_B_ 1 1
G_B_ Posted June 22 Posted June 22 2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: If this happens, it will be a huge win for our arms export industrial complex. This will put us in league of serious nations who are capable of building weapons on their own. Brahmos plus Akash...UAE may not need tanks as they dont have land border disputes. But we can offer them warships and P76 submarines and work with them together. Sadly, HAL is a joke else even Aircrafts could be sold to others. There is a market for the upgraded su30mki with brahmos+ astra. Can sell strike squads to countries you have sold brahmos.
singhvivek141 Posted June 22 Posted June 22 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: There is a market for the upgraded su30mki with brahmos+ astra. Can sell strike squads to countries you have sold brahmos. We need to move from HAL first, maybe hand it over the assembling to a pvt vendor. HAL is simply too slow, and with the amount of bad publicity they have, I doubt any country will take Su30MKI risking the delays. G_B_ 1
Lone Wolf Posted June 22 Posted June 22 3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: If Pakistan open Navy front, I would consider it in our favour. I want them to open the Navy front so that our govt dont find an excuse to spare them. We did a heavy mistake by not neutralising their ports in Op Sindoor. That would have escalated the cost of war multiple times for Pakistan and Munni would be suffocating under the pressure, but govt. didnt want to go beyond. India just need to fire a dozen barrages of Brahmos at Karachi port and then we can resort to glide bombs like TARA, Hammer to perform precision. Once the port destroyed...its a matter of time that these submarines expose themselves as they will have nowhere to return. A diverted Pak Airforce to carriers will put them in direct conflict with our destroyers who surround the carriers plus the Mig29k fighters equipped with Astra...this will open up more airspace for Indian Airforce to target their airbases and runways using missiles like Brahmos, Scalp or glide bombs like TARA, Hammer. Once airbases and runways are gons, PAF will be a sitting duck and they will rely on immobild surface defences to target our Airforce.... Pak Airforce is their strongest wing. Once thats neutralized, it will be a big dent in their military power. Submarine vs ASW/P8Is and Romeos..I think this is a cat & mouse game which will go longer. But our numbers are big, 12 P8Is + 13 ASWs + 21 Romeos. Our Nilgiri class too has Anti Submarine capability. Pak always bank on our leadership chickening out at the critical moment and their foreign masters to save their @sses... Indian Navy full fledged can do epic bund blasting if needed. Even right now when we barely have any matured indigenous conventional offensive platforms. As of now their focus is sea denial tactics in shallow waters of Arabian sea. Probably PAFication of their their Navy. Look for an odd critical kill to boast for their awaam. Our Western coast has several assets which are pretty much easy targets in case of a conflict. That's why it should be imperative that no critical industrial plants should be set up on Western front.
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