Lone Wolf Posted June 22 Posted June 22 (edited) 3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: If this happens, it will be a huge win for our arms export industrial complex. This will put us in league of serious nations who are capable of building weapons on their own. Brahmos plus Akash...UAE may not need tanks as they dont have land border disputes. But we can offer them warships and P76 submarines and work with them together. Sadly, HAL is a joke else even Aircrafts could be sold to others. Reckon Reuters mistakenly put Akashteer instead of Akash Missile. Brahmos 290km variant provides offensive capability to UAE for its regional adversaries.. they anyways need to diversify from American arsenal Edited June 22 by Lone Wolf
singhvivek141 Posted June 22 Posted June 22 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Pak always bank on our leadership chickening out at the critical moment and their foreign masters to save their @sses... Indian Navy full fledged can do epic bund blasting if needed. Even right now when we barely have any matured indigenous conventional offensive platforms. As of now their focus is sea denial tactics in shallow waters of Arabian sea. Probably PAFication of their their Navy. Look for an odd critical kill to boast for their awaam. Our Western coast has several assets which are pretty much easy targets in case of a conflict. That's why it should be imperative that no critical industrial plants should be set up on Western front. Thats an issue actually, as our public have extremely low tolerance, and due to that our government has become risk averse as well. India needs to buckle up and prepare for the war, consider it as imminent as much by next month and plan for the same. Though we also need to ensure we dont go the Soviet route which was pushing 30-40% of its capability in military just to maintain parity with US. MoD need to consider military as a form of industry, a source of employement. Only then they will be seriously be able to build it up instead of doing considering it just as a minimum viable product and then calling out a day. Lone Wolf and G_B_ 1 1
singhvivek141 Posted June 23 Posted June 23 Jaguars are a massive problem. After procuring scrap from UK, there are also news regarding India in discussion with Nigeria to buy in retired Jaguars. On top of that, neither Tejas mk1a is ready, nor Tejas mk2 and nor even 12 additional Su30MKI. https://idrw.org/from-licensed-production-to-spare-parts-shortage-the-jaguar-sustainability-problem/
mishra Posted June 24 Posted June 24 Was discussing the disappointment on RR and lack of foresight with a ex RR employee who also happens to be my manager. He opined RR is real deal. Now after several months of that discussion, I see below.
mishra Posted June 24 Posted June 24 (edited) Apparently RR are giving TOT, core by 2030 and first flight by 2032. They are promising india to become a manufacturer and tech just like their operation in US Germany and Britain . Anyone who knows about RR must know that they are original engine manufacturers in every dimain. Even F-35 and French Falcon use their engine PS: In G7 Modi and Starmer went into Bear Hug. So it’s serious Edited June 24 by mishra
G_B_ Posted June 24 Posted June 24 13 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Jaguars are a massive problem. After procuring scrap from UK, there are also news regarding India in discussion with Nigeria to buy in retired Jaguars. On top of that, neither Tejas mk1a is ready, nor Tejas mk2 and nor even 12 additional Su30MKI. https://idrw.org/from-licensed-production-to-spare-parts-shortage-the-jaguar-sustainability-problem/ Dont think they are massive problem. They are loaded with rampage and lora. Thesw scraps dont cost much.
Lone Wolf Posted June 24 Posted June 24 We are so screwed man, delays are inevitable if we opt for design change and certification. They should get limited F414 off the shelf for earlier batch. Price is apparently now jumped to 200+ crore/ engine than the earlier 70/80 crore.
Lone Wolf Posted June 24 Posted June 24 37 minutes ago, mishra said: Apparently RR are giving TOT, core by 2030 and first flight by 2032. They are promising india to become a manufacturer and tech just like their operation in US Germany and Britain . Anyone who knows about RR must know that they are original engine manufacturers in every dimain. Even F-35 and French Falcon use their engine PS: In G7 Modi and Starmer went into Bear Hug. So it’s serious Rolls Royce is likely sent by US to sabotage us again. EJ200 is not certified for singleengine ops. LCA will end up being a failure like HF-24 Marut. We just have to make sure that we don't repeat the same mistake with AMCA.
singhvivek141 Posted June 24 Posted June 24 49 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: We are so screwed man, delays are inevitable if we opt for design change and certification. They should get limited F414 off the shelf for earlier batch. Price is apparently now jumped to 200+ crore/ engine than the earlier 70/80 crore. It was bound to happen. We designed Tejas mk2, TEDBF, AMCA mk1 all around F414. US has enough opportunity to sabotage the deal. They increased price of P8Is as well multiple times. Rest assured, once C17 production line restarts, price will be 3x-4x times of the original.
Lone Wolf Posted June 24 Posted June 24 6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: It was bound to happen. We designed Tejas mk2, TEDBF, AMCA mk1 all around F414. US has enough opportunity to sabotage the deal. They increased price of P8Is as well multiple times. Rest assured, once C17 production line restarts, price will be 3x-4x times of the original. I always wonder at the Marvel genius minds of folks in MoD who thought this was a good idea. Absolute sell outs US clearly arm twisting us and using the fraction of enormous leverage it has on us. Pay the jizya is the new normal
G_B_ Posted June 24 Posted June 24 https://www.firstpost.com/web-show/firstpost-live/indias-rafale-fleet-stands-at-36-as-per-tender-paks-op-sindoor-claim-busted-firstpost-live-vd1974212/ if true than they once again IAF have missed the propaganda bus.
mishra Posted June 24 Posted June 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Rolls Royce is likely sent by US to sabotage us again. EJ200 is not certified for singleengine ops. LCA will end up being a failure like HF-24 Marut. We just have to make sure that we don't repeat the same mistake with AMCA. RR is British. Here is what has changed. India UK FTA happened. India UK strategic tie up happened. What this meant is, even if Indian Government dont give orders in AMCA or anything else, RR can now create parts needed for its engines in India. If I am to believe RR India CEO, they started working. As per him there are 9 parts which are core to engine. They are already manufacturing 2 in India. They will start manufacturing 5 more in India before end of 2026. RR is already providing engines to newer versions of Indian ships. They are already ramping up Industrial capacity, production lines for engines needed for tanks ships, subs and Planes(Fighter and commercial) in India. Brits are lawyers by nature. FTA and Strategic parnership was minimum they needed on paper before they could do anything on ground. Simply because its cost effective to supply them parts in their own engine lines in rest of world, their Commercial Compulsion will ensure manufacture in India. I am keeping fingers crossed. Edited June 24 by mishra G_B_ and singhvivek141 2
Lone Wolf Posted June 24 Posted June 24 19 minutes ago, mishra said: RR is British. Here is what has changed. India UK FTA happened. India UK strategic tie up happened. What this meant is, even if Indian Government dont give orders in AMCA or anything else, RR can now create parts needed for its engines in India. If I am to believe RR India CEO, they started working. As per him there are 9 parts which are core to engine. They are already manufacturing 2 in India. They will start manufacturing 5 more in India before end of 2026. RR is already providing engines to newer versions of Indian ships. They are already ramping up Industrial capacity, production lines for engines needed for tanks ships, subs and Planes(Fighter and commercial) in India. Brits are lawyers by nature. FTA and Strategic parnership was minimum they needed on paper before they could do anything on ground. Simply because its cost effective to supply them parts in their own engine lines in rest of world, their Commercial Compulsion will ensure manufacture in India. I am keeping fingers crossed. UK=USA's interference. Future jets need more internal components, payload, fuel, electricity, thrust. It's not about intentionally making medium jet. IMO inflate AMCA with Iz-177, new domestic/JV engine should also be of that heavy class. RR made similar offers to Turkish KAAN program in 2017 as well.
mishra Posted June 24 Posted June 24 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: UK=USA's interference. Future jets need more internal components, payload, fuel, electricity, thrust. It's not about intentionally making medium jet. IMO inflate AMCA with Iz-177, new domestic/JV engine should also be of that heavy class. RR made similar offers to Turkish KAAN program in 2017 as well. BRITS (NOT AMericans ) who treat Russia as their enemy. Unlike Americans, Brits will go any length to beat Russian. Take that as fact, Indian Government should know how to milk RR with another fact that there is UAC Sukhoi India deal. Play your cards well Modi ji and you will get time bound two Indian jet ENgine and a complete end to end Air travel/warfare machine manufacturing Industry Edited June 24 by mishra G_B_ 1
Lone Wolf Posted June 24 Posted June 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, mishra said: BRITS (NOT AMericans ) who treat Russia as their enemy. Unlike Americans, Brits will go any length to beat Russian. Take that as fact, Indian Government should know how to milk RR with another fact that there is UAC Sukhoi India deal. Play your cards well Modi ji and you will get time bound two Indian jet ENgine and a complete end to end Air travel/warfare machine manufacturing Industry Bhai stop being this delusional.. they are just offering Assembly MRO type framework, no one is stupid to give you IP rights. Besides RR is dependent on GE subcomponents Anyways I don't think we will deviate from GE414 for time being as Tejas Mk2 cannot be allowed to be killed. Jaziya will be paid as we have no other option nor time. GTRE Safran is eventual reality but that's a broader framework. Baaki defence Timeline on X is full on mc bc ing Kadi Ninda and co for being too naive and shortsighted. Edited June 24 by Lone Wolf
mishra Posted June 24 Posted June 24 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Bhai stop being this delusional.. they are just offering Assembly MRO type framework, no one is stupid to give you IP rights. Anyways I don't think we will deviate from GE414 for time being as Tejas Mk2 cannot be allowed to be killed. Jaziya will be paid as we have no other option nor time. GTRE Safran is eventual reality but that's a broader framework. Baaki defence Timeline on X is full on mc bc ing Kadi Ninda and co for being too naive and shortsighted. As i said, play your cards right RR vs Threat of Russia . Also note that nothing from them is stopping a GTRE or any other local engine. And trust me. rR is moher of all jet engines. Its holy grail. If they are on ur side, You are sorted.. infact i was amazed at ignorance of interviewer Edited June 24 by mishra
Lone Wolf Posted June 24 Posted June 24 12 minutes ago, mishra said: As i said, play your cards right RR vs Threat of Russia . Also note that nothing from them is stopping a GTRE or any other local engine. And trust me. rR is moher of all jet engines. Its holy grail. If they are on ur side, You are sorted.. infact i was amazed at ignorance of interviewer RR uses subcomponents of GE, instant deal breaker anyways. Safran is anyways offering same deal and matches our requirements thanks to Rafale F4 and Rafale M for Navy. Spares, mainataince repairs won't be an issue deep into 2040's and 50's Only way RR gets in is if we venture into 2 parallel JV programs along with Safran but that will require some serious capital being pumped into.
singhvivek141 Posted June 24 Posted June 24 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: I always wonder at the Marvel genius minds of folks in MoD who thought this was a good idea. Absolute sell outs US clearly arm twisting us and using the fraction of enormous leverage it has on us. Pay the jizya is the new normal I think our babus didn't account for the change in Geopolitics with regards to US. Op Sindoor changed everthing, and now its too deep to redesign Pivoting to another engine wont give us anything. Probably buy some off the shelf and then work with Safran for the development of mk2. We shoukd have went through Russian engines from the start. But babus wanted cool tech and not the rugged engines of Russia. Edited June 24 by singhvivek141 Lone Wolf 1
singhvivek141 Posted June 24 Posted June 24 Again, comes to the original point. Why did they planned for a single engine jet when Kaveri wasnt matured ? Twin Kaveri engine would have given some thrust to Tejas mk1a and Tejas mk2...atleast of the level of M88. It wont be supersonic but wont be too laggard. Russian engines are usually massive, and wont fit in Tejas. We are stuck in a hole and dont think DRDO searching for another vendor will help here.
singhvivek141 Posted June 24 Posted June 24 Bloody Pookies are getting Russia engines via China. We should have adopted that way as well. Probably we could have bought Russian engines via Belarus
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