singhvivek141 Posted September 5 Posted September 5 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Project Kusha is going to be better than S400.. even S400 core radars are outdated compared to what we will unleash with Kusha. This is probably a stop gap until Project Kusha matures in next decade. For S500, Russia is offering co development.
Lone Wolf Posted September 5 Posted September 5 19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Su57s success depend heavily on India. Although, I would like India to join hands for IL476 & SJ100 program as well They wont attract risk of CAATSA and keep Russia afloat. Su57, IAF wont go for it unless Russia offers ToT with twin pilot variant (and also AL51). Although, everything will go for toss if China offers its 5th gen fighter jet to Pooks. Pakistan can't maintain 5th gen fighters in its current state. I don't see them getting beyond a squadron in early 2030's. It's damn expensive to maintain a 5th gen platform. They will get steady supply of J10c's in the meantime. SJ100 is in the same boat as Su57 as it is basically Yukovlev which directly falls under CAATSA. S400 was a successful deal as our diplomats successfully negotiated a waiver from Congress that we ordered before CAATSA came into effect. Main purpose of CAATSA is to cutoff Russian Aviation industry from outside world.
Lone Wolf Posted September 5 Posted September 5 44 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: For S500, Russia is offering co development. We will do it inside a decade if some $ are spent. It's not a cutting edge tech. Indians have already mastered radar advancement and we are more or less self sustained in SAM tech. It's just Ruskies baiting us for cash to revive their industry. I find it very assuring that we never take S500 pitch seriously.
singhvivek141 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 HAL will have a hard time justifying the delays...if this is true. G_B_ 1
jf1gp_1 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 We are a poor country brought up on subsides and govt schemes. Unfortunately, we are so trained on looking at everything with the eye of money that spending money on research is something we as a society dont understand. This is the fundamental reason for not just this delay but every delay. Bluntman 1
G_B_ Posted September 6 Posted September 6 India should go for the russian deal. If we are ready to consider 31 to 39 billion usd rafale f4 deal then 5 billion to 8 billion usd on s400 + other advancements from r37m to kalibr etc its way more value for money. The s400 has its issues. But its no admiral gorshkov or mig29k either. AD is the future of warfare. S400 is being upgraded with aesa radars in russia. We can upgrade them ourselves in tandem with kusha m1 (150km) by 2030. Given we dont have 5th gen aircraft we need as many AD systems ranging from vhf to x/l bands radars, stand off weapons for our aircraft and as many awacs as possible. ravishingravi and singhvivek141 2
singhvivek141 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 6 hours ago, G_B_ said: India should go for the russian deal. If we are ready to consider 31 to 39 billion usd rafale f4 deal then 5 billion to 8 billion usd on s400 + other advancements from r37m to kalibr etc its way more value for money. The s400 has its issues. But its no admiral gorshkov or mig29k either. AD is the future of warfare. S400 is being upgraded with aesa radars in russia. We can upgrade them ourselves in tandem with kusha m1 (150km) by 2030. Given we dont have 5th gen aircraft we need as many AD systems ranging from vhf to x/l bands radars, stand off weapons for our aircraft and as many awacs as possible. Rafale deal is a desperation ryt now, even France is aware of that. Since we have used Rafale for last 6-7 years and also in a battle...its readiness is high in comparison to Gripen, Eurofighter or Su57. Immediately it can be made operational. Also Rafale is head & shoulders advanced in comparison to any other fighter jet in our inventory, that it is seen as a gold standard. Surprisingly, Jaguars are quite advanced as well, with AESA radar & Darin III upgrades. But they have a very tiny radar, engine thrust and weapon carrying capacity. Su30MKI upgrade will be the real game changer...Virupaksha radar will increase it's ability to see at a long distance and with its improved avionics, it will be as modern as any other jet. G_B_ 1
bsriharsha Posted September 6 Posted September 6 On 9/5/2026 at 6:17 PM, Lone Wolf said: Pakistan can't maintain 5th gen fighters in its current state. I don't see them getting beyond a squadron in early 2030's. It's damn expensive to maintain a 5th gen platform. It's not only that. Pakistan have a trust deficit with both US and China. Neither one is going to give them stealth aircraft particularly if they are afraid the other gets the information about those aircraft. Pakistan have been known to play both sides against the other. I'm really not concerned with Pakistan at this point. It's upgrading to deter a Chinese movie that is more pressing
singhvivek141 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 17 minutes ago, bsriharsha said: It's not only that. Pakistan have a trust deficit with both US and China. Neither one is going to give them stealth aircraft particularly if they are afraid the other gets the information about those aircraft. Pakistan have been known to play both sides against the other. I'm really not concerned with Pakistan at this point. It's upgrading to deter a Chinese movie that is more pressing I might be wrong, but I think China is more likely to give Pakistan its 5th gen fighter jet...if Pakistan behaves. Current, Pakistan is licking boots of US. But US wont give them F35, knowing that it will kill off any opportunity to sell it to India. This is aided by the fact that US control the heart (engine) of AMCA mk1. China, is hurt by Pakistan's closeness to US at present, and hence they're staying away from providing them the 5th gen fighter jet. The moment India makes a decision and buys Su57 or build its AMCA with Safran....one or the other will hand it over.
singhvivek141 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 @Lone Wolf Some reports are saying that even 4 P15Cs will get DAC approval. After that it will go for CCS and then construction will begin. Lets hope this happens asap. Navy needs more firepower as the Rajput class inducted in 1980s are growing old and is on the verge of retirement. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted September 6 Posted September 6 1 hour ago, bsriharsha said: It's not only that. Pakistan have a trust deficit with both US and China. Neither one is going to give them stealth aircraft particularly if they are afraid the other gets the information about those aircraft. Pakistan have been known to play both sides against the other. I'm really not concerned with Pakistan at this point. It's upgrading to deter a Chinese movie that is more pressing Yeah Chinese do give them stuff but never the cutting edge tech coz of trust deficit. US offers a bit more comparatively but takes a lot in return. In Conventional state we stand no chance if China brings heavy hitters into fray in its current state especially IAF. Shorter scuffles suit us better even if they go kinetic. Japanese are heavily investing into their Navy in future and remilitirisation of Japan will ensure at least Indian Ocean remains secure for next few decades. Till then we have to be keeping our guard up and keep improving.
Lone Wolf Posted September 6 Posted September 6 28 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: @Lone Wolf Some reports are saying that even 4 P15Cs will get DAC approval. After that it will go for CCS and then construction will begin. Lets hope this happens asap. Navy needs more firepower as the Rajput class inducted in 1980s are growing old and is on the verge of retirement. P15C is happening and MDL is getting the contact. It's given atp. My main concern is P17B they shouldn't delay that at the very least
bsriharsha Posted September 6 Posted September 6 52 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: I might be wrong, but I think China is more likely to give Pakistan its 5th gen fighter jet...if Pakistan behaves. Current, Pakistan is licking boots of US. But US wont give them F35, knowing that it will kill off any opportunity to sell it to India. This is aided by the fact that US control the heart (engine) of AMCA mk1. China, is hurt by Pakistan's closeness to US at present, and hence they're staying away from providing them the 5th gen fighter jet. The moment India makes a decision and buys Su57 or build its AMCA with Safran....one or the other will hand it over. The j35 is not a huge factor. The double engine doesn't make it a true stealth fighter as the Chinese claim. But it's all the more urgent for India to get the radar's up and running. Regardless of whether Pakistan get the J35 or not. There's no way the US is going to give them the f22 let alone make Pakistan get the f35. Especially as they know the Chinese will look to steal whatever info they get which would almost be a given. And one more thing is whether Pakistan can even afford to have a squadron of those stealth fighters in the first place.
G_B_ Posted September 6 Posted September 6 2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: Rafale deal is a desperation ryt now, even France is aware of that. Since we have used Rafale for last 6-7 years and also in a battle...its readiness is high in comparison to Gripen, Eurofighter or Su57. Immediately it can be made operational. Also Rafale is head & shoulders advanced in comparison to any other fighter jet in our inventory, that it is seen as a gold standard. Surprisingly, Jaguars are quite advanced as well, with AESA radar & Darin III upgrades. But they have a very tiny radar, engine thrust and weapon carrying capacity. Su30MKI upgrade will be the real game changer...Virupaksha radar will increase it's ability to see at a long distance and with its improved avionics, it will be as modern as any other jet. But come on the prices are ridiculous for a 4.5 gen. Su30mki has issues but with brahmos and r37m (if true) is more impactful. J10c is more value for money compared to rafale. Rafale rated well against eurofighter gripen f18 etc 15 years ago. singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 14 minutes ago, G_B_ said: But come on the prices are ridiculous for a 4.5 gen. Su30mki has issues but with brahmos and r37m (if true) is more impactful. J10c is more value for money compared to rafale. Rafale rated well against eurofighter gripen f18 etc 15 years ago. Agree, almost all Western Tech are extremely costly. Russian & Chinese are comparatively way cheaper. Rafale also have very less T/R modules which limits its range, irrespective of whether it uses GaN bases AESA. It's just that, it's reliable...it's EW suite jammed Pak missiles and it even saved Su30MKI from the PL15 missile target. No wonder why China is trying to get as much information about it as possible. It's engine works well and IAF plans to use it easily till 2050 and hence they want to to setup an MRO and more under the hood capability with it. But we have no one to blame but ourselves. HAL is sleeping over, IAF never invested in building a control on HAL..they were happy with client customer relationship. Tejas mk1a got delayed by 8-10 years..,MK2 potentially by 6 years. Navy did a formidable job there...they manage their own designs and have kept shipyards under their supervision. Just get the funds and work will be ON. IAF never paid much attention to that.
singhvivek141 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: P15C is happening and MDL is getting the contact. It's given atp. My main concern is P17B they shouldn't delay that at the very least P17B will come in by next year I assume. This year to kuch nhi hoga.
singhvivek141 Posted September 6 Posted September 6 1 hour ago, bsriharsha said: The j35 is not a huge factor. The double engine doesn't make it a true stealth fighter as the Chinese claim. But it's all the more urgent for India to get the radar's up and running. Regardless of whether Pakistan get the J35 or not. There's no way the US is going to give them the f22 let alone make Pakistan get the f35. Especially as they know the Chinese will look to steal whatever info they get which would almost be a given. And one more thing is whether Pakistan can even afford to have a squadron of those stealth fighters in the first place. US won't give F22 to anyone. It's their gold standard.,, though it's maintainence is a nightmare. Let's see what Pakistan gets first,
Lone Wolf Posted September 6 Posted September 6 7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: P17B will come in by next year I assume. This year to kuch nhi hoga. Next year CCS clearance will still be a good call... But if this year no RFP is issued for P17B then it won't happen even next year. P15C is expected to get RFP in next 7-8 months and will get CCS clearance after all that.
G_B_ Posted September 6 Posted September 6 55 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Agree, almost all Western Tech are extremely costly. Russian & Chinese are comparatively way cheaper. Rafale also have very less T/R modules which limits its range, irrespective of whether it uses GaN bases AESA. It's just that, it's reliable...it's EW suite jammed Pak missiles and it even saved Su30MKI from the PL15 missile target. No wonder why China is trying to get as much information about it as possible. It's engine works well and IAF plans to use it easily till 2050 and hence they want to to setup an MRO and more under the hood capability with it. But we have no one to blame but ourselves. HAL is sleeping over, IAF never invested in building a control on HAL..they were happy with client customer relationship. Tejas mk1a got delayed by 8-10 years..,MK2 potentially by 6 years. Navy did a formidable job there...they manage their own designs and have kept shipyards under their supervision. Just get the funds and work will be ON. IAF never paid much attention to that. Surely cheaper to upgrade mki than 40 billion on rafale.
G_B_ Posted September 6 Posted September 6 And where are we with next iteration of surya vhf radar? Alongside netra mk2?
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