Lone Wolf Posted September 6 Posted September 6 (edited) 20 minutes ago, G_B_ said: And where are we with next iteration of surya vhf radar? Alongside netra mk2? Airbus A321 airframes will be given military grade configuration... For mk2 6 units in total delivery will start between 2033-34 Edited September 6 by Lone Wolf
bsriharsha Posted September 7 Posted September 7 8 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: US won't give F22 to anyone. It's their gold standard.,, though it's maintainence is a nightmare. Let's see what Pakistan gets first, Yeah. My bad. I was thinking that the US would be thinking of being magnanimous enough to sell f22's especially when they've started with the f47.
G_B_ Posted September 7 Posted September 7 12 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Airbus A321 airframes will be given military grade configuration... For mk2 6 units in total delivery will start between 2033-34 Too late man.. I am pretty confident we will detect j20 ie j35. But thats half the battle. Triangulation of air to air will be via likes if netra. Mk1 and mk1a not enough. So india reliant on ground based sam only. India needs to purchase 2 to 3 used phalcon to compensate or push put lots more 1a singhvivek141 1
Lone Wolf Posted September 7 Posted September 7 1 hour ago, G_B_ said: Too late man.. I am pretty confident we will detect j20 ie j35. But thats half the battle. Triangulation of air to air will be via likes if netra. Mk1 and mk1a not enough. So india reliant on ground based sam only. India needs to purchase 2 to 3 used phalcon to compensate or push put lots more 1a Since Airbus A321 is facing delays. Plans are to make proven Embraer ERJ-145 with better radar architecture derived from Mk2 program. Under Mk1a, only major difference Will be payload capacity of superior Airbus platforms. Timeline is 2029-30's. Our Awac game was always weaker suit. It is frustrating
singhvivek141 Posted September 7 Posted September 7 So Su30MKI is gonna carry R37M...it means probably Astra mk3 is not ready for trials, atleast for the next 3 years. Damn...why does everything is getting postponed to 2030s.
singhvivek141 Posted September 7 Posted September 7 9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Since Airbus A321 is facing delays. Plans are to make proven Embraer ERJ-145 with better radar architecture derived from Mk2 program. Under Mk1a, only major difference Will be payload capacity of superior Airbus platforms. Timeline is 2029-30's. Our Awac game was always weaker suit. It is frustrating Our process is too long man...AoN -> DAC -> RFP -> CCS... Then combine it with such a diverse and huge military + paramilitary...their pensions, salaries...we really need to bump our defence budgets. 1.9% of GDP wont cut it. It has to be atleast, bare minimum 2.5%, that too for an extended period of say 20 years. All projects are delayed, coz we release funds slowly, drop by drop, super judiciously. One project gets delayed and subsequently its affiliate projects also get impacted. Lone Wolf 1
Lone Wolf Posted September 7 Posted September 7 (edited) 21 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Our process is too long man...AoN -> DAC -> RFP -> CCS... Then combine it with such a diverse and huge military + paramilitary...their pensions, salaries...we really need to bump our defence budgets. 1.9% of GDP wont cut it. It has to be atleast, bare minimum 2.5%, that too for an extended period of say 20 years. All projects are delayed, coz we release funds slowly, drop by drop, super judiciously. One project gets delayed and subsequently its affiliate projects also get impacted. Top brass believes there is no immediate threat from China (it's their calculation no one knows right or wrong) So most of our focus is on Western front and that's why we do the bare f**in minimum from whatever little budget we have. Honestly having lesser AWACS and SPH guns from even a bankrupt Fhakistan should have been national issues talked about in Parliament but no one has cared for this long. So there is no such urgency. It took Feb 2019 for us to know that .. oh Sh*t we do need AWACS..such was the state. Fakistan inherited military brass from Brits and we inherited Bureaucracy from them it has always been the case. Unless Babudom dies in India nothing will change... The processes will always be too long, slow and lethargic. P75I is a classic example in front of us. Edited September 7 by Lone Wolf singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted September 8 Posted September 8 8 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: Top brass believes there is no immediate threat from China (it's their calculation no one knows right or wrong) So most of our focus is on Western front and that's why we do the bare f**in minimum from whatever little budget we have. Honestly having lesser AWACS and SPH guns from even a bankrupt Fhakistan should have been national issues talked about in Parliament but no one has cared for this long. So there is no such urgency. It took Feb 2019 for us to know that .. oh Sh*t we do need AWACS..such was the state. Fakistan inherited military brass from Brits and we inherited Bureaucracy from them it has always been the case. Unless Babudom dies in India nothing will change... The processes will always be too long, slow and lethargic. P75I is a classic example in front of us. China is a real threat...I really thank to George Fernandes for calling this out. Most of the undecisiveness against China stems for the fact that babus think China's primary goal is Taiwan & their maximum firepower is on their Eastern borders. They are relying US bases in Taiwan, South Korea, Japan to take care of China in South China sea. But Iran has shown that these US bases are of no use. Thankfully, we are waking up and selling Brahmos to South East Asian nations...although small order of 15-20-30 Brahmos wont make much of a difference. Regarding AWACS, we do have lower numbers...but our Phalcon can fly higher and stay in Air for longer duration. Pookies SAAB or that Chinese ZDKs dont fly that high or have much endurance. SPHs, yes, they're a ? mark. Specially when China is throwing them SH-15 for cheap price one after the other...one good thing with us is that apart from K9 Vajra...we have several indigenous options we can explore as an emergency procurement. Army is also prioritising Dronery & missile tech which can literally obliterate these SPHs. What we need though is mass production capacity, specially considering China will give to Pakistan at a negligible cost. Our economy and R&D are behind. Likes of Brahmos, Nirbhay, Pralay...they need to be in tens of thousands. Missiles like Agni, Shaurya & K-series have to be in late hundreds to early thousands. Hope we are expanding our N stockpile and not keep it to bare minimum of 70-80-100. Sgattick10 and ravishingravi 2
G_B_ Posted September 8 Posted September 8 18 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: So Su30MKI is gonna carry R37M...it means probably Astra mk3 is not ready for trials, atleast for the next 3 years. Damn...why does everything is getting postponed to 2030s. This missile has done well in Ukraine when paired with Mig31. Is a AWACS killer which is what we need. This should have been done 5 years ago.... By all means develop astra but needed this. singhvivek141 1
G_B_ Posted September 8 Posted September 8 On 9/7/2026 at 9:39 AM, Lone Wolf said: Since Airbus A321 is facing delays. Plans are to make proven Embraer ERJ-145 with better radar architecture derived from Mk2 program. Under Mk1a, only major difference Will be payload capacity of superior Airbus platforms. Timeline is 2029-30's. Our Awac game was always weaker suit. It is frustrating See I think India needs 3-4 big birds and around 10 smaller ones for round-the-clock coverage and to cover for battle losses. Extend netra mk1a and upgrade mk1 with cheaper Embraer jets. Have 10 of them. IAF is very poor at joined up thinking. I suspect they were keen to make the MKI a flying AWACS with its new virupaksha 400km radar which can track 100 targets. But this was highly experimental thinking. But failed to read HAL are struggling to get Uttam on Tejas. singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 14 hours ago, G_B_ said: See I think India needs 3-4 big birds and around 10 smaller ones for round-the-clock coverage and to cover for battle losses. Extend netra mk1a and upgrade mk1 with cheaper Embraer jets. Have 10 of them. IAF is very poor at joined up thinking. I suspect they were keen to make the MKI a flying AWACS with its new virupaksha 400km radar which can track 100 targets. But this was highly experimental thinking. But failed to read HAL are struggling to get Uttam on Tejas. Yes, one large AWACS per theatre command along with 2-3 relatively smallish ones. Mix of high-low...maybe even one big in reserve to account for any attrition or maintenance. G_B_ 1
G_B_ Posted September 9 Posted September 9 Netra mk1a seems like a good product. Expand what you have imo. Iaf are so poor at planning. Know we have fighter jet issue. Need awacs to be force multipliyer at cheaper cost. Suck even there. Pak air force miles ahead in planning. We have jet refueling aircraft shortage as well. singhvivek141 1
bsriharsha Posted September 9 Posted September 9 The advantage we have w.r.t Pakistan is that those bhikaris will run out of money within 3-4 days in case of a full fledged conflict.
bsriharsha Posted September 9 Posted September 9 They aren't like Iran who have an indefinite supply of oil etc to keep their war machine going
singhvivek141 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 (edited) 40 minutes ago, G_B_ said: Netra mk1a seems like a good product. Expand what you have imo. Iaf are so poor at planning. Know we have fighter jet issue. Need awacs to be force multipliyer at cheaper cost. Suck even there. Pak air force miles ahead in planning. We have jet refueling aircraft shortage as well. IAF has so many issues 1. Squadron Strength 2. Air refuelers 3. AWACS 4. Transport Aircrafts 5. Lack 5th gen fighter jet 6. Long range BVRs 7. Non upgrade of Su30MKI Not sure, where was the planning from IAF officers...they were happy being the client for HAL instead of keeping designs and production under their own control. When Navy can take responsibility of Warship Design, no excuse for Air Force to not do the same. PAF had the advantage of being close to US historically, they got NATO & US equipments readily available. Edited September 9 by singhvivek141 G_B_ 1
G_B_ Posted September 9 Posted September 9 Truth is iaf would be better off with courrupt senior officials. The israel lobby i am sure would have got india 5 to 6 phalcons more than just 3 if they had their way lol. Ditto air refuelers. Iaf unique mix of incompetant + semi courrpt.
G_B_ Posted September 9 Posted September 9 Re paf I think they have played their best hand given power rests with army who are screwing their economy Have enough awacs to be force multipliers. Operate cheap but technically limited jf17 with long range bvr and awacs support as backbone. Maintaining f16 fleet. Slowly adding j10 squads to eventually retire older jets Ad remains a major weakness. But they are limited to chinese tech.
singhvivek141 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 4 hours ago, G_B_ said: Re paf I think they have played their best hand given power rests with army who are screwing their economy Have enough awacs to be force multipliers. Operate cheap but technically limited jf17 with long range bvr and awacs support as backbone. Maintaining f16 fleet. Slowly adding j10 squads to eventually retire older jets Ad remains a major weakness. But they are limited to chinese tech. PAF actually has massive legacy platforms. Just like we have almost 10 squadrons of Jaguar, Mirage 2000 & Mig29UPG..they too have 10-12 squadrons of Mirage III/V and FT7...which are way older than Mirage or Mig29. JF17 & F16 are decent but no match to Su30MKI is terms of pure power. Just that we need to keep Su30MKi updated with latest radar...it will cause havoc to F16 & JF17 with it unprecedented weapon carrying capability. Tejas mk1a itself is quite a worthy competitor to JF17. J10CE vs Rafale is worth a debate. But Rafale's twin engine with more hard points and higher payload give it massive thrust vs J10CE. Only BVR was the ? mark but now with integration of Meteors...Rafale has solved that puzzle. Rafale's EW jamming suite is also superior. Advantage PAF has is that they can force almost 90-95% of their Airpower vs India. We cant do that, we have to keep our assets divided and hence the number of 29-30 squadrons is heavily inadequate despite the numerical superiority vs PAF. We have only 1 squadron of Rafale focussed towards Pakistan which 2 squadrons of J10CE are pointing against India.
singhvivek141 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 The impact of this news is not that its a civilian aircraft, but rather it strengthen the ties between India & Russia despite pressure from US and risk of CAATSA. Maybe, India agreed to buy Javelins just to give a carrot to US....amount isnt that much. Why bigger deals are spent on Russian and French equipments.
singhvivek141 Posted September 9 Posted September 9 It seems Russia wont stop until he sells Su57 to us. Jokes aside, buying them in small number of 40-60 isnt a bad option. Just we need to ensure 1. On time delivery 2. Dual Pilot variant 3. AL51 engine 4. in limited numbera 40-60 5. Control to integrate Indian Weapons 6. No Chinese equipment.
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