Some thoughts on SL tour selection and test matches

[The Outsider]

What I meant by " he is tired" is that of course he is tired but what I forgot to add was that he prefers to play T20 and CT rather than Test series. TBH who wouldn't be tired after so many days of cricket , practice and being away from home but he could have also chosen to play the 3 test matches and rest during the ODIs. It just shows that he gives more importance to the ODIs T20 IPL and some of us here can not believe that a person who rests during the test matches will be leading the Indian cricket for next 4-5 years :((. Its sad

Yup, that's part of what I am saying - money which is more in ODIs and T20s is the primary motivator for Dhoni and not the passion of playing test cricket. I've also said there is nothing wrong with it really but why some posters are singing praises of his dedication to the country etc. (and he will do the same in his next interview) is baffling. His priority is money rather than the passion of playing test cricket.

[Holysmoke]

Yup' date=' that's part of what I am saying - money which is more in ODIs and T20s is the primary motivator for Dhoni and not the passion of playing test cricket. I've also said there is nothing wrong with it really but why some posters are singing praises of his dedication to the country etc. (and he will do the same in his next interview) is baffling. His priority is money rather than the passion of playing test cricket.[/quote'] I partially agree with what you are saying there. But you cannot be sure! Maybe his priority was to "make a name for myself" , and the INAUGURAL IPL, where he was the captain of a team and the highest paid player was a better chance to do that, as compared to a test series in Lanka. You can never know mate.

[The Outsider]

Nobody is going to remember this test series in 2014. Every fan will remember the world cups. Like I said, cant compare them. A world cup is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BALLGAME. PS-offtopic- wasnt it smashed up toe? I dont remember, are you sure it was finger?

Probably a lot of fans who have become addicted to ODIs and T20s won't remember it, but you can be sure that old timers like Dhondy and I are not going to easily forgive Dhoni for skipping the test series if Karthik/Patel cost us a result there even in 2024. And there lies the change in mindset of players as well who prefer masala stuff now. And if you want examples of tests, I was reading Atherton's autobiography and he would routinely play with a messed up back or how Tendulkar played the Kotla and Calcutta tests in '98-'99 after the back spasms at Chennai when advised not to. I think you are right, it was the toe.

[Holysmoke]

Probably a lot of fans who have become addicted to ODIs and T20s won't remember it, but you can be sure that old timers like Dhondy and I are not going to easily forgive Dhoni for skipping the test series if Karthik/Patel cost us a result there even in 2024. And there lies the change in mindset of players as well who prefer masala stuff now. And if you want examples of tests, I was reading Atherton's autobiography and he would routinely play with a messed up back or how Tendulkar played the Kotla and Calcutta tests in '98-'99 after the back spasms at Chennai when advised not to. I think you are right, it was the toe.

Fair enough. I surely wouldnt hold Dhoni responsible if Parthiv or Karthik f'ed up in SL. I'd just pray for him to come back soon.

[Guest Hiten.]

Jayasuriya already retired from tests to play ODIs and T20s, Styris did the same, Gilchrist plays IPL, Dhoni has skipped a test series. All this and IPL is only 2 months old. Time will throw up many such examples, I can't predict exactly who but they'll keep on coming at an increasing pace and tests will be relegated to the lowest priority of the new generation of cricketers.

You do realize that Jayasuriya was out of reckoning in Sri Lanka's ODI side BUT some minister influenced his selection for the Asia cup tournament. How good was Jayasuriya in tests anyways ? Jayasuriya averaged 21 in the past three years. You really think his decision of 'retiring' from tests because of IPL ? Styris ? You being a pro-test cricket supporter/follower are cribbing about Styris' retirement from tests ? How exactly did he strengthen NZ's test side ? What did he have to offer to the NZ test cricket team with his petty batting performances in tests matches outside New Zealand ? Styris 'retired' at the time when NZ was penning some new blood in their batting line up. He knew it, its either perform or perish he chose the latter one because he knew he could not perform in the test arena.

[Chandan]

It's a hypothetical question but he would have lapped it up based on past evidence - he played the IPL through injury for 1.5 million dollars. Why wouldn't he play tests for 1.5 million when he is not even injured?

Because BCCI forced him to? Do you think Sachin also played IPL because of money? If you think those 4-5 crores rupees would make any difference to Sachin NOW after he is almost a billionaire, then I can say much to you. It was obvious that BCCI forced the Indian players to participate in it.

The above implied that he is compromising the team for his ego. Mind you, I am not in favor of Ganguly or Dravid coming back but if the only reason Dhoni plays ODIs is that Ganguly and Dravid are not recalled and he can skip tests, that's utterly selfish on his part.

Principles, not ego and being tied there after taking some tough decisions. And if you think skipping tests is selfish on his part then tell me why is skipping ODIs not selfish on Sachin's part or why all the three members opting out from T20 WC not selfish on their part? And it is of course selfish, I'll say. A player has to look after his career on his own. The board will keep holding tournament after tournament without thinking how the players would manage it. Hence he'll have to decide on his own as to for how long can he go on and when does he need to rest.

It's fantasy to think that Dhoni played each and every match in the IPL under pressure from the BCCI.

And I'll say it is fantasy to not think that way? Why do you think Sachin kept travelling from one place to another knowing fully well that he was injured and couldn't play? BCCI wanted to make it into a big event and hence wanted everyone involved to be deeply interested.

If he can't take a break from money spinning masala ventures, then why does he need a break in the first place if he is committed to the country and test cricket? As I've posted above the standards of heroes in test cricket is so high that taking a break when you are tired being counted as a NEED, does not even figure.

Which other hero had to play as many matches in as many days in which they couldn't even go out of the ground during all these matches for a single ball while fielding? He is committed to his country and more so to the ODI team which he leads. He might be thinking that there are others who can do his role in tests? Or it is also for the selectors to see who they can choose if Dhoni gets ruled out due to injury? How how can you say that the need for the rest was only because he was tired and he wasn't suffering from injuries, bruises, niggles and so on. At least I can't imagine a person to remain 100% fit, without any trouble after havinhg played so much in last 18-19 months! If you can think that he was still fully fit and just tried to rest like a soft cookie, then it is your judgement and you can call him coward or selfish or whatever. I don't think that is the case and think if he had continued any longer he'd have broken down severely. And hence I respect his decision.

Why can't he rest from the end of the test series to the start of the CT? Or opt out of the Champions League to keep fresh for the Aussie series? If you can't see the answer is totally about money and the ego of captaining a side in such a black and white scenario, don't know what to say.....

I'm still saying that it is about principles and responsibility which he has taken after getting the team of his choice. Champions League is again a BCCI venture. Can't see any of the members opting out because the board won't let them to unless they are ruled out!

Jayasuriya already retired from tests to play ODIs and T20s, Styris did the same, Gilchrist plays IPL, Dhoni has skipped a test series. All this and IPL is only 2 months old. Time will throw up many such examples, I can't predict exactly who but they'll keep on coming at an increasing pace and tests will be relegated to the lowest priority of the new generation of cricketers.

That is completely the players decision who either are too old or too injury prone to go through the rigours of the test cricket and playing for 5 days. at the same time, don't we have players like Harmison who retired from ODIs at quite a young age? And of course we'll see what happens--whether your fear comes true or whether my predition that test cricket will survive, no matter what, is proven correct!

PS-offtopic- wasnt it smashed up toe? I dont remember, are you sure it was finger?

It was the finger in WC '03 because of which he couldn't even hold a cup of tea in his hands. Toe was smashed during the Zim tour of '01 and it is still smashed! See, we hardly remember the sacrifices!

[fineleg]

Because BCCI forced him to? Do you think Sachin also played IPL because of money?

Ofcourse he did. Now, since you will ask me next for URL, I cannot give you newspaper reports where SRT said in those many words that he played it for money. But ofcourse he did it for the money despite him glorifying in any interview or whatever.

If you think those 4-5 crores rupees would make any difference to Sachin NOW after he is almost a billionaire, then I can say much to you. !

Yes, it should not be making a big difference if he thinks that way - but apparently he thinks every few crores added to the kitty counts! indeed

[Guest Hiten.]

Ofcourse he did. Now, since you will ask me next for URL, I cannot give you newspaper reports where SRT said he played it for money. But ofcourse he did. Yes, it should not be making a big difference if he thinks that way - but apparently he thinks every few crores added to the kitty counts! indeed

You saying SRT played for money does not mean sh*t to the world. I say SRT did not play for money, I cannot give you newspaper reports where SRT said he didn't play for money. But off course he didn't. Get my point ?

[fineleg]

Right, SRT played coz he was being nice to BCCI and nice to "MI" :hysterical:

[beetle]

Completely agree with Swetabh and Dhondy... There is no doubt that he has the right to rest.....that he chooses to rest now makes his priorities clear. It more important to play the money spinners and he has the right to take that decision....but then he won't ever be in the same league as Kumble .

[fineleg]

Completely agree with Swetabh and Dhondy... There is no doubt that he has the right to rest.....that he chooses to rest now makes his priorities clear. It more important to play the money spinners and he has the right to take that decision....but then he won't ever be in the same league as Kumble .

Please dont even put this $M$Dh$o$n$i even in the same sentence (forget league) as sincere folks Kumble, Dravid et al.

[Gambit]

While I don't share your pessimism regarding test cricket shwetabh, I agree that if test cricket dies, today's cricketers cannot hide their blood stained hands because they will also be responsible for it's demise. In that regard, it's good to see Punter address this issue. I'd like more and more cricketers state explicitly that test cricket is the form they aspire to achieve excellence in the most and that administrators should take note of this and make necessary changes(not rule changes but other ones like pitches/ticket prices/marketing etc) to keep this form of the game alive and kicking. And I am hopeful.

[MundaPakistani]

Ofcourse' date= a random test series in SL is going to be less important than the inaugural IPL, which has broken all records. He was the highest paid player, for God's sake, and the captain of a franchise. Ofcourse the IPL was more important. It would be more important to me too! How naive are you,to believe that a player would give up 1.5 Million $ for 40 days of rest! I'm sorry, but thats wishful thinking. He wanted to take a break during the Asia cup and Kitply cup, but was coaxed into playing by the BCCI. Too bad, he misses the test series. If he hadnt opted out, you would be crying over his selection, asking what exactly has he done to get selected in the test team! Isnt that what you were whining about when we were in australia? Here's what you were saying during the Aus series. Please note he hasnt done anything worthwhile in tests since then.

If there ever was a legendary statement then this has to be it http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=112458 So let me get this straight An ingural domestic T20 tournament is more important than a test series in a country where IND has not won since 1993?

[MundaPakistani]

While I don't share your pessism regarding test cricket shwetabh' date= I agree that if test cricket dies, today's cricketers cannot hide their blood stained hands because they will also be responsible for it's demise. In that regard, it's good to see Punter address this issue. I'd like more and more cricketers state explicitly that test cricket is the form they aspire to achieve excellence in the most and that administrators should take note of this and make necessary changes(not rule changes but other ones like pitches/ticket prices/marketing etc) to keep this form of the game alive and kicking. And I am hopeful.

Why is that? So far in this thread we have looked at 3 possibilities 1- A cricketer has skipped a test series because he is tired yet he played through an injury during the IPL which shows that he is MORE concerned about money than his national team's performance. OR 2- Cricketer was forced to play every single game in the IPL because the board is greedy and money is more important than test series wins. The same board also FORCED injured players to play in the IPL. OR 3- Inaugural IPL is far more important than the test series. It doesn't matter who is right because all 3 of these points are BAD for test cricket.

[Dhondy]

To those who understand and empathise with Dhoni's decision: when the time comes for Kumble to hang up his boots, would you be happy for the Test captaincy to pass to Dhoni? After his decision yesterday, which shows that Tests figure the lowest in his list of priorities?

[punjabi_khota]

To those who understand and empathise with Dhoni's decision: when the time comes for Kumble to hang up his boots, would you be happy for the Test captaincy to pass to Dhoni? After his decision yesterday, which shows that Tests figure the lowest in his list of priorities?

I would be extremely happy if he first proves his worth in test cricket and wants test captaincy. I would love to have the Australian way of appointing a captain, where they give it to the best player in the team. If Dhoni can score better in various conditions in test matches and keep up his keeping, I wouldn't hesitate. The reason for my support is that AT THE MOMENT, ODI/T-20 is his top priority, not forever. There were extraordinary circumstances and it was not practical for him to bow out of IPL. He is the ODI captain, that obviously makes ODI tournaments his #1 priority because team full of youngsters looks up to him. Times change, circumstances change. What Dhoni has showed is that he has an uncluttered mind and knows when to speak up. :D

[Dravid]

i wouldnt be surprised if dhoni retired from tests in couple of years..

[Gambit]

Why is that? So far in this thread we have looked at 3 possibilities 1- A cricketer has skipped a test series because he is tired yet he played through an injury during the IPL which shows that he is MORE concerned about money than his national team's performance. OR 2- Cricketer was forced to play every single game in the IPL because the board is greedy and money is more important than test series wins. The same board also FORCED injured players to play in the IPL. OR 3- Inaugural IPL is far more important than the test series. It doesn't matter who is right because all 3 of these points are BAD for test cricket.

I don't know why Dhoni made this decision. I'd like to hope that it was because of sheer exhaustion and because BCCI did not allow him to rest before this tour. Listen MP, I was like you before IPL started. I had decided that I would hate and detest it. But then, I started to watch it, like it and then unabashedly enjoy it. IPL is not cricket's enemy. It's the cricketers and the administrators. If they want to preserve the reputation of TEST cricket as the pinnacle of cricket, they are the ones who will have to start making the right sounds about how test cricket is prime. They have to ensure that IPL does not take center stage but is still an attractive tournament in a cricket calendar that does not compromise test tours. And the fact that the captain of the best team in the world(Punter) is making a statement means that people will sit up and listen.

[fineleg]

If there ever was a legendary statement then this has to be it http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=112458 So let me get this straight An ingural domestic T20 tournament is more important than a test series in a country where IND has not won since 1993?

:D at the statement :(( at the mentality that ICF fans are having after IPL

[kumble_rocks]

Brilliant OP by Shwetabh ! But , I can't blame Dhoni here. He is not 100 % fit and the prospect of playing Murali in his home turf hardly looks appealing when not fully fit. Granted it was his debut test series , but Dhoni certainly could not read the Doosra back then in 2005. Heck , Murali got him out at least three times during that series...