Ooops, who will we curse now?

[gs]

fab 4... bah humbug! :((

[fineleg]

fab 4... bah humbug! :((

Enlightenment time :--D Like BlackPrince said there is only "Fab 1" now?

[cowboysfan]

can we stop with the fab 4?. ITS the gayest world in the world and should not be used for our 4 great cricketers(who suck at the momemt).

[satishg]

can we stop with the fab 4?. ITS the gayest world in the world and should not be used for our 4 great cricketers(who suck at the momemt).

lol the irony in ur post :haha: so this one series has changed ur opinion is it..well im not asking u to celebrate them rite now but to ask them to retire to call them names is downright stupid and lame

[cowboysfan]

lol the irony in ur post :haha: so this one series has changed ur opinion is it..well im not asking u to celebrate them rite now but to ask them to retire to call them names is downright stupid and lame

are yaar -I love those guys-but they still suck at the moment and that is the truth-I didnt call them names. wtf?

[punjabi_khota]

lol the irony in ur post :haha: so this one series has changed ur opinion is it..well im not asking u to celebrate them rite now but to ask them to retire to call them names is downright stupid and lame

^ you have written lamer things here regarding sachin.:giggle:

[satishg]

^ you have written lamer things here regarding sachin.:giggle:

listen u smart as s everyone knows here that im crazy abt SRT so im biased in my opinion on him..but i have never called for the axing of senior players just coz of this one series..thats wat im trying to say here..

[cowboysfan]

nobody is calling for axing these guys-who will replace them right now?-rohit sharma?-please.

[satishg]

are yaar -I love those guys-but they still suck at the moment and that is the truth-I didnt call them names. wtf?

naah it was not u that i mentioned abt the name calling..anyway peace yes they do suck at the moment :((

[Bumper]

Rawalpindi '04 -> Sehwag first ball duck. Main contributors - Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly Mumbai '04 -> Sehwag 13 runs in the match. Main contributors - Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid Calcutta '04 -> Main contributors - Dravid, Sehwag, Tendulkar Calcutta '05 -> Sehwag not bad for 96 runs in the match. Main contributors - Dravid, Karthik, Tendulkar. Delhi '05 -> Sehwag did not play. Main contributors - Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman Ahmedabad '05 -> Sehwag 20 runs in the match. Main contributors - Laxman, Pathan, Yuvraj Mohali '06 -> Sehwag 87 runs in match, most in pressure free 2nd innings. Main contributors - Dravid, Sehwag, Pathan Kingston '06 -> Sehwag 4 runs in the match. Main contributors - Dravid, Kumble, Laxman Johannesburg '06 -> Sehwag 37 runs in the match. Main contributors - Laxman, Ganguly, Tendulkar Nottingham '07 -> Sehwag did not play. Main contributors - Karthik, Tendulkar, Jaffer Delhi '07 -> Sehwag did not play. Main contributors - Jaffer, Laxman, Tendulkar Perth '08 -> Sehwag 72 runs in the match. Main contributors - Laxman, Dravid, Tendulkar Kanpur '08 -> Sehwag 30 runs in the match. Main contributors - Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid That's 13 test wins out of which Sehwag has been the 2nd highest contributor on 2 occasions. He has not been in the top 3 of any other test win. Laxman - 9 times in top 3 Dravid - 8 times in top 3 Tendulkar - 8 times in top 3 Ganguly - 4 times in top 3. I guess we can close the debate now as far as how these passengers become toast if the driver does not perform.

I refrained from a retort to this, the other day, coz, I didnt have time for an endless debate. Woke up a bit early today, thought I'll put my idle time in the morning to some good use :-D I think you've discarded the two important criteria while listing these wins: 1) The contribution of the openers 2) The overall team total (> 300 constitutes success of MO)

Rawalpindi '04 -> Sehwag first ball duck. Main contributors - Dravid, Laxman, Ganguly

DING! Parthiv, the opener got a fifty.

Mumbai '04 -> Sehwag 13 runs in the match. Main contributors - Tendulkar, Laxman, Dravid

DING! All low totals. 4th innings target was 103 & the game won by bowlers.

Calcutta '04 -> Main contributors - Dravid, Sehwag, Tendulkar

DING! Sehwag, the opener succeeded (88 in the first inns)

Calcutta '05 -> Sehwag not bad for 96 runs in the match. Main contributors - Dravid, Karthik, Tendulkar.

Granted! Sehwag scored 81 in the first inns, but in the 2nd inspite of his flop Dravid & KKD took us past 400.

Ahmedabad '05 -> Sehwag 20 runs in the match. Main contributors - Laxman, Pathan, Yuvraj

Granted! But this wasnt your regular MO, though. The likes of Yuvraj, Kaif, Pathan et al formed the batting lineup

Mohali '06 -> Sehwag 87 runs in match, most in pressure free 2nd innings. Main contributors - Dravid, Sehwag, Pathan

Granted! Dravid took us past 300 in the 1st inns, inspite of openers failing.

Kingston '06 -> Sehwag 4 runs in the match. Main contributors - Dravid, Kumble, Laxman

DING! This is a very low scoring game. India scored 200 & 171 resp. Doesnt count.

Johannesburg '06 -> Sehwag 37 runs in the match. Main contributors - Laxman, Ganguly, Tendulkar

DING! Again a low scoring game. 250 & 236 arent exactly MO's success

Nottingham '07 -> Sehwag did not play. Main contributors - Karthik, Tendulkar, Jaffer

DING! Came on the back of opener's success

Delhi '07 -> Sehwag did not play. Main contributors - Jaffer, Laxman, Tendulkar

DING! First innings total sub 300. 2nd inns -> opener succeeded

Perth '08 -> Sehwag 72 runs in the match. Main contributors - Laxman, Dravid, Tendulkar

Granted! Dravid & Sachin played a big role in the first inns & saw us past 300. But Veeru's contribution wasnt trivial though.

Kanpur '08 -> Sehwag 30 runs in the match. Main contributors - Ganguly, Laxman, Dravid

Granted! Ganguly's brilliance took us past 300 in the first inns & won us the game. Out of the above only five qualify as success as per the origina criteria. Out of these five , one of them was by an inexperienced batting lineup that comprised of Kaif, Yuvi & Pathan.The other two came when Veeru made 81 in the first inns, 76 in the 2nd resp. That leaves us with two score cards (Perth'08, Kanpur'08) when the Fab four, has put 300+ on the board & won, inspite of one of the openers not succeeding (Even at Perth, one could argue that Veeru had a role to play) Doesnt prove to me, that the passengers can drive themselves:-D

[The Outsider]

And Shwetabh, you were saying....? Sehwag goes and India falling in a heap. Two middle order tyros gone, two to go. ****, ****, ****!

I thought you guys were proving the hypothesis that success of openers = success of middle order. Well openers succeeded in this and the last test, but middle order failed.

[fineleg]

I thought you guys were proving the hypothesis that success of openers = success of middle order. Well openers succeeded in this and the last test' date=' but middle order failed.[/quote'] Does that mean MO is not even doing what they used to do before? :D

[The Outsider]

Does that mean MO is not even doing what they used to do before? :D

Yup! They are horribly out of form but I would still back them to bounce back in the second innings.

[Chandan]

Yup! They are horribly out of form but I would still back them to bounce back in the second innings.

Didn't happen Shwetabh! I had hopes from Sehwag and Gambhir too. But they failed as well, despite getting the best situation. Ganguly...seemed that even he agreed that it was his last inning. Sachin, even if not fully fit was not doing very badly before being deceived by Mendis for the first and last time by Mendis. Laxman is in pain hugely and I just can't expect him to carry on. Parthiv is already gone and I didn't expect him to bat long in those conditions when he had already kept for so long. So the end is nigh in this match! I'm just glad that we saved an innings defeat! BTW, this was a strange series where batting against the new ball was the easiest. We saw how difficult it was even for Lankan middle order despite batting against out of sorts bowlers. Sangakkara played a gem of an inning and luck was certainly with Lanka in this match or else third umpire wouldn't have ruled Samarweera not out.

[umpire]

In the end, Mendis was the difference.

[fineleg]

In the end' date=' Mendis was the difference.[/quote'] Actually the fabulous famous 4 or famous 5 were supposed to have this Mendis for breakfast, lunch and dinner - if u read the many posts here before the start of the Test series "I am confident Sachin will show Mendis his place", "No way Dravid will allow a newbie spinner to dominate him", "Laxman is the best player of spin in the world, and he tamed Warne - Medis prepare for ur lesson", "Ganguly will smack sixes off M&M". In the end the ineptness of famous 4 proved a difference.

[Bumper]

Bumpty Bump... We debated on this thread the importance of openers to our success. At that time, i had made the assertion that Sehwag was the most influential player of the decade because of the kinda starts he provided consistently. This series is yet another proof of the same. The same middle order looks a shadow of itself without a platform to launch from.

[Midfielder]

Bumpty Bump... We debated on this thread the importance of openers to our success. At that time, i had made the assertion that Sehwag was the most influential player of the decade because of the kinda starts he provided consistently. This series is yet another proof of the same. The same middle order looks a shadow of itself without a platform to launch from.

This middle order fires if top fires. They seldom do much on their own.

[The Realist]

As much as it hurts to say I think the middle order is over-hyped. Too often they need the openers to get them off to flyers and then they can build from there. That all very well but what happens when they don't fire? The result is that middle order is not able to do much, they come and go, expose the weak tail which gets blown away easily and end up with a poor total. This has happened all tour and a few other times recently.

[bunny]

As much as it hurts to say I think the middle order is over-hyped. Too often they need the openers to get them off to flyers and then they can build from there. That all very well but what happens when they don't fire? The result is that middle order is not able to do much, they come and go, expose the weak tail which gets blown away easily and end up with a poor total. This has happened all tour and a few other times recently.

Do we have a database where we can calculate our middle order averages when they bat in high pressure situations? For example, what's the average of Dravid if the first wicket falls for less than 25, how much is SRT's if 2 wickets fall within 50? and so on. cricinfo doesnt seem to provide an option for this. Having followed Dravid's career really closely, I am pretty sure he sucks in the last 5 years, but was quite good before that. Dont have any clue about Laxman, SRT and Ganguly. Can we do the same for the South African and Australian line up?