What do you think of the behaviour of our younger guys?

[bharat297]

If you look at the way that Kumble, Sachin, Dravid, Laxman and even Ganguly have carried themselves and compare it with the on-field conduct of guys like Gambhir, Sreesanth, Harbhajan, Ishant, Zaheer (even though he is not young), Uthappa, and many of the other young guys it seems like they are a bit too aggressive. I know this is the way Australia play (and we can always argue about the bias in the ICC) but now the Indians are starting to exhibit the same un-gentlemanly traits that have made me not like the Australian team for so long. Dhoni is the exception, I think he has behaved like a true gentleman and handled both victory and defeat with grace and humility. However, I cant say the same about many of the younger players. Although they have the talent, they havent quite exhibited the same dignity and integrity that the big 5 have exhibited. What are your thoughts?

[fineleg]

things change, attitudes change, as long as they dont overstep the line, its ok.

[bharat297]

Thats true but I think part of the reason the big 5 have become so popular is that they always maintained a sense of dignity and grace about them. They have all been true gentlemen. Its not about sledging ... Ganguly sledged and was successful at it. Im sure some of the others did too. Its about the way you do it. To me good sledging is just a small witty remark here and there to put the batsman off his game. Thats when sledging is entertaining. Its not staring angrily and shouting and swearing at the opponent. Thats what many of the younger players are doing and I think its because they dont know how to sledge properly. To me ... if you look at Ponting. No matter how many runs he scores, he will never have the same aura as a Lara or Tendulkar mainly because of the un-gentlemanly manner that Ponting has conducted himself over the past 10 or so years. I hope that we dont see a new breed of Indian cricketers that start behaving like the Australian team.

[Sachinism]

I like the aggression, its good they stand there and give it back, only problem I have is Sreesanth, this guy gets excited over anything. It may seem like our youngsters are going over the top, but they're just doing things past players have been doing, but the c-un-ts at ICC keeping handing them punishments

[bharat297]

^ I understand that they are just doing things other teams (like Aus and SAF) have been doing but do we need to stoop to their level to win cricket matches? We can show aggression through intensity in the field and maybe a small stare after a good delivery and being relentless in terms of putting pressure on the opposition. Small witty sledges here and there are fine, as long as its not personal. Personally, I dont like seeing this aspect of standing right in someones face and swearing at them. It seems like a very ungentlemanly thing to do.

[punjabi_khota]

Thats true but I think part of the reason the big 5 have become so popular is that they always maintained a sense of dignity and grace about them. They have all been true gentlemen. Its not about sledging ... Ganguly sledged and was successful at it. Im sure some of the others did too. Its about the way you do it. To me good sledging is just a small witty remark here and there to put the batsman off his game. Thats when sledging is entertaining. Its not staring angrily and shouting and swearing at the opponent. Thats what many of the younger players are doing and I think its because they dont know how to sledge properly. To me ... if you look at Ponting. No matter how many runs he scores, he will never have the same aura as a Lara or Tendulkar mainly because of the un-gentlemanly manner that Ponting has conducted himself over the past 10 or so years. I hope that we dont see a new breed of Indian cricketers that start behaving like the Australian team.

Do you think the new guys give a crap ?

[bharat297]

No ... and thats my point. I think as important as it is to be good at your sport it is also important to be a good sportsman. I think sportsmanship is quite important and I dont think the younger players understand that. Look at the West Indies team of the 1970s and 1980s ... They were ruthless world champions. Yet they were true gentlemen. As a result, everyone loved to watch them. Id hate for our side to become just an Indian version of Australia now. Its not all Australians either ... Look at Brett Lee. A great role model. He is an intense cricketer who plays hard but doesnt get into heated confrontations with his opponents. I think we can be successful without being obnoxious. Look at Dhoni ... he is a fine example. But sadly, few youngsters are following his example.

[Predator_05]

True gentlemen, my ass. You need to read up on your cricket history

[Sachinism]

I agree they shouldn't get personal, but when they play against Australia, they'll dish it out so these players retaliate, sometimes they get it wrong and say something they shouldn't have, but at times the Aussies would have said something nasty and got a response, but the match referee only see's some things

[bharat297]

True gentlemen, my ass. You need to read up on your cricket history

Haha yea ok point taken ... but I was thinking more along the likes of guys like Malcolm Marshall, Viv Richards,Gordon Greendidge, Courtney Walsh, and Joel Garner.

[bharat297]

I agree they shouldn't get personal' date=' [b']but when they play against Australia, they'll dish it out so these players retaliate, sometimes they get it wrong and say something they shouldn't have, but at times the Aussies would have said something nasty and got a response, but the match referee only see's some things

Yep fair enough ... but it doesnt just happen against Australia. You see it happen with our guys against all teams. Look at Gambhir and his shoulder barge against Afridi. Personally , Id rather see a team with players like Dhoni, Kumble, Sachin, Laxman, Dravid, Ganguly and even Sehwag ... who have all been able to stand up to the Aussies without having to stoop to their level. I was impressed with the way Harbhajan handled himself in Australia earlier this year during the ODI series, when he responded to the Australians abuse by taking crucial wickets in the final to help India win the series. I like seeing that rather than seeing players get in each others faces and scream and shout and swear. Its not a classy thing to do. Basically what Im saying is ... don't give the ICC or anyone else any ammunition. Lets be the gentlemen and let the bat and the ball do the talking. Regardless of who started it ... stooping to their level makes us just as bad as them. We have the skills to beat any team in the world and be the new world no.1. Lets be gracious champions.

[zochja]

I am Australian and here we often get aggressive in our sports (vocally & physically) to see if we can break the opposition or affect their focus. It is quite testing and often it is the retaliation which is seen. I think in Australian sports we have this thing where we believe a true professional can handle anything and so we test them to see if we can get on top of them in all areas and gain an advantage. Growing up in Australia I have experienced this quite often, while playing sports. This way of playing sport in Australia is quite acceptable in Australia, because it is considered quite normal, however in a world game sometimes the acceptable becomes the unacceptable. I can see many cultural differences in all these forums and I am imagining it would be hard as a cricketing body to be able to reach common ground all the time and I can understand that if something is not normal for a particular culture then they might retaliate, perhaps a little differently

[jf1gp_1]

Great thread. I couldnt agree more, just because everyone is verbal, suggestive blah blah blah is no justification to change your behavior. One of the most aggressive batsman/ player in current indian lineup rarely opens his mouth or acts out, yet when sehwag has a bat in his hand NOT ONE bowler dares pissing him off. Ultimate act of aggression for me was when Prasad bowled Sohail; now thats a tight slap noone is going to forget anytime soon even though it happened 10 yrs ago

[bharat297]

^ Yep Sehwag and Dhoni are 2 fine examples of players playing aggressively and playing attacking cricket without trying to be confrontational with your opponent. At the end of the day, you can be as aggressive as you want, but its playing cricket that wins you matches. I think Brett Lee and Michael Hussey in the Australian team are 2 players that are tough. They dont back down and they always look to win, but at the end of the day, they conduct themselves as gentlemen on the field. Stuart Clark is another in that category.

[bharat297]

I am Australian and here we often get aggressive in our sports (vocally & physically) to see if we can break the opposition or affect their focus. It is quite testing and often it is the retaliation which is seen. I think in Australian sports we have this thing where we believe a true professional can handle anything and so we test them to see if we can get on top of them in all areas and gain an advantage. Growing up in Australia I have experienced this quite often, while playing sports. This way of playing sport in Australia is quite acceptable in Australia, because it is considered quite normal, however in a world game sometimes the acceptable becomes the unacceptable. I can see many cultural differences in all these forums and I am imagining it would be hard as a cricketing body to be able to reach common ground all the time and I can understand that if something is not normal for a particular culture then they might retaliate, perhaps a little differently

Thats a very good post. I have spent pretty much all my life in Australia and I have noticed the same thing.

[DomainK]

I am Australian and here we often get aggressive in our sports (vocally & physically) to see if we can break the opposition or affect their focus. It is quite testing and often it is the retaliation which is seen. I think in Australian sports we have this thing where we believe a true professional can handle anything and so we test them to see if we can get on top of them in all areas and gain an advantage. Growing up in Australia I have experienced this quite often, while playing sports. This way of playing sport in Australia is quite acceptable in Australia, because it is considered quite normal, however in a world game sometimes the acceptable becomes the unacceptable. I can see many cultural differences in all these forums and I am imagining it would be hard as a cricketing body to be able to reach common ground all the time and I can understand that if something is not normal for a particular culture then they might retaliate, perhaps a little differently

Thats a very good post. I have spent pretty much all my life in Australia and I have noticed the same thing.

But I am afraid that does not sound very civilized.....by any standards.

[bharat297]

Yes its not the most gentlemanly thing to do ... and there is a very good article on cricinfo that supports this. The article is called "Losing my Religion" by Siddhartha Vaidyanathan. Here are a couple of good excerpts from it ...

Then came Kumble and the two undertook a teenager-pampering mission not seen in India before. Tendlya walked on water, Jumbo parted seas. Our mothers were happy that we had nice heroes - down-to-earth prodigy and studious, brilliant bespectacled engineer. They were honest, industrious sportsmen, embodying the middle class.

These players were not only outstanding cricketers but also great statesmen. However hard they competed, they were always exceptional role models. Now we dread the next wave of brashness and impetuosity. Harbhajan Singh and Sreesanth are talented cricketers, but there's no way anyone would want a young kid to emulate either. The younger crop seems worse - a visit to some of their Orkut and Facebook pages tells you enough - and things may only get cruder in a cricket world when you can make a million dollars in a little over three hours.

The second quote sums up my view so perfectly and eloquently.

[bharat297]

Thug-like, loutish,obnoxious, aggressive behaviour to win a cricket match because of the motto that we must "win at all costs" I think will eventually ruin the game. If too much of this continues, eventually one day we're gonna reach a stage where we have deliberate physical contact with the intent to hurt a player. Look at Roger Federer or Tiger Woods. Can you imagine Federer in the Wimbeldon final going up to Rafael Nadal during that last set tie-break and saying "F*** off you a***licker", and then had Federer won simply make the excuse that "Yea, I had to win at all costs" When did winning at all costs mean throwing away you're integrity and dignity?

[Shehezaada]

When will people realize that playing aggressive cricket has nothing to do with cursing or sledging. Why has Tendulkar been so successful against Australia? He has played aggressive cricket with the bat, not using his mouth. His body language is fantastic, and he BELIEVES. He doesn't find the need to go curse the Aussies, he just shuts them up with his bat. Why was Michael Jordan so successful? Did he go and trash talk every single night? No, only when he was pushed he would talk trash back. But he did by having faith in his abilities, by being compeitive and intense. Why are these athletes so similar? It's the hunger, the competitiveness, the passion. They play to win. What's remarkable is that both men are great warriors on the field, but great human beings off it. We don't need to emulate the Aussie way of cursing and making idiotic, disgusting comments. If you want to emulate something, emulate their spirit, their never say die attitude. When Tendulkar yesterday was battering them into submission, he hit Watson past cover (Ponting). There was an extra cover in place but still Ponting went off like a rocket and got to it before the boundary rider and saved an extra run. I hate Ponting but you have to respect that. In other words, be aggressive with the bat and not the mouth.

[flamy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Brett Lee always gives a stare down to the batters. Now, Zaheer does the same, he doesn't abuse, he just gives dirty looks, and no no no no, Zaheer is a bad boy. Gambhir goes about his business batting beautifully. And the Aussies just can't take it. They try to sledge him and abuse him (Katich), and he digs in even more and gets a double-hundred. After all that abuse by the whole team, and no helping voice at the other end (like Dhoni), he lets his temper fly. But, no no no no no, be robotic young man, you are not a good "role-model" otherwise. I have no problem with the current players. They are excellent at banter and witty sledging. Just look how they have cleverly sledged the Aussies in the media. Calling them defensive, even Laxman! LULZ! And, do keep your ears open for the amazingly entertaining banter from Dhoni behind the stumps. That just gees up the whole team. None of the present team is going to take anything on the chin and turn the other cheek. And that is the way it should be. If you notice, we have never started the sledging. It's always been a retort.