Irfan

[Fontaine]

^^ good post.i think its all about confidence.u can see the insecurity in his eyes wen he runs in.he is trying too hard.if possible we should try to give him 4-5 games on the trot n see how he goes.i'm sure he'll get better

Sorry, no disrespect intended, but there are only a few people here who's opinions I hold in high regard when it comes to bowling (and you're not one of them). So it's not just a confidence thing especially when you're just looking at the "insecurity in his eyes" - which I'm not sure how you can even do by looking at the TV screen where it's difficult to make out great detail of the bowler's face, eyes etc. I'm going by looking at his bowling action, line/length, seam position. Pathan is coming off of his BEST FC season where at times he dominated and was a match winner for Baroda (albeit at times against weaker opposition). On the back of that he was picked in the side ahead of guys like Balaji, Sreesanth, etc. If that doesn't inspire confidence then nothing will. Pathan had a golden chance, under the lights, with the NEW BALL, when it's going to do something and he pissed it away by choosing to bowl good lengths, bouncers, and slower balls rather than going for swing defending a monumental total against a Sri Lankan batting attack that has been suffering. No excuses. Pathan blew it and this is coming from a guy who's one of his biggest supporters.

[Fontaine]

Irfan can not do anything on a flat pitch. Give him a bot of a helpful track and he will be a handful. I am afraid he can not be a permanent member of this team.

It wasn't just a flat pitch. For most of his overs, he was bowling under the lights, with the new ball, when Kula, ZK etc got the ball to swing.

[Fontaine]

If I was Dhoni or Prasad I would have been kicking Pathan's ***** up and down the dressing room after the match. The captain wins the toss, specifically cites that he wants to bat first because the ball has consistently done something under the lights and you're new ball bowler who's speciality is swing, doesn't even try to swing/seam the ball. What a clown. Without ZK, this side is truely boned.

[Lord]

Sorry, no disrespect intended, but there are only a few people here who's opinions I hold in high regard when it comes to bowling (and you're not one of them). So it's not just a confidence thing. Pathan is coming off of his BEST FC season where at times he dominated and was a match winner for Baroda (albeit at times against weaker opposition). On that back of that he was picked in the side ahead of guys like Balaji, Sreesanth, etc. If that doesn't inspire confidence then nothing will. Pathan had a golden chance, under the lights, with the NEW BALL, when it's going something and he pissed it away by choosing to bowl good lengths, bouncers, and slower balls rather than going for swing defending a monumental total against a Sri Lankan batting attack that has been suffering. No excuse. Pathan blew it and this is coming from a guy who's one of his biggest supporters.

supporter?wat kind of supporter u r? supporter,especially the biggest ones dont bash players like u r doing. i dont care whether u hold my opinion high or not.i didnt get into technicalities of bowling like u doesnt mean i dont know anything about it. i normally dont want my posts to be long n boring like urs(no offence).i was summing up my opinion IN ADDITION to ur points.u can be best in FC cricket,but intl cricket is different.wen u warm the benches for most occasions knowing u are good enuf to be in XI n have also had a feel of it,pressure is bound to be there.

[Show_stopper]

Fontaine..did you watch Zak in this series? He too has failed to swing it big like he did in August in the same ground. Praveen Kumar,for all the talk of pace(or lack of), has been the pick of our seamers for me in this series.I know Ishant has the figures.. but he is clearly not in rhythm and is currently bowling in the low 130's..this happens to him whenever he comes back from a log lay-off.He gradually builds up his pace over the course of the series. He showed signs of getting his speeds up in the last game but unfortunately got tonked around by Sangakara.Hope he plays the 5th ODI too..we have literally no chance if he and Zak don't come out all guns blazing from the word go in NZ.

[donkey]

He is very well proven at this level. Do not discount that. He knows what it is like to take premier wickets...he has taken the best in his time. He knows he can take them out. This is something his competitors do not have. Not that they cannot have....they could too...but not the way this guy has taken wickets man. Give him some time. I know a champion when I see one. He is one.

Thats the issue, expecting him to improve due to his past glory days wont help the situation. India desperately needs a third seam bowler at the moment and Irfan has failed to step upto the mark several times. Besides international cricket is no place to rediscover your swing or practice your seam position. If he cant swing it in domestic cricket there is no need to keep our fingers crossed. If he was coming back from injury then it was a whole different story..unfortunately not.

[fineleg]

As Boycott would say it, esp in helpful conditions, 'you gotta peetch it up, peetch it up', try for swing, irfan.

[Fontaine]

supporter?wat kind of supporter u r? supporter,especially the biggest ones dont bash players like u r doing. i dont care whether u hold my opinion high or not.i didnt get into technicalities of bowling like u doesnt mean i dont know anything about it. i normally dont want my posts to be long n boring like urs(no offence).i was summing up my opinion IN ADDITION to ur points.u can be best in FC cricket,but intl cricket is different.wen u warm the benches for most occasions knowing u are good enuf to be in XI n have also had a feel of it,pressure is bound to be there.

Fair enough. I just feel that part of being a fan is also being honest and critical when a player doesn't perform to his level. :winky: I'm just going by what I see on the field. Pathan has bowled a lot faster and gotten genuine swing recently (against Aus) because that's the way he chose to bowl and he got the results. This time, I'm criticising his decisions not to even try to swing the ball under favorable conditions when the captain specifically wanted that when he won the toss. To me that inexcuseable and shows either stupidity or a poor attitude and I can't tolerate either. Yes, I am a huge supporter of Irfan but just as I've bashed Sreesanth for making brain dead decisions, I'll equally bash Pathan for doing the same which is only fair.

[Fontaine]

Fontaine..did you watch Zak in this series? He too has failed to swing it big like he did in August in the same ground.

Yes sir! I did watch Zaheer and he gotten the ball to swing both ways with the new ball, at times he hasn't. But he's done the basics right whether it being correct seam position or pitching it up with the new ball. Also don't forget he's used angles over and around the wicket very well and has gotten plenty of very close LBW shouts that weren't given.

[fineleg]

Fair enough. I just feel that part of being a fan is also being honest and critical when a player doesn't perform to his level. :winky: .

You are right!

[flamy]

You are right!

Fontaine pwnd! :((

[fineleg]

Fontaine pwnd! :((

Out flamy, out! :fishing:

[h4te]

You are right!

hi finey :itsme:

[Feed]

Reconstructing Irfan More... Reconstructing Irfan G.S. Vivek Posted: Feb 07, 2009 at 0306 hrs IST Colombo: The Indian dressing room was understandably jovial, uproarious laughter piercing through the half-empty stands of the Premadasa Stadium after their record-breaking ninth consecutive victory on Thursday night. In the middle of the celebrations, two men were having a serious conversation — Irfan Pathan, who had just salvaged his comeback with the softer ball, wanted answers from Zaheer Khan about some problems that cropped up with his bowling during the match. The senior left-arm seamer, rested for the fourth one-day international, was more than willing to lend a helping hand. Zaheer first heard Irfan out, and then demonstrated the basics of the release of the ball, the wrist position, and advised how to make last-minute adjustments for a slower ball. Zaheer then did a practical demonstration on the outfield. “Don’t think much, you just throw the ball,” he advised Irfan, while asking him to bowl a few deliveries. Irfan’s dilemma is slightly different from the last time, when he went searching for Wasim Akram and Andy Roberts’s advice. He knows what needs to be done now, but doesn’t seem to be able to execute it correctly. And who better than Zaheer, arguably the best left-arm seamer in world Cricket today, to show him the way. Zaheer then indicated to Irfan the difference between thinking about the delivery at the top of the run-up, and thinking about it in the final stride. “When you are taking the jump, rock back and then pause mentally. Now think of what ball you have to bowl. You will know how the batsman is reacting instead of just pre-planning the delivery and running in,” he told Irfan. Irfan had had problems on Thursday with the new ball after Sanath Jayasuriya launched into an early offensive, and though the Indian paceman did dismiss him, the need for more work was reiterated by his opening-spell figures of 5-0-42-1. An optional practice was slotted on Friday at the request of Irfan, Lakshmipathy Balaji and Ravindra Jadeja and the parameters of their work were to be judged by Sachin Tendulkar, who agreed to pad up against the bowlers. “This is the correct length, you didn’t give me width to cut the ball,” he kept telling Irfan. Tendulkar was giving final touches to the job started by Zaheer the previous night, as Irfan, monitored closely by Venkatesh Prasad, bowled with a semi-new ball to an imaginary field. “It was a special gesture from Sachin to agree to come with us for this optional practice. It’s a relaxed environment and he passed on invaluable information,” said coach Gary Kirsten, who also helped Tendulkar wipe out little difficulties in his on-side play that has been getting him leg-before this series. The Indian coach defended Irfan. “It’s been difficult for him. He’s been in and out of the side and hasn’t played many games. He’s worked really hard and the kind of work ethic he has is admirable. I hope it will be suitably rewarded.” As things stand, Irfan is still a work in progress, but this time he isn’t looking too far outside for advice. Having learnt his lessons, now he’s merely looking for a set of motivators.

[fineleg]

zk, srt, gk helping ikp gk helping srt himself good teamwork

[The Outsider]

They'll need more brick and mortar to reconstruct him than being used at the Ground Zero construction going on evidence of the last match.

[Fontaine]

Zaheer first heard Irfan out, and then demonstrated the basics of the release of the ball, the wrist position, and advised how to make last-minute adjustments for a slower ball. Zaheer then did a practical demonstration on the outfield. “Don’t think much, you just throw the ball,” he advised Irfan, while asking him to bowl a few deliveries. Irfan’s dilemma is slightly different from the last time, when he went searching for Wasim Akram and Andy Roberts’s advice. He knows what needs to be done now, but doesn’t seem to be able to execute it correctly. And who better than Zaheer, arguably the best left-arm seamer in world Cricket today, to show him the way.

this is pretty much what I said. His seam position for a swing bowler was horrible and that comes from the wrist/release. At least he's acknowledged the problem and is working hard to get it fixed. Until he can consistently launch the ball with the correct seam position there wont be any swing no matter how much he changes his bowling action. It really is shocking that having had all this time in the international circuit, time off for FC cricket, Pathan is still struggling with the very basics. Good luck Irfan.

[f.b.m]

I only saw the second spell from Irfan when the match was already won. Now, I didnt rate him very highly ever since he remodelled his action (around 2007 t20 WC) but there was one thing I found very confusing. The seam position was almost 45 degrees. I dont know whether he was trying to bowl slower balls or trying to swing the ball. (the speeds were in the low 130s, btw). Whatever it is, in his present form, Irfan shouldnt be playing international cricket.

[Fontaine]

I only saw the second spell from Irfan when the match was already won. Now, I didnt rate him very highly ever since he remodelled his action (around 2007 t20 WC) but there was one thing I found very confusing. The seam position was almost 45 degrees. I dont know whether he was trying to bowl slower balls or trying to swing the ball. (the speeds were in the low 130s, btw). Whatever it is, in his present form, Irfan shouldnt be playing international cricket.

When Irfan bowls the slower one, he slides his fingers over the ball when releasing. Ironically he has more control over his slower balls than he does trying to bowl with the right seam position with fuller deliveries for swing.

[f.b.m]

When Irfan bowls the slower one, he slides his fingers over the ball when releasing. Ironically he has more control over his slower balls than he does trying to bowl with the right seam position with fuller deliveries for swing.

The thing is that in the second spell, it looked like he was bowling something in between his cutters and swingers (to get into Nathan Bracken terminology). Atleast, I couldnt figure out what he was trying to do then. And yeah, it is true that he has more control over his slower balls than the normal deliveries. Shows that he's concentrating more on limited overs cricket, which again is dissappoiting.