We are very very corrupt people

[Ram]

This whole Dowry thingy is disgusting, but thats nature's own way of bringing black money onto the open. :winky: Before, I used to be really appalled at all the money that was wasted in these useless ceremonies and practices of marriage. Then, I figured out that whenever a marriage happens (specifically a Hindu one), it generates tremendous economic activity and helps provide employment to 100s of people. So, in a way, marriage helps in the redistribtion of wealth from the haves to the have-nots and thats excellent! :yay: Of course, this system works perfectly if its only the wealthy people who have to spend. But, when such extravagant marriage ceremonies become the norm, even poor and lower middle class people are forced to borrow exorbitant sums of money to pay for the expenses and that’s really unfortunate. :((

[Lurker]

Before' date=' I used to be really appalled at all the money that was wasted in these useless ceremonies and practices of marriage. Then, [b']I figured out that whenever a marriage happens (specifically a Hindu one), it generates tremendous economic activity and helps provide employment to 100s of people. So, in a way, marriage helps in the redistribtion of wealth from the haves to the have-nots and thats excellent! :yay: Of course, this system works perfectly if its only the wealthy people who have to spend. But, when such extravagant marriage ceremonies become the norm, even poor and lower middle class people are forced to borrow exorbitant sums of money to pay for the expenses and that’s really unfortunate. :((

In Islam its the male fraternity who has to pay the money in the form of haq-e-mehar. You wont see too many girls asking for a large amount for mehar although as everything subcontinental even this has now become caste driven, groom's parent asking for money etc etc.

[veeru_rocks]

In Islam its the male fraternity who has to pay the money in the form of haq-e-mehar. You wont see too many girls asking for a large amount for mehar although as everything subcontinental even this has now become caste driven' date=' groom's parent asking for money etc etc.[/quote'] Come on dude you of all people should have been knowing this better . haq-e-meher is not sthg that groom's parent gives it's something which groom's side promises if and when marriage ends in divorce. It's kind of lump-sum alimony settlement in advance. So technically speaking even hindus will have to provide haq-e-meher a sort of alimony if and when thigns end in divorce but that amount is decided later in court because hindus don't like to enter marriage thinking about divorce. So haq-e-meher is nothign but a pre-nuptual-agrrement Even amongst muslims dowry culture exists and even there girl's parents provide it to the groom.

[suraj]

Come on dude you of all people should have been knowing this better . haq-e-meher is not sthg that groom's parent gives it's something which groom's side promises if and when marriage ends in divorce. It's kind of lump-sum alimony settlement in advance. Even amongst muslims dowry culture exists and even there girl's parents provide it to the groom.

That was my understanding too

[The Outsider]

Yeah, but the screwed up part is that Meher is usually a symbolic amount in most marriages like a 1 or 100 Rupee Bill and when there is actually a divorce the woman is left with no rights in the judiciary thanks to Rajeev Gandhi.

[The Outsider]

But shwetbah..can u elaborate more..dowry is disgusting in some cultures? first time I am hearing this

I meant that it's prevalance is disgusting in some cultures and castes, not that it's looked upon with disgust.

[Lurker]

Come on dude you of all people should have been knowing this better . haq-e-meher is not sthg that groom's parent gives it's something which groom's side promises if and when marriage ends in divorce. It's kind of lump-sum alimony settlement in advance. So technically speaking even hindus will have to provide haq-e-meher a sort of alimony if and when thigns end in divorce but that amount is decided later in court because hindus don't like to enter marriage thinking about divorce. So haq-e-meher is nothign but a pre-nuptual-agrrement Even amongst muslims dowry culture exists and even there girl's parents provide it to the groom.

The highlighted part is indeed correct but the follow-up is wrong. Yes it is a promise to pay a lumpsum money in case of divorce but it is not a pre-nupt agreement. I mean the latter is mostly about how one participant will not take anything from the other in a divorce. Hindus (for that matter any religion really) providing alimony is different than haq-e-mehar. In fact I am not even sure a concept like this exists in Hindu law? Unless you go the court to seek legal redressal I doubt Hindu law provides for this.

Yeah, but the screwed up part is that Meher is usually a symbolic amount in most marriages like a 1 or 100 Rupee Bill and when there is actually a divorce the woman is left with no rights in the judiciary thanks to Rajeev Gandhi.

I know of a Muslim family where-in the guy has fallen for this girl whose Dad is a bigwig in Pakistani politics. She has asked for a huge mehar (try 50 grand..in British pound). The guys sister are furious but the chap is well and truly in love. I must admit I found it funny the first time his sister told me this. 50 grand to get married? :giggle:

[veeru_rocks]

The highlighted part is indeed correct but the follow-up is wrong. Yes it is a promise to pay a lumpsum money in case of divorce but it is not a pre-nupt agreement. I mean the latter is mostly about how one participant will not take anything from the other in a divorce. Hindus (for that matter any religion really) providing alimony is different than haq-e-mehar. In fact I am not even sure a concept like this exists in Hindu law? Unless you go the court to seek legal redressal I doubt Hindu law provides for this. I know of a Muslim family where-in the guy has fallen for this girl whose Dad is a bigwig in Pakistani politics. She has asked for a huge mehar (try 50 grand..in British pound). The guys sister are furious but the chap is well and truly in love. I must admit I found it funny the first time his sister told me this. 50 grand to get married? :giggle:

Wake up buddy ipre-nup can be about anything whether not to take to how much to take.... all the big stars have this amoutn fixed all the time in their marriage.. It certainly is nothign but pre-nup-agreement to pay out certain amount at the time of divorce.. Guy should not be furious if he is not plannign to divorce her

[veeru_rocks]

Yeah' date=' but the screwed up part is that Meher is usually a symbolic amount in most marriages like a 1 or 100 Rupee Bill and when there is actually a divorce the woman is left with no rights in the judiciary thanks to Rajeev Gandhi.[/quote'] And coourt can;t even intervent if it involves muslims,, again thanks to no existannce of UCC

[Ram]

I am fine with individual people doing whatever they want. If a father of the bride deems it fit that he presents his son-in-law with a new Mercedes, that’s his own right. If a Mother of the groom wants to present her new daughter-in-law with a diamond necklace, why should anyone stop her? But it gets ugly when these exceptions become the norm. Its when people try to outdo each other when things get nasty. How is a typical Indian household that earns an average of 15,000-20,000 per month supposed to cough up 10 – 15 lakhs for their daughter’s wedding? And if there are than 2,3 ladies in a household, then the poor dad is condemned to a life of debt.

[Rajiv]

This whole Dowry thingy is disgusting, but thats nature's own way of bringing black money onto the open. :winky: Before, I used to be really appalled at all the money that was wasted in these useless ceremonies and practices of marriage. Then, I figured out that whenever a marriage happens (specifically a Hindu one), it generates tremendous economic activity and helps provide employment to 100s of people. So, in a way, marriage helps in the redistribtion of wealth from the haves to the have-nots and thats excellent! :yay: Of course, this system works perfectly if its only the wealthy people who have to spend. But, when such extravagant marriage ceremonies become the norm, even poor and lower middle class people are forced to borrow exorbitant sums of money to pay for the expenses and that’s really unfortunate. :((

Same for religious ceremonies..it rolls the economy like anything, ppl spend so in a way god ( or its creating helps )

[Ram]

Same for religious ceremonies..it rolls the economy like anything' date=' ppl spend so in a way god ( or its creating helps )[/quote'] Absolutely. I am pretty sure none of these ceremonies, which ever religion they belong to, have no real sense to them. It was just our ancestors’ way of keeping the economy rolling and making sure money is in circulation.

[veeru_rocks]

Absolutely. I am pretty sure none of these ceremonies' date=' which ever religion they belong to, have no real sense to them. It was just our ancestors’ way of keeping the economy rolling and making sure money is in circulation.[/quote'] I am nobody to comment on how it came into frutiton but one thing si sure the system works well We have brahmin panditjee's who come to do all kind of worship at our place.. all those guys are in utter penury at least the labourere class gets the job in field these people aren;t even hired for that. Reason being people have this mentality that brahmins in menial jobs is inauspicius to the faily fortune.. It's not that these poor souls do not want to work.. In addition to this nonsense of a mentality there is another nonsense where labourer class are organized and more often than not drive them out of the field.. Just recently in lucknow brahmins appeared for job in SULABH-Sauchalaya and they were driven out by traditional sulabh sauchalay workers of lower caset claiming it was there job and they can't allow ohers to cut in their business..... These karm-kandi poojari type brahmins economically are lowest of low yet they get clubbed together with landlord class and get no benefit.. ONly recourse they have left is to perform pooja in people's house and whatever dakshina they get earns them bread and salt.. Penurious state of brahmin is not by an accident it was by design. when Bhirgu Rishi devised this varna system in that brahmins were supposed to be mind of the state but they cud not own property lest they start exploiting the system... similarlry kashtriya were to have power but they had no say in policy ma,king that was brahmins job.. in this day and age that system got bastardized and now doesn;t exist and suddenly these poojari class find themselves in utter poverty with no recourse and nowhere to go.... So all those rutualistsic worships are must it keeps the ball rolling and puts food on someone;s table.. my mom ... No matetr what the dowry the level of ostentation accordingly makes sure everythign gets spent so in a way yes this is one way of bringing that black money to white market....... but those who have black money go ahead and take out double the amount they give away in dowry from the system again so am not sure how productive is this

[Deleted_User_1]

It is not corruption, it is called being fu**ked up. How can India be a progressive and economic giant with sh*t like this in the society. This dowry really makes me want to puke. Fortunately, I bypassed all of these by falling in love with a gori and getting married in front of a judge all by myself. :D

[Macj]

My son is a US citizen and much to the chagrin of my wife ive made it abundantly clear that he may marry anyone of his choosing. The way I see it, I chose to leave my native country to lead a life in this country, thus I too should totally immerse myself in the traditions and culture of this land. Forcing my son to marry a girl back in India will certainly lead him to question why he was born here rather than there ,had he been born there at least he would have had firmer roots and could associate closer to India. I think arranged marriage is close to dying, just imagine the untold stories of stoic marriages, sad and lonely lives that passed through over the thousand years of its existence.

[Deleted_User_1]

My son is a US citizen and much to the chagrin of my wife ive made it abundantly clear that he may marry anyone of his choosing. The way I see it, I chose to leave my native country to lead a life in this country, thus I too should totally immerse myself in the traditions and culture of this land. Forcing my son to marry a girl back in India will certainly lead him to question why he was born here rather than there ,had he been born there at least he would have had firmer roots and could associate closer to India. I think arranged marriage is close to dying, just imagine the untold stories of stoic marriages, sad and lonely lives that passed through over the thousand years of its existence.

Amen brother! I salute you for the decision. Arranged marriage is a sick concept (my sister is living proof of it) and the further we get away from it the better we will be socially.

[Rajiv]

While I can agree to the sentment of one should pick his/hers life partner, but arranged marriage concept is still very strong in India and its not necessarily unsuccessful. I am not sure if there is any global statistics and one can only speak from experiences, love marriages can go real flop as well Here is my concept of success rate Love Marriage = 25% Couple Living in Family( Ma, Pa and etc ) , 60/40 living by themselves Arranged Marriage = 75% Couple Living in Family, 50/50 when living by themselves - can go either way - understand or resent each other completely Love et Arranged = Can be 100% or 0% I am a divorcee, lasted 8 months in a love marriage - I though she was my soulmate - its a diff ball game when u sleep under the same roof, mixed with that is degree of compromise I feel I could have been much happier, and made others happy if I would have married the girl my folks picked. Last but not least, it also depends if you are the only child or living with siblings, your relationship with your parents...as picking the right girl ( only mentioning girl as the concept of woman moving to husbands place and changing surname is still a worldwide tradition ) can be the most important decision Tradition can be good, if its managed and compromise is required everywhere

[Deleted_User_1]

While I can agree to the sentment of one should pick his/hers life partner, but arranged marriage concept is still very strong in India and its not necessarily unsuccessful. I am not sure if there is any global statistics and one can only speak from experiences, love marriages can go real flop as well Here is my concept of success rate Love Marriage = 25% Couple Living in Family( Ma, Pa and etc ) , 60/40 living by themselves Arranged Marriage = 75% Couple Living in Family, 50/50 when living by themselves - can go either way - understand or resent each other completely Love et Arranged = Can be 100% or 0% I am a divorcee, lasted 8 months in a love marriage - I though she was my soulmate - its a diff ball game when u sleep under the same roof, mixed with that is degree of compromise I feel I could have been much happier, and made others happy if I would have married the girl my folks picked. Last but not least, it also depends if you are the only child or living with siblings, your relationship with your parents...as picking the right girl ( only mentioning girl as the concept of woman moving to husbands place and changing surname is still a worldwide tradition ) can be the most important decision Tradition can be good, if its managed and compromise is required everywhere

I am sorry about your divorce, but there is big difference in love vs. arranged. If your love marriage fails, at least you took the decision and it did not work (happens a lot in life). If it is arranged and it fails, you are the victim of someone's decision making, which ought to suck even more.

[Rajiv]

Well, yeah..your reason is the principle of Love v.s Arranged. Your reply revolves around blaming someone Exhibit A: Love Marriage - its your fault if it doesn't work Exhibit B: Arrange Marriage - its the parents fault So, in both cases, we are focusing on faults..tell me how comfortable is one to point their fingers at their parents, you would love to but can you really Honestly, people who marry who through Shaadi.com and other matrimonial websites..u think they TRULY fall in love after few exchanges and emails? You put yourself in the love seat and develop that special liking Also, if someone is working M-S 9-9 and there are many such folks in India like that, how would they meet someone? so arrange marriage is the way to go My point is that love marriage is not necessarily the answer to a happy marriage P.S My divorce was inevitable the way it was going, perhaps the luck of the draw and I know you recently found your soul mate to which I congratulate you

[fineleg]

^ Congrats d.roy. ===== Macj: If ur son is born and brought up here, you have made the right decision. Actually, even if he was born and brought up in India, it would be the right decision to allow the individual the right to choose their partner.