Isn't Ganguly an EXTREMELY OVERRATED captain ??

[patriot]

He took India to only 13 test victories, but captained India in 11 matches against minnows like Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. 11 of which should have been wins - none of the matches were rain interrupted. while we won all the Bangla matches...we could'nt even whitewash Zimbabwe - even at home. His own batting averaged was a pathetic 37.00 as captain, nor has he at any point of time shown any brilliant tactical ploy ( unless coming late for the toss against Waugh to frustrate him counts). We must have lost countless ODI finals under his captainship. DHoni IMHO, is far and away the greatest captain to have lead India in recent times. His batting avg( as captain) and captaincy record....is toooooooo good.

[punjabi_khota]

More than his on field performance, it was his "managerial" skills that made him so successful. Under his tenure, it was a new , more fearless team that learned to hold its own outside the subcontinent. His eye for talent, and his persistence with players he thought were going to be stars, is what set him apart. He backed Sehwag,Bhajji,UV,Zak and others, who have proved to be match winners time and again for India. Basically, everything that Dhoni is doing, Ganguly set the tone for it. There may/may-not be pre-Dhoni or post Dhoni era when we look back, but there will be pre-Gangs and post-Gangs era in the history of Indian cricket.

[Anakin]

I'm too blinded both by the tactical brilliance by Dhoni such as holding on to to his best player as late as possible in T20 matches and your understanding of cricket.

[patriot]

Anakin , if you yourself watched a bit of cricket, you would know that, thats how Warne got the best out of Yousuf Pathan ( if thats whom you are referring too) , by keeping him till the last 5-7 overs in both the IPLS. Its very easy to sit and criticize in hindsight.

[patriot]

..Kumble captained India in 2 out of the 4 matches against Aussies at home last year. we nearly lost the 1st one but scrapped a draw...and failed to force victory in another. Under Dhoni we won 2/2 with the same set of players.

[graphic23]

I'm too blinded both by the tactical brilliance by Dhoni such as holding on to to his best player as late as possible in T20 matches and your understanding of cricket.

Your blindness is hypocritical.

[Anakin]

Your blindness is hypocritical.

How so?

[vvvslaxman]

Ganguly had some pluses like he alongwith Wright eliminated India's over-dependence on one or two players. No Tendulkar No India theory gradually started melting. Partly due to the fact few Indian players reached their peak around the same time. He didn't really mind being critical of his own players with strong words inspite of possible ego clashes. Achievements 2000 ICC championship trophy final, 2002 championship trophy shared with SL, 2003 world cup final, first ever Test series win in Pakistan. On the minus side his batting suffered a lot towards the end. To gain some form he batted too slowly in few ODIs and in the process cost India few wins. India never won a ODI series at home except against zimbabwe in India., never won an abroad series except in Bangladesh , Pakistan and Zimbo. He was not the sharpest when it came to on field strategy. Pluses slightly outweight minuses. So he is definitely not "Extremely" over-rated. Probably slightly over-rated. But did better job with Indian cricket team than Azharuddin or Tendulkar who left Indian team in absolute shambles.

[patriot]

...Well said VVS. I get a feeling that his own pathetic form with the bat as captain..created a nuisance in the team and some sort of rift. He sat a senior bowler likeKumble out of test matches , where the Kumble could have probably played - this was at a time when he himself din't deserve to be in the side as a player. IN terms of results, dhoni is streets ahead, and may that remain.

[Gambit]

Simple case of only looking at the stats and not considering the context. Ganguly took over the reins when the soul of Indian cricket had been crippled and the fans left heart broken and betrayed. He captained a side that had had a very poor last decade and were considered kittens outside India. And his acceptance of captaincy wasn't a passive move where he nodded 'Jee sir' and played with the team the selectors gave him. He selected diamonds which still glitter in the Indian team today. The story of him fighting tooth and nail for Bhajji for the 2001 series is a well documented and oft repeated one. He brought Zaheer, Sehwag, Yuvraj and Bhajji into the team. He gave Sehwag his opening slot in ODIs and promoted him in tests,the results of which don't need to be stated. He had balls to drop a pathetic away from home Kumble(1990-2003) in tests. He led us to victories in Australia,England,Pakistan and West Indies and India won more tests under him away from home than they had managed in the last 30 years! He led us to a World Cup Final. And his parting gift to Indian Cricket was *drum roll* If there is anyone who changed the widely held perception of the Indian Cricket Team being meek lambs, it was Prince Sourav Ganguly.

[Dravid]

great post gambit its a shame that some ppl dont understand shyt and start yapping away about a legend..

[DomainK]

Ganguly had some pluses like he alongwith Wright eliminated India's over-dependence on one or two players. No Tendulkar No India theory gradually started melting. Partly due to the fact few Indian players reached their peak around the same time. He didn't really mind being critical of his own players with strong words inspite of possible ego clashes. Achievements 2000 ICC championship trophy final, 2002 championship trophy shared with SL, 2003 world cup final, first ever Test series win in Pakistan. On the minus side his batting suffered a lot towards the end. To gain some form he batted too slowly in few ODIs and in the process cost India few wins. India never won a ODI series at home except against zimbabwe in India., never won an abroad series except in Bangladesh , Pakistan and Zimbo. He was not the sharpest when it came to on field strategy. Pluses slightly outweight minuses. So he is definitely not "Extremely" over-rated. Probably slightly over-rated. But did better job with Indian cricket team than Azharuddin or Tendulkar who left Indian team in absolute shambles.

Simple case of only looking at the stats and not considering the context. Ganguly took over the reins when the soul of Indian cricket had been crippled and the fans left heart broken and betrayed. He captained a side that had had a very poor last decade and were considered kittens outside India. And his acceptance of captaincy wasn't a passive move where he nodded 'Jee sir' and played with the team the selectors gave him. He selected diamonds which still glitter in the Indian team today. The story of him fighting tooth and nail for Bhajji for the 2001 series is a well documented and oft repeated one. He brought Zaheer, Sehwag, Yuvraj and Bhajji into the team. He gave Sehwag his opening slot in ODIs and promoted him in tests,the results of which don't need to be stated. He had balls to drop a pathetic away from home Kumble(1990-2003) in tests. He led us to victories in Australia,England,Pakistan and West Indies and India won more tests under him away from home than they had managed in the last 30 years! He led us to a World Cup Final. And his parting gift to Indian Cricket was *drum roll* If there is anyone who changed the widely held perception of the Indian Cricket Team being meek lambs, it was Prince Sourav Ganguly.

Very good posts. :two_thumbs_up:

[patriot]

Simple case of only looking at the stats and not considering the context. Ganguly took over the reins when the soul of Indian cricket had been crippled and the fans left heart broken and betrayed. He captained a side that had had a very poor last decade and were considered kittens outside India. And his acceptance of captaincy wasn't a passive move where he nodded 'Jee sir' and played with the team the selectors gave him. He selected diamonds which still glitter in the Indian team today. The story of him fighting tooth and nail for Bhajji for the 2001 series is a well documented and oft repeated one. He brought Zaheer, Sehwag, Yuvraj and Bhajji into the team. He gave Sehwag his opening slot in ODIs and promoted him in tests,the results of which don't need to be stated. He had balls to drop a pathetic away from home Kumble(1990-2003) in tests. He led us to victories in Australia,England,Pakistan and West Indies and India won more tests under him away from home than they had managed in the last 30 years! He led us to a World Cup Final. And his parting gift to Indian Cricket was *drum roll* If there is anyone who changed the widely held perception of the Indian Cricket Team being meek lambs, it was Prince Sourav Ganguly.

Gambit ,i think thats going OTT, with giving undue credit. VVS i think makes a very balanced post. Ganguly was a captain not a selector - and captain is judged by results. Sure he had an eye for talent, but apart from backing Bhajji and coming up with the idea of making Sehwag open, I think other credit given is undue and false. Selectors chose Yuvraj ( for his debut at the 2000 ICC knockout) because he was standout at the under 19 WC prior to that and Zaheer, because he really impressed early on with his pace at the MRF academy. You can't ignore the fact that India never won a ODI series even at home except against zimbabwe in India., never won an abroad series except in Bangladesh , Pakistan and Zimbo. Why din't he produce results, if he had " selected " such jewels..or was his job limited to selection ? You can't ignore the fact that we remained a mid table or lower team ..throughout his captaincy in both the versions of the game. . I don't think thats better off than what we were under Azhar. we may have won zilch under azhar overseas...but we were far more dominant at home under Azhar, balancing it out. You can't ignore the fact that we lost some 20 finals ....( all bar the natwest trophy). Also giving him credit for improvement in India's overseas performance is AGAIN going OTT with undue credit. Dravid,TEndulkar and VVS three of India's most precious test batters...were at the peak of their test match batting prowess at that stage of their career. We were able to put BIG runs on the board overseas after along time ..and this gave our bowlers a chance, so we won some matches. Infact Ganguly's hanging about in the team as A NON PERFORMER..for a long time taking his place for granted did result in some discontent in the team ranks - As did his pulling out of matches...as and when he felt like - remember how he pulled out of the match against Aussies seeing the green pitch. He deserves credit , but he wasnt as great as he is made out to be.

[Anakin]

Simple case of only looking at the stats and not considering the context.

But numbers don't lie :haha:

[Sachinism]

You have to look at the situation of Indian cricket at the time he took over and the mindset of cricketers before Ganguly to understand the effect he had on the team

[Gambit]

Gambit ,i think thats going OTT, with giving undue credit. VVS i think makes a very balanced post. Ganguly was a captain not a selector - and captain is judged by results. Sure he had an eye for talent, but apart from backing Bhajji and coming up with the idea of making Sehwag open, I think other credit given is undue and false. Selectors chose Yuvraj ( for his debut at the 2000 ICC knockout) because he was standout at the under 19 WC prior to that and Zaheer, because he really impressed early on with his pace at the MRF academy.

You have to put the results into context. Everything is relative. Before Ganguly, we were utter $h1te away from home. Under him, we gave Australia's 'chin music' threat a fitting reply, led by a stunning 144 by Ganguly himself. He led us a series win in Pak where we had never even come close to winning a test. We won in Sri Lanka after an eon, as in the Windies. In England, we showed the world what balls we had by batting first on a typical English track and thrashing them. Ganguly gave us cojones. He gave us heart, passion and aggression. We become in your face. The brashness he gave to the team can be seen in Sehwag, Yuvi, Bhajji and Zak - all Dada's boys.

You can't ignore the fact that we remained a mid table or lower team ..throughout his captaincy in both the versions of the game. . I don't think thats better off than what we were under Azhar. we may have won zilch under azhar overseas...but we were far more dominant at home under Azhar, balancing it out.

I believe we reached the number 2 ranking in tests and ODI cricket under Ganguly. Probably a first since we become a test and ODI nation. We reached a world cup final after 20 years after everyone wrote us off. Regarding your comments about Dravid, VVS etc performing and Ganguly having nothing to do with those wins, well, then I guess the same can be said about Steve Waugh and Clive Lloyd. Like with Sachin, not all of Sourav's achiements and contributions are tangible. Both have given Indian Cricket much more than mere numbers. If Sachin was the heartbeat of the nation, Sourav was the adrenalin that drove Team India to achieve the impossible.

[Mr. Wicket]

The effect of Ganguly, in terms of how he changed the team's mentality, approach to series overseas, self-belief and confidence against teams where we'd go in as underdogs in the past, and selection methods by fighting for youngsters regardless of states/regions/selectors' quotas, is impossible to put into words. Gambit's tried. But words, even prose as eloquent and incisive as Dhondy's, or the best rankings and stats models, are never going to come close to explaining what he's done for Indian cricket. Those of us who watched this team in the 1990s where each overseas tour was accompanied by doomsday predictions and hopes of just one competitive match - maybe even a WIN! - and saw idiotic selections and gutless wonders like Vikram Rathour, Dodda Ganesh and Vijay Bharadwaj shatter hopes each game will know just how much Ganguly's done for this team as a leader. Hats off, Gangu. :adore:

[Show_stopper]

Ganguly was an exceptional motivator...he gave the team a backbone. Dhoni, i think merely has a better team to work with. I wouldn't rate both of them very high tactically..which is not to say they aren't competant. IMHO Dhoni's strong-point is his ability to shied the new players from pressure.

[bobbydhillon]

Anakin , if you yourself watched a bit of cricket, you would know that, thats how Warne got the best out of Yousuf Pathan ( if thats whom you are referring too) , by keeping him till the last 5-7 overs in both the IPLS. Its very easy to sit and criticize in hindsight.

i thin k he was talkin bout yuvi not pathan but u never know

[Anakin]

i thin k he was talkin bout yuvi not pathan but u never know

Yes UV