Ricky Ponting LORDS over the rest.

[patriot]

LULzers. Conceded what point? Fact is Ponting is essentially a home bully as evidenced by his 67 avg at home and a mere 50 away. I use the term 'mere' because it's a full 9 run less than what SRT avged away from home in the 90s against non-minnows when the pitches were baaps of what they are today. And despite Juari being at his peak, he averages just 2 runs more than SRT away from home this decade. Simple as. And don't get me wrong. I am a big Ponting fan and have defended him in the past here. But he has not quite turned out to be the machine everyone thought he would become when he was plundering runs between OT 2005 and end 2007. He's had a below par 2007, decent 2008 and average 2009 thus far. Just 5 tons in his last 26 tests against non-minnows. As a comparison, SRT has 5 in his last 16 against non-minnows.

LUZOLLA !!!!!! I don't know what we are trying to prove here with selective stats. You are the probably the first person in the world to label Juari a home bully when he averages a credible 50+ away from home..LOL. What would that make Brian Lara who also has a similarly" skewed" record ( away avg of a mere 47) If this were a non-Indian forum ..I would have probably made arguments like you backing SRT ...like I did on C4 forums as Chandan would testify - bottom line is these don't add up to prove anything but the fact that Ponting has been quite exceptionally remarkable - taking nothing away from SRT. Ponting has had a rough season or 2 before which for 5 odd years ( 2003-2007) he has been in a league of his own - just like SRT was for the period 96-98. Its funny that you have unsuccessfully tried to duck something that you claimed to swear by - 4th innings average - Ponting ( 53.26) is clearly a country mile ahead of 2 of his greatest contemporaries Lara ( 35) and SRT ( 36 ) .- Kya kahenge Munnabhai ? :(( I am no Ponting fan as a person. He's one of the most distasteful, obnoxious mofos - but I truely and grudgingly admire his abilities and the mountain of runs he has scored - all at an attacking pace - no one can despute that since 2000 - Ponting has been in a league of his own. As an Indian I truely hope SRT ( our only serious contender) keeps him at bay,as far as these 2 records are concerned: 1) Highest # test tons 2) Maximum test runs.

[braguvaran]

Am a great fan of ponting and i ve seen countless discussion of ponting vs sachin and this one is also turning that way... From ma point of view.. Ponting > Sachin for sure... Sachin has been playin for 20 years now for gods sake!!!! and Ponting debued after 6-7 years in test cricket.... and to have come this close to sachin;s total is an amazing feat!!!!which sachin can neva dream of.... But its for only fate to decide as in who would finish with the highest amount of runs... And ponting can do it comfortably if sachin can stop playin for records and starts to play for his country!!!!

[Gambit]

Just saw this post.

LUZOLLA !!!!!! I don't know what we are trying to prove here with selective stats. You are the probably the first person in the world to label Juari a home bully when he averages a credible 50+ away from home..LOL. What would that make Brian Lara who also has a similarly" skewed" record ( away avg of a mere 47)

I said this - ' Fact is Ponting is essentially a home bully as evidenced by his 67 avg at home and a mere 50 away. I use the term 'mere' because it's a full 9 run less than what SRT avged away from home in the 90s against non-minnows when the pitches were baaps of what they are today. And despite Juari being at his peak, he averages just 2 runs more than SRT away from home this decade. ' I was speaking in relative terms when compared to Tendulkar's outstanding decade(90s) and Pontings(2000).

If this were a non-Indian forum ..I would have probably made arguments like you backing SRT ...like I did on C4 forums as Chandan would testify - bottom line is these don't add up to prove anything but the fact that Ponting has been quite exceptionally remarkable - taking nothing away from SRT. Ponting has had a rough season or 2 before which for 5 odd years ( 2003-2007) he has been in a league of his own - just like SRT was for the period 96-98.

Umm, Tendulkar's period wasn't just 96-98. It was the entire 90s because - - Only 3 batsmen, who played more than 20 tests, (SRW,BCL and Gooch) other than him averaged over 50. - Only he averaged over 55. - His away average of 59 was the highest among them. The 50s were a very exclusive club in the 90s. Ponting is in no such league of his own this decade as much as you would love him to be. Yousuf averages more than him, 15+ batsmen average over 50 this decade, many of them with much better away records.

Its funny that you have unsuccessfully tried to duck something that you claimed to swear by - 4th innings average - Ponting ( 53.26) is clearly a country mile ahead of 2 of his greatest contemporaries Lara ( 35) and SRT ( 36 ) .- Kya kahenge Munnabhai ? :((

Ponting's a much better performer in the 4th innings than Tendulkar. Show me where I've denied that. But that does not mean Tendulkar hasn't played outstanding knocks in the 4th innings. Tendulkar's 4th innings average is still a decent 37 unlike a certain taklu's. :winky:

[goose]

Am a great fan of ponting and i ve seen countless discussion of ponting vs sachin and this one is also turning that way... From ma point of view.. Ponting > Sachin for sure... Sachin has been playin for 20 years now for gods sake!!!! and Ponting debued after 6-7 years in test cricket.... and to have come this close to sachin;s total is an amazing feat!!!!which sachin can neva dream of.... But its for only fate to decide as in who would finish with the highest amount of runs... And ponting can do it comfortably if sachin can stop playin for records and starts to play for his country!!!!

Another Ponting > Tendulkar post...another barrage of stats and numbers. Yawn.....

[braguvaran]

Another Ponting > Tendulkar post...another barrage of stats and numbers. Yawn.....

try again with a better reply later

[goose]

4-ufa4Wjqmc

[patriot]

Just saw this post. I said this - ' Fact is Ponting is essentially a home bully as evidenced by his 67 avg at home and a mere 50 away. I use the term 'mere' because it's a full 9 run less than what SRT avged away from home in the 90s against non-minnows when the pitches were baaps of what they are today. And despite Juari being at his peak, he averages just 2 runs more than SRT away from home this decade. ' I was speaking in relative terms when compared to Tendulkar's outstanding decade(90s) and Pontings(2000).

LOL..so now AWAY average in the 90's has become the sole benchmark . :hysterical:. SRT is then a 4th innings "choker", with an average of 36. I use the word choker because Ponting averages a 53 - a staggering 17 runs more than SRT. And I assume you know that 4th innings pitches have always been the baaps of 1st and 2nd innings pitches.:winky:

Umm, Tendulkar's period wasn't just 96-98. It was the entire 90s because - - Only 3 batsmen, who played more than 20 tests, (SRW,BCL and Gooch) other than him averaged over 50. - Only he averaged over 55. - His away average of 59 was the highest among them.

LOL...another lie. SRW averaged 57.85 in the AWAY in the 90's( your latest benchmark..LOL), SRT averaged 56.56, not 59. SRW http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+Dec+1999;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting SRT http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+Dec+1999;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Ponting's a much better performer in the 4th innings than Tendulkar. Show me where I've denied that. But that does not mean Tendulkar hasn't played outstanding knocks in the 4th innings. Tendulkar's 4th innings average is still a decent 37 unlike a certain taklu's. :winky:

You are right, dost - Ponting is truely a much superior performer than SRT on tricky 4th innings pitches - a difference of 17 runs is humongous. No one is saying SRT has'nt playeda handful of outstanding knocks in the 4th innings - but so has our daredevil " taklu" . Like the 150 odd inthe 4th innings in Adelaide to save the test for India - or toying with the England swing bowling, launching such an audacious attack on Pommies on the 4th innings of a test -almost making it appear like a T20 slogfest , setting the game up for the the little choker who would have otherwise meekly surrendered as usual to this record ( 387) target on INdian pitches - just like he did in the 2003 WC chasing a record target.:winky:. Actually if you look carefully at the stat above, 90's decade, SRT in as many innings as the "taklu" has played yet, has the exact average same " pathetic" 4th innings average of 30 odd.:winky:. The same " taklu" who scored 2 tons in conditions in NZ where batsmen on either side struggled to reached double figures and the little man made Toffee, Oram an co ..seem like Hsdlee, Lilllee and Co.:winky:. The same " taklu" who is in the elite company of just 2 more men - Bradman and Lara for a record thats based on pure class and not one that accumalates as a function of playing a record number of games. I wish we had a few more such " taklus".

[goose]

Do you think Micheal Clarke is a great player?

[The Outsider]

Ponting's 4th innings average is misleading. Of course, people warped in numbers without context will not see it : 1. Ponting has played a majority of his tests at home on the Australian flatbeds, a lot of which don't show any great wear and tear even in the fourth innings. The Aussie dominance has meant that a lot of those fourth innings were not played on 5th day tracks anyways. 2. He has been involved in a huge number of soft chases thanks to the strong team he was a part of. Chasing 150 runs in the fourth innings with the likes of Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Waughs, Hussey etc. etc. in the line up on true tracks is hardly a pressure situation or a challenge. On the occasions he has played in the fourth innings in India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and West Indies places where tracks deteriote the most here are his numbers : http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7133.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=4;host=6;host=7;host=8;innings_number=4;orderby=start;template=results;type=batting;view=innings He averages 13! Relaxing that to include the 3rd and 4th innings in these countries : http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7133.html?class=1;filter=advanced;host=4;host=6;host=7;host=8;innings_number=3;innings_number=4;orderby=start;template=results;type=batting;view=innings An average of 23 with a highest score of 51 in 22 innings! His overall average is high because he has played so many home games and has a much better home average than away. He does not even average 50 away from home, much like though not as much of a home track bully as Hayden who struggled to average 40 away from Australian flatbeds and familiar environments. There is obivously no need to even get talking about his pathetic average of 20 in India which even the blinkered OP has acknowledged. When you have done as poorly as Ponting has in the only country which put up a fight against his team on a consistent basis, at best he can be one of the modern greats alongside the likes of Dravid, Kallis, and Sangakkara but you can leave the all time greatness tag for the likes of Tendulkar and Lara to shoulder.

[satishg]

Every single piece i've ever read eulogizing Ponting is riddled with numbers and statistics. Ponting has great numbers. Tendulkar is a great batsman.

this post should have answered Mr.Patriots queries or arguments, but since he dint understand what exactly has been mentioned in the above post i dont think anything else would ever make him understand the difference between an "all-time" genius and a "modern-era" great!!

[Mr. Wicket]

There are some people who immediately draw a conclusion and then pick and choose/manipulate statistics while taking away the relevance and context behind the numbers to give themselves further proof they're right. This thread is a great example of that.

[Guest gaurav_indian]

LOL..so now AWAY average in the 90's has become the sole benchmark . :hysterical:. SRT is then a 4th innings "choker"' date= with an average of 36. I use the word choker because Ponting averages a 53 - a staggering 17 runs more than SRT. And I assume you know that 4th innings pitches have always been the baaps of 1st and 2nd innings pitches.:winky:

Ponting's record in India and Sachin's record in Australia tells who is the asli baap of all the pitches. There was a time when the whole indian batting line up was dependent on Sachin alone. While ponting always had batsman like Taylor, Waugh brothers, Hayden, Martyn,Gilly around him so there was no pressure on him in the 4th innings. Lara and Sachin both are way above Mr Ponting thats my opinion. No offence. 1.) Sachin 2.) Lara 3.) Ponting/Inzimam/Dravid

[patriot]

Ponting's 4th innings average is misleading. Of course, people warped in numbers without context will not see it : 1. Ponting has played a majority of his tests at home on the Australian flatbeds, a lot of which don't show any great wear and tear even in the fourth innings. The Aussie dominance has meant that a lot of those fourth innings were not played on 5th day tracks anyways. 2. He has been involved in a huge number of soft chases thanks to the strong team he was a part of. Chasing 150 runs in the fourth innings with the likes of Hayden, Langer, Martyn, Waughs, Hussey etc. etc. in the line up on true tracks is hardly a pressure situation or a challenge. On the occasions he has played in the fourth innings in India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan, and West Indies places where tracks deteriote the most here are his numbers :

That is absolutely factually incorrect - If you are telling me Pakistan and West Indian pitches have recently " deteriorated" more than Aussie pitches. Pak and WI pitches over the decade have been the biggest patta wickets. It just seems to be an opportunistic argument that is nothing but false. If he were involved in soft chases - he would'nt have rattled up more ton(s) and runs inspite playing 10 innings less than SRT.

He does not even average 50 away from home, much like though not as much of a home track bully as Hayden who struggled to average 40 away from Australian flatbeds and familiar environments.

Actually if you take out SRT's King Loius II feast against in Bangladesh - 3 tons and as many not outs in some 4 matches, he doesn't average much better away than Ponting.( about 2 pts).

There is obivously no need to even get talking about his pathetic average of 20 in India which even the blinkered OP has acknowledged. When you have done as poorly as Ponting has in the only country which put up a fight against his team on a consistent basis, at best he can be one of the modern greats alongside the likes of Dravid, Kallis, and Sangakkara but you can leave the all time greatness tag for the likes of Tendulkar and Lara to shoulder.

Then again - you are plainly being opportunistic to defend SRT. Would you also deny Warne his undoubted all time greatness because his record too against India is not out of the top drawer ? Sure Ponting hasn't had a good time in India - but he averages almost 55 in Sri Lanka with 2 tons in 7 matches - and Sri Lanka's pitches with Murali & co. are as much or more a poor spin players graveyard as India. Sri lanka's home record ( W/L ) is also better than ours. Believe me, this requires no manipulation whatsoever. How many times since 2000 ( since when SRT has played nearly 60% of his cricket) , has he been the top rated ICC batsmen ? Ok, top 3 ? Or top 5 ? Last 7 yrs or so, it becomes news when he breaks in the top 10. Has he ever evoked the fear of taking away the game by the scruff of the neck like Viv Richards or like Veeru these days ? Oh but he is SRT, so he is great, #s , ICC ratings, objective analysis don't matter- he is above everything. As unlikeable , uncouth and ugly Ponting may be with his win at all costs attitude - he has been an absolute champion - not less than equal of SRT, in his career.

[The Outsider]

Ponting's 4th innings centuries : 1. http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63979.html Patta wicket where scores got progressively higher in each innings of the match 2. http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/215686.html Genuinely superb effort 3. http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226373.html Patta track where opposing captain was forced to make declaration because of rain 4. http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/238171.html Bangladesh - enough said Tendulkar's 4th innings centuries : 1. http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63535.html His first test century at age 17, not a very challenging attack but an up and down wicket. 2. http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63828.html http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63828.html Against Akram, Waqar, Saqlain on a turning wicket and reverse swinging conditions. 3. http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/361050.html Typical Indian fifth day turner.

[The Outsider]

That is absolutely factually incorrect - If you are telling me Pakistan and West Indian pitches have recently " deteriorated" more than Aussie pitches. Pak and WI pitches over the decade have been the biggest patta wickets. It just seems to be an opportunistic argument that is nothing but false.

Don't think Ponting has played anything in Pakistan this decade anyways and WI pitches have definitely been more up and down than the typical Aussie wicket, specially the likes of Sydney where Waugh saved a defeat against us or where Ponting made the 140 odd against South Africa.

If he were involved in soft chases - he would'nt have rattled up more ton(s) and runs inspite playing 10 innings less than SRT.

Why not? What's the correlation? Isn't it a fact that Australia has chased smallish targets in the 4th innings on more occasions than India on flatter pitches and with a stronger batting line up?

Actually if you take out SRT's King Loius II feast against in Bangladesh - 3 tons and as many not outs in some 4 matches, he doesn't average much better away than Ponting.( about 2 pts).

Ponting away without Bangladesh - 48.xx Tendulkar away without Bangladesh - 51.xx

Then again - you are plainly being opportunistic to defend SRT. Would you also deny Warne his undoubted all time greatness because his record too against India is not out of the top drawer ?

Yeah and questions are asked about Warne because of that? Not so much by the English media, but tell me if an Indian batsman was averaging 20 in Australia would he have been considered an all time great? Is Inzamam considered even close to being an all time great?

Sure Ponting hasn't had a good time in India - but he averages almost 55 in Sri Lanka with 2 tons in 7 matches - and Sri Lanka's pitches with Murali & co. are as much or more a poor spin players graveyard as India. Sri lanka's home record ( W/L ) is also better than ours.

Who cares? Sri Lankan wickets are a lot different from Indian wickets. Indian tracks have more up and down on it while Sri Lankan tracks turn more. Different skills required to succeed. Nothing shows this more than the average records Indian spinners have in Sri Lanka and vice versa.

Believe me, this requires no manipulation whatsoever. How many times since 2000 ( since when SRT has played nearly 60% of his cricket) , has he been the top rated ICC batsmen ? Ok, top 3 ? Or top 5 ? Last 7 yrs or so, it becomes news when he breaks in the top 10.

Not many times. He ruled the ratings at one time, Ponting at another time.

Has he ever evoked the fear of taking away the game by the scruff of the neck like Viv Richards or like Veeru these days ? Oh but he is SRT, so he is great, #s , ICC ratings, objective analysis don't matter- he is above everything. As unlikeable , uncouth and ugly Ponting may be with his win at all costs attitude - he has been an absolute champion - not less than equal of SRT, in his career.

On a track with something in it, I can bet the most coveted wicket for the opposition in the Indian team would be Tendulkar's, 20 years after his debut.

[patriot]

Don't think Ponting has played anything in Pakistan this decade anyways and WI pitches have definitely been more up and down than the typical Aussie wicket' date=' specially the likes of Sydney where Waugh saved a defeat against us or where Ponting made the 140 odd against South Africa. [/quote'] With all due respect Sire, it was you who bought up-Ponting in Pakistan. Aussie wickets have ALWAYS had something for the fast bowlers even as they have " relatively " eased out on 5th day over the last 5 years or so - WI wickets unquestionably in places like Antigua and Trinidad ..( someother place I can't recollect) have been dead as dodos.

Why not? What's the correlation? Isn't it a fact that Australia has chased smallish targets in the 4th innings on more occasions than India on flatter pitches and with a stronger batting line up?

That's not the point, boss. Australia have definately chased smallish targets in the 4th innings more often than India. But what has prevented SRT from scoring lesser runs inspite playing 10 more 4th innings ????

Ponting away without Bangladesh - 48.xx Tendulkar away without Bangladesh - 51.xx

And Ponting @ home 60.XX and SRT@ home 54.XX. So your point is ?

Yeah and questions are asked about Warne because of that? Not so much by the English media, but tell me if an Indian batsman was averaging 20 in Australia would he have been considered an all time great? Is Inzamam considered even close to being an all time great?

INzamam has an abysmal record in RSA as well. Though Imran Khan has labelled him as the best player of phassst bowling since Viv Richards. But as you can excuse greats Warne and Lillee ( for their poor records in India and Pak respectively) and Murali for his pathetic record in Australia - Ponting should not be made an exception for his poor record in one country.

Who cares? Sri Lankan wickets are a lot different from Indian wickets. Indian tracks have more up and down on it while Sri Lankan tracks turn more. Different skills required to succeed. Nothing shows this more than the average records Indian spinners have in Sri Lanka and vice versa.

But the " up and down" nature in India happens as the game progresses - Ponting has failed irrespective even in the 1st innings/2nd innings when batting conditions are as good as anywhere in the world. This is an aberration which we both agree on.

He ruled the ratings at one time, Ponting at another time.

Agree 100 % .

On a track with something in it, I can bet the most coveted wicket for the opposition in the Indian team would be Tendulkar's, 20 years after his debut.

Disagree. SRT in the 90's and Dravid in the 2000's

[Gambit]

LOL..so now AWAY average in the 90's has become the sole benchmark . :hysterical:. SRT is then a 4th innings "choker"' date= with an average of 36. I use the word choker because Ponting averages a 53 - a staggering 17 runs more than SRT. And I assume you know that 4th innings pitches have always been the baaps of 1st and 2nd innings pitches.:winky:

I never said it was the 'sole' benchmark. But the away batting avg is a fairly important batting stat(which you have also repeatedly stated when decrying the likes of Mahela and MoYoYo) and my contention for the nth time was that SRT away from home in 90s >>>>> Punter away from home in 00s. AND SRT away in 00s is marginally lower than Punter in 00s. So despite Punter at his peak this decade, he's only a little ahead of SRT in performances away from home.

LOL...another lie. SRW averaged 57.85 in the AWAY in the 90's( your latest benchmark..LOL), SRT averaged 56.56, not 59. SRW http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8192.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+Dec+1999;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting SRT http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmax1=31+Dec+1999;spanmin1=01+Jan+1990;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

Err bhratashri, kripya yeh dekhen - Those are stats without including minnows. http://tinyurl.com/pr7pye Tendulkar's average - a stunning 59.03 SRW - 55 :cantstop: http://tinyurl.com/pcyv3r So much for your 'lie' accusation. Serious egg on face :hysterical:

You are right, dost - Ponting is truely a much superior performer than SRT on tricky 4th innings pitches - a difference of 17 runs is humongous. No one is saying SRT has'nt playeda handful of outstanding knocks in the 4th innings - but so has our daredevil " taklu" . Like the 150 odd inthe 4th innings in Adelaide to save the test for India - or toying with the England swing bowling, launching such an audacious attack on Pommies on the 4th innings of a test -almost making it appear like a T20 slogfest , setting the game up for the the little choker who would have otherwise meekly surrendered as usual to this record ( 387) target on INdian pitches - just like he did in the 2003 WC chasing a record target.:winky:. Actually if you look carefully at the stat above, 90's decade, SRT in as many innings as the "taklu" has played yet, has the exact average same " pathetic" 4th innings average of 30 odd.:winky:.

Taklu's oustanding 151 wasn't in the 4th innings. :winky: Like I said earlier, his 80 odd v England was terrific but he didn't finish the game and ran away(hey, I am using the same token SRT critics used for his sterling knocks in the 90s). :winky:

The same " taklu" who scored 2 tons in conditions in NZ where batsmen on either side struggled to reached double figures and the little man made Toffee, Oram an co ..seem like Hsdlee, Lilllee and Co.:winky:.

And what was his average in the test matches? An epic 10 :hysterical:

[patriot]

I never said it was the 'sole' benchmark. But the away batting avg is a fairly important batting stat(which you have also repeatedly stated when decrying the likes of Mahela and MoYoYo) and my contention for the nth time was that SRT away from home in 90s >>>>> Punter away from home in 00s. AND SRT away in 00s is marginally lower than Punter in 00s. So despite Punter at his peak this decade' date=' he's only a little ahead of SRT in performances away from home. [/quote'] 4th innings is as important jyest brahtahshri- and Punter truely lords over SRT in 4th innings stakes.:winky:

Err bhratashri, kripya yeh dekhen - Those are stats without including minnows. http://tinyurl.com/pr7pye Tendulkar's average - a stunning 59.03 SRW - 55 :cantstop: http://tinyurl.com/pcyv3r So much for your 'lie' accusation. Serious egg on face :hysterical:

Luzzolla !!! How cleverly Gambo bhai is trying to exclude Zimbabwe from the away records in the 90s.:orderorder:. There were no true minnows in the 90's.Zimbabwe team then, was the best they had in their history. We had never won a test in Zimbabwe let alone a series - Zim had also beaten cornered donkeys AWAY. Eddo Brandes and Heath Streak gave the little man a tough time on the spongy bounce wickets of Bulawayo and Harare - so don't you dare exclude that. . Purely on AWAY averages tu jhootha saabit hota hai.:haha:

And what was his average in the test matches? An epic 10 :hysterical:

Kissi mein toh achha kiya. The little man was a disaster in both forms.:hmmmm2:

[The Outsider]

With all due respect Sire, it was you who bought up-Ponting in Pakistan. Aussie wickets have ALWAYS had something for the fast bowlers even as they have " relatively " eased out on 5th day over the last 5 years or so - WI wickets unquestionably in places like Antigua and Trinidad ..( someother place I can't recollect) have been dead as dodos.

It was a general statement. IIRC, Ponting has played only 1 test in Pakistan so those pathetic 4th and 3rd innings averages at places which are most difficult to bat on in the latter stages of a match still tells a story. Does Ponting have a Lara 153 or a Tendulkar 136 in the 4th innings which needs no qualification? No.

That's not the point, boss. Australia have definately chased smallish targets in the 4th innings more often than India. But what has prevented SRT from scoring lesser runs inspite playing 10 more 4th innings ????

Boss, it's pretty simple if you think it through. On flattish tracks chasing modest totals with a strong batting line up to support you, you are more likely to get that 50* to boost up your average. On the other hand if you are set a target of 350-400 on a misbehaving pitch you are more likely to fail. Just look up how Ponting has done in these kind of situations.

And Ponting @ home 60.XX and SRT@ home 54.XX. So your point is ?

Not difficult to explain for a few reasons. Ponting has batted in pressure free situations at home given the strength of his side on easier tracks to bat on. Even Tendulkar, not an Aussie native, against a much much better attack has averaged close to 60 in Australia. And for that matter it is more important from a team's perspective to perform away from home. Home performers are dime and dozen, it takes something special to shine in alien conditions.

INzamam has an abysmal record in RSA as well. Though Imran Khan has labelled him as the best player of phassst bowling since Viv Richards. But as you can excuse greats Warne and Lillee ( for their poor records in India and Pak respectively) and Murali for his pathetic record in Australia - Ponting should not be made an exception for his poor record in one country.

But Lara and Tendulkar do not have any such gaping whole, so why should they not be considered in a different league from juwari(thanks Gambit), as far as batting is concerned.

But the " up and down" nature in India happens as the game progresses - Ponting has failed irrespective even in the 1st innings/2nd innings when batting conditions are as good as anywhere in the world. This is an aberration which we both agree on.

His mind goes under siege in India - close in fielders, the cauldron atmosphere, spinners twirling it in their hands. At some point up and down stops mattering because he cannot overcome even his mental demons. Is it any surprise that his only century in India came on an Aussie like wicket. And in the recent tour, he was found wanting against reverse swing as well.

Disagree. SRT in the 90's and Dravid in the 2000's

Perhaps for around 5 years or so between '03-'07.

[The Outsider]

4th innings is as important jyest brahtahshri- and Punter truely lords over SRT in 4th innings stakes.:winky:

Oh please, I've already shown how messed up that idea is.