Kriterion Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 as purely a bowler, sakib averaged under 25 with little support from anyone else against some pretty good sides, home and away. since he's an all-rounder its like a specialist bowler averaging 30+ without the help of not outs. again, one of his best knocks came against a murali led attack (minus mendis) on a 4th innings subcontinental wicket. so its not that he's merely bashed joe shmoe around. had his parents named him ishant at birth, and his bowling average been 10 points poorer he would have been regarded as the best thing since toilet bowl freshner in a dubai bathroom. alas, his true value lies somewhere in between the extremes you find here and on banglacricket. Link to comment
kabira Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 ^totally unneccesary post. No one ever doubted his ability and record. Just that he won the award ahead of Smith is beyond me. Link to comment
Pak_Forever Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 Bravoo Shakib! Lad has easily been among the best players for last 2 year. Its a much deserving award for bailing Bangladesh out countless number of times. Link to comment
zubinpepsi Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 haha nice to see bangles boys getting their panties in twist trying to defend shakib... Link to comment
DomainK Posted October 8, 2009 Share Posted October 8, 2009 as purely a bowler, sakib averaged under 25 with little support from anyone else against some pretty good sides, home and away. since he's an all-rounder its like a specialist bowler averaging 30+ without the help of not outs. again, one of his best knocks came against a murali led attack (minus mendis) on a 4th innings subcontinental wicket. so its not that he's merely bashed joe shmoe around. had his parents named him ishant at birth, and his bowling average been 10 points poorer he would have been regarded as the best thing since toilet bowl freshner in a dubai bathroom. alas, his true value lies somewhere in between the extremes you find here and on banglacricket. Seems you have not been reading posts on Ishant in this forum lately? Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 This is the list of Wisden awards for each year. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisden_Cricketers_of_the_Year I also wondered like this in the past. But unlike ICC awards they have certain critierias. As long as he met their critieria we should just appreciate and move on. He is playing for a crap team that has lost 95% of the matches in all formats against top teams. So i think it is a good motivating force for him. Link to comment
graphic23 Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Ignoring the recent WI series for Bangladesh, Shakib's series batting averages are as follows: vs. NZ in NZ [07/08]: 1 2 1 46 41* 46.00 116 39.65 vs. SA in BD [07/08]: 2 4 0 75 40 18.75 198 37.87 vs. NZ in BD [08/09]: 2 3 0 125 71 41.66 256 48.82 vs. SA in SA [08/09]: 2 4 0 46 30 11.50 47 97.87 vs. SL in BD [08/09]: 2 4 0 168 96 42.00 307 54.72 Thats not terrible, and understandably, he failed vs. SA in SA. Against the New Zealand and Sri Lankan attacks, his average is not terrible for someone who comes lower down the order. Bowling averages (in the same order) 1 1 19.0 7 44 2 2/44 2/44 22.00 2.31 57.0 2 3 42.0 10 122 1 1/68 1/68 122.00 2.90 252.0 2 4 95.4 30 178 10 7/36 9/115 17.80 1.86 57.4 2 2 66.0 7 229 11 6/99 6/99 20.81 3.46 36.0 2 4 118.4 22 392 11 5/70 6/204 35.63 3.30 64.7 4th line (vs. SA in SA), average of 20.81 with Econ of 3.46 and S/R 36.0 is rather remarkable. vs. NZ, he has seen a good amount of success as well. Compared to his teammates, he has performed rather incredibly. Does that mean that as an individual (i.e. compared to the world player pool), he deserves the award? I am not totally sure. I've seen him play, and he's definitely a huge improvement in talent and commitment over the other Bangladesh players. Perhaps, that is why he got the award. Whatever it is, I hope it helps them focus more on their first class batting , and perhaps they can become a competitive unit in the near future. Link to comment
Kriterion Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 ^totally unneccesary post. No one ever doubted his ability and record. Just that he won the award ahead of Smith is beyond me. correction: domaink, sachinism, andy_cul89, virurulz, and original copy seemed to either doubt his ability, question the award, or both. i'm guessing you can also be added to that cateogry. in contrast, the neutrals can be considered as vvslaxman (usually staunchly anti-BD), jusarrived, and bradman99 the "pro" crowd are riasat, jfgp_1, Pak_forever, and possibly myself. domaink goes so far as to claim that BD fans will strike comparisons to tendulkar, despite the fact that shakib is not a specialist batsmen, is a lefty, and doesn't bear any other resemblence to the little master. further, domaink makes a completely uncorroborated statement (at the time of his statement) about this absurd comparison. as of now, running a search on BC's shakib thread, there are only 2 posts which mention tendulkar, and both are instances where tendulkar's name was quoted in an article. neither shakib, tendy, nor any fans made any such comparison or contrast. BD fans have, however, noticed the distinct lack of attention cricinfo has given to this, with a possibility that since wisden hasn't published it yet, cricinfo has kept quiet. they have however seemed to notice the generalized skepticism coming from the indian cricketing community. haha nice to see bangles boys getting their panties in twist trying to defend shakib... honestly, i was more surprised to see shakib win this award, and somewhat less surprised to see him on the ICC team of the year. i don't believe shakib is the best test player of 2009. i do however believe he is the best all-rounder in the game, at the moment. i do also believe that the "weak" opposition argument is baseless. i also believe that the true picture of shakib's ability as a cricketer is somewhere between the dismissive extreme found here at ICF and the jestfully hyperbolic extreme likely to be found in Bangladesh. Seems you have not been reading posts on Ishant in this forum lately? i have, ishant is a player i follow quite closely, in fact i follow all the indian players closely. my observation is not based on fan reaction or support to ishant sharma 2009, but rather to ishant sharma 2008. he was hyped to no end pretty much for making Ponting hop around a bit, despite averaging over 60 with the ball in that series. shakib who has picked up 5-fers against NZ, SL, and SA in both Bangladesh and in South Africa - all of them in the first or second innings, btw - and hit 50s against those teams, while maintaining a bowling average south of 25, is dimissed totally by most posters on this thread. even accounting for national biases, this does not seem fair. thats all i'm trying to point out, and i know full well that this post probably won't change any hearts and minds. but then again, delving into semantics, maybe Wisden Cricketer is right. they've named sakib the best "player" of the year. not the best batsmen (which he's not even close), or the best bowler (which he is pretty close to), or the best fielder, or the best captain. they named him the best player, which he might just be. he's a decent batsmen, one of the best on his team, he's a superb bowler, he's a great fielder, and did a so-so job captaining a young team. so maybe, based on the wording he is the best player or cricketer around. ghambir is a better batsmen, very few are better bowlers (steyn, murali, johnson perhaps), and a few are better fielders. but combined he beats pretty much anyone i can think of. Link to comment
kalpurush Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Wisden have gone mad!!:finger: Wisden = :fail: I guess they forgot to look at the quality of the opposition This is quite messed up. #Shakib averaged 35.57 with the bat in the last 12 months. Take WI out of it and his average is 30.81. # He scored "zero" centuries in the last 12 months. In fact he has never scored a century in his entire career. # 3 50s, one of them against WI. # His bowling average was 23.17. Take WI out and the average is 24.96. # His bowling SR is 51.9. Take WI away and it's 52.5. Has no one done better than that? That's an understatement. They will hail Sakib as better than Tendulkar. For those who are not updated...:) 1 Shakib Al Hasan (B) 8 7.94 2 Gautam Gambhir (I) 8 7.63 3 Graeme Smith (SA) 7 7.21 4 Sachin Tendulkar (I) 9 7.00 = Jacques Kallis (SA) 8 7.00 6 Ben Hilfenhaus (A) 8 6.94 7 Andrew Flintoff (E) 8 6.88 = Dale Steyn (SA) 8 6.88 9 Fidel Edwards (WI) 8* 6.81 10 Andrew Strauss (E) 13* 6.77 Qualification: minimum 5 Tests between Sept 1 2008 and August 31 2009. This precluded any Pakistan players from the list as they did not play enough Tests in the period. Our reporters at each Test gave marks out of 10 to every player; we added up the marks for each player and calculated their average mark. *Edwards and Strauss also played in the abandoned Test at North Sound, Antigua, in February. No marks were awarded for this match. Of the 164 cricketers who played Test cricket in the 12 months from September 2008 you could be forgiven for not expecting a 22-year-old Bangladeshi allrounder to be TWC’s Test Player of the Year. Yet Shakib Al Hasan deserves his accolade. As his statistics opposite show, Shakib performed consistently against good opposition, including three five-fors in four Tests against the two highest-ranked sides in the world – South Africa and Sri Lanka. His marks were not inflated, as they often are for average players standing out in a losing cause; they merely reflected great performances in a losing side. Andrew Flintoff ended his final 12 months as a Test player by being rated England’s top performer, perhaps surprising given the influence of Andrew Strauss (10th), who averaged 60 with the bat in his first full year as captain. South Africa’s place at the top of the Test rankings is reflected with the most players in the top 10, while the potential of West Indies if they stopped the in-fighting is highlighted by having Fidel Edwards at ninth and Shivnarine Chanderpaul at 11th equal. Last year’s winner Brett Lee played eight Tests but had an average mark per match of only 4.94 while the South Africans Dale Steyn and Jacques Kallis are the only players to retain their top-10 status from last year. Shakib has played eight Tests in four different series over the last 12 months. Other than a weakened West Indies side, he has faced strong opposition from New Zealand, South Africa and Sri Lanka. v New Zealand (home) 7-36, 2-79 + 5, 71 v New Zealand (home) 1-57, 0-6 + 49 v South Africa (away) 5-130 + 14, 0 v South Africa (away) 6-99 + 30, 2 v Sri Lanka (home) 5-70, 1-134 + 26, 96 v Sri Lanka (home) 4-109, 1-79 + 0, 46 v West Indies (away) 2-76, 3-39 + 17, 30 v West Indies (away) 3-59, 5-70 + 16, 96* 45 wkts @ 23.17 498 runs @ 35.57 ICC Awards 2009 Shakib in World Test XI World Test Team of the Year: Gautam Gambhir (India), Andrew Strauss (England), AB de Villiers (South Africa), Sachin Tendulkar (India), Thilan Samaraweera (Sri Lanka), Michael Clarke (Australia), MS Dhoni (India, capt & wk), Shakib Al Hasan (Bangladesh), Mitchell Johnson (Australia), Stuart Broad (England), Dale Steyn (South Africa), Harbhajan Singh (India, 12th man) Reliance Mobile ICC ODI Championship All-Rounder Rankings ID Rat. Name Nat. Career Best Rating 1 427 Shakib Al Hasan 451 v Zimbabwe, 11/08/2009 2 351 Yuvraj Singh 362 v Sri Lanka, 14/09/2009 3 336 J.H. Kallis 505 v West Indies, 09/05/2001 4 320 Shahid Afridi 360 v Bangladesh, 08/06/2008 4 320 S.R. Watson 320 v New Zealand, 05/10/2009 6 315 J.D.P. Oram 383 v Bangladesh, 14/10/2008 7 311 Shoaib Malik 402 v West Indies, 19/01/2005 8 307 A. Flintoff 544 v Sri Lanka, 18/09/2004 9 306 S.T. Jayasuriya 463 v Pakistan, 05/11/1997 10 304 J.R. Hopes 340 v Pakistan, 24/04/2009 Reliance Mobile ICC Test Championship All-Rounder Rankings ID Rat. Name Nat. Career Best Rating 1 455 J.H. Kallis 616 v Pakistan, 26/12/2002 2 395 D.L. Vettori 395 v Sri Lanka, 26/08/2009 3 342 M.G. Johnson 384 v England, 08/07/2009 4 282 Shakib Al Hasan 282 v West Indies, 20/07/2009 5 278 S.C.J. Broad 278 v Australia, 20/08/2009 6 267 A. Flintoff 501 v Pakistan, 12/11/2005 7 252 C.H. Gayle 282 v England, 13/02/2009 8 236 D.J.J. Bravo 295 v Australia, 12/06/2008 9 229 G.P. Swann 229 v Australia, 20/08/2009 10 213 Harbhajan Singh 213 v New Zealand, 03/04/2009 Link to comment
kalpurush Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 C'mon. In evaluating a player, opposition makes a big difference. He didn't chose them, but that does not make him the best player of the year. By your logic, if Pakistan had not played anyone else by Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, they would have won team of the year? OK lets look past the opposition. Look at his stats, are they really that good? But I still feel you have to consider opposition when looking at the context of the game. Remember The Name November 2009 Bangladesh’s 22-year-old allrounder Shakib Al Hasan is TWC’s Test player of the year. v New Zealand (home) 7-36, 2-79 + 5, 71 v New Zealand (home) 1-57, 0-6 + 49 v South Africa (away) 5-130 + 14, 0 v South Africa (away) 6-99 + 30, 2 v Sri Lanka (home) 5-70, 1-134 + 26, 96 v Sri Lanka (home) 4-109, 1-79 + 0, 46 v West Indies (away) 2-76, 3-39 + 17, 30 v West Indies (away) 3-59, 5-70 + 16, 96* Link to comment
OriginalCopy Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Good argument promoting his cause. Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 They have a seperate award called Wisden Leading cricketer in the world. Just one person receives this award. Here is the list. last year won by Virendar Sehwag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisden_Leading_Cricketer_in_the_World Link to comment
riasat Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 They have a seperate award called Wisden Leading cricketer in the world. Just one person receives this award. Here is the list. last year won by Virendar Sehwag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wisden_Leading_Cricketer_in_the_World I thought they just randomly pick any cricketer....how does it matter? :haha: Link to comment
vvvslaxman Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I thought they just randomly pick any cricketer....how does it matter? :haha: Wisden awards are primarily for English cricketers. In between they pick up some other world cricketers. In 2005 all 5 were English cricketers. So they established a seperate award in 2004 which is called Leading cricketer in the world (world no.1 cricketer in the world).Selection of this involves renowned commentators, ex cricketers, experts from all over the world . This award is fairly new unlike the wisden award . So we don't have enough samples to call it random unlike the other award which has been given away for years. Link to comment
randy Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 interesting read about the man There is an interesting read about the man in wisden somehow I cant put the link Link to comment
randy Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 interesting read about the man: http://wisdencricketer.com/item.php?...=0&item_id=599 Link to comment
Lord Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 MJ's stats : 80 wickets @ 27 in 17 tests,all against top teams like SA,Ind n Eng,NZ 632 runs @ 30 in the same period to me he deserved it Link to comment
Sachinism Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Good to see Bangladesh fans on the forum. Welcome :--D Link to comment
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