'I hated Miandad's guts' - Ravi Shastri Interview

[vvvslaxman]

Perhaps if he had applied himself more and not tried to knock the cover off the ball so much, hed have achieved more. Its interesting to get views of you guys whove seen these all rounders play, from what Ive read ive always thought Imran is a better batsman by some distance and arguably a marginally better bowler Mr Wicket in another thread was talking about Botham and what a good bat he was and, IIRC he thought Both was a better bat than Kapil even

Imran was able to play one of those "blade" (boring) innings. That is why he looked consistent. But Kapil meant business. Destruction. Devastation. Demolition. He lived and died by sword till the end.

[patriot]

Statistically Botham is slightly better, but, he din't score a SINGLE ton against the greatest bowling attack of the times, Kapil scored 3. Botham did savage our attack though.

[Temujin Khaghan]

lol, so much for Shastri's popularity. After half a dozen posts, the topic completely deviates. :cantstop:

[Temujin Khaghan]

I have been lucky enough to watch big hitters - Richards' date=' Lloyd, Greenidge, Botham, Sreekanth, Lance Cairns etc etc bat and I can tell you Kapil Dev was better than them all(you are welcome to check strike rate). [/quote'] What about Hadlee, was he a hitter like kapil and botham?

[vvvslaxman]

lol' date=' so much for Shastri's popularity. After half a dozen posts, the topic completely deviates. :cantstop:[/quote'] He was utterly selfish. That is why people don't really care about him. But he was a decent batsman considering he had to play only the best teams not teams like Bangladesh. Especially he held his nerve in the tied Test. He had his moments like 188 runs opening partnership with Srikkanth. Man of the series (should have gone to Srikkanth though) in Benson & Hedges series. He was an atrocious fielder though. I mean he won't field badly. But he will pretend to put effort and back away at the last moment.

[Temujin Khaghan]

He was utterly selfish. That is why people don't really care about him. But he was a decent batsman considering he had to play only the best teams not teams like Bangladesh. Especially he held his nerve in the tied Test. He had his moments like 188 runs opening partnership with Srikkanth. Man of the series (should have gone to Srikkanth though) in Benson & Hedges series. He was an atrocious fielder though. I mean he won't field badly. But he will pretend to put effort and back away at the last moment.

void of self-belief i guess. Or might be while fielding he was thinking in his mind "...and the ball is racing towards the boundary like a tracer bullet". :cantstop: "Just what the doctor did not order for india"

[vvvslaxman]

void of self-belief i guess. Or might be while fielding he was thinking in his mind "...and the ball is racing towards the boundary like a tracer bullet". :cantstop: "Just what the doctor did not order for india"

General theory in those days was Ravi would not want his pressed clothes getting dirty. Any time he soiled himself rolling on the ground to save something, it was a news. Friends would call "Did you see.. Ravi Shastri dived to save the ball". Rare scene those days.

[Temujin Khaghan]

General theory in those days was Ravi would not want his pressed clothes getting dirty. Any time he soiled himself rolling on the ground to save something' date= it was a news. Friends would call "Did you see.. Ravi Shastri dived to save the ball". Rare scene those days.

:hysterical: thats why azhar was such a huge relief.

[Lurker]

Its interesting to get views of you guys whove seen these all rounders play, from what Ive read ive always thought Imran is a better batsman by some distance and arguably a marginally better bowler Mr Wicket in another thread was talking about Botham and what a good bat he was and, IIRC he thought Both was a better bat than Kapil even

Difference of opinion regarding the 4 greats is not surprising considering simply how good they were and what they brought to the game. It is a testament in itself that since their retirement we have not seen a complete all-rounder although every team has wanted one. South Africa has come closest with Pollock and Kallis and Chris Cairns was extremely good as well but I doubt they were as good as the 4, although Kallis's stats would probably put him ahead of them all. Back to the 4. Here is how I would rate them: Bowling: Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham Batting: Botham > Kapil > Imran > Hadlee Fielding: Kapil > Botham > Hadlee > Imran Captaincy: Imran > Kapil > Botham > Hadlee. Bowling wise Hadlee was easily the best. Imran at his heyday was the deadliest though there is always going to be suspicions of ball tampering. Kapil was fantastic early on, more so since he was a one-man band but lost edge after his knee operations in mid 80s. Botham was a great outswing bowler in classical English mould, still his biggest fans would admit he got a lot of wickets off rank bad balls, still a great bowler to have on your side. Batting wise there is little to choose between Kapil and Botham. Kapil was the deadlier one and the one who won matches, which Botham also did with equal elan. The difference between the two was Botham would bide his time and launch an assault while Kapil would launch assault from ball 1, which although very romantic can also frustrate your fans(and skippers) if the gamble doesnt pay off. Still if you had to win the game I would bet on Kapil more. Imran was a scratcher, most of his best innings would come where he scratched his innings through dropped catches, missed chances etc etc but he did put a price on his wicket and for that I greatly appreciate him. Hadlee was a better bat in county cricket and first class. His performance in Test and limited overs was decent at best. Fielding wise Kapil was the most natural of them all. He was great at every position and I can not remember any other skipper(apart from Ponting) who would put himself at most crucial positions. Botham was great at slips and off his own bowling. Hadlee was superb in covers but neither he nor Botham were great in outfields (atleast I can not remember any superlative efforts). Imran was the worst and kind of like Ravi Shastri. If he would have played today he would be under a lot of scanner. Skipperwise Imran was easily the best although Kapil had his moments. The big difference between Imran and Kapil was the former would pick his team while the latter, as any Indian captain, struggled for compromise between his choice and those of selectors. Of the four Kapil and Botham were very similar in cricketing parlance. Big hitters who performed best when needed most and also great swing bowlers who held the record for most wickets for their countries.

[coffee_rules]

General theory in those days was Ravi would not want his pressed clothes getting dirty. Any time he soiled himself rolling on the ground to save something' date=' it was a news. Friends would call "Did you see.. Ravi Shastri dived to save the ball". Rare scene those days.[/quote'] Never heard of this story, fielding was generally bad in those days. Kapil was the first true fielder we had in the outfield. May be Madan Lal too. But most of the team were happy to use the leg to field in the outfield. Also, who the hell would dive on field covered with stones and rocks. Grass in the outfield was to be seen only in foreign pitches in the 80s. I started to see fielders diving only in the 90s.

[Temujin Khaghan]

^ well written by Lurker

[coffee_rules]

In retrospect pants was a bit harsh on Imran but it terms of pure batting skills and abilities I do consider Imran as hardly a comparison to both Kapil and Botham. Imran was one of those players, specially as a batsman, that when he ended his career you look back and mutter - Just how did he get those numbers?? I can not recall considerable innings from him. The only one that comes to mind is 1992 WC finals and I still maintain the innings pretty much scrwed Pakistan's chances if not for late hitting by lower order batsmen. Dont mean to start a Kapil-Imran debate now but purely in terms of impact I fail to see Imran doing anything remotely of the kind Kapil would do routinely.

Huge Impact in a handful of occasions is not how I quantify contribution in batting. Salim Durrani also had a few such innings, Kapil Dev's contribution is probably a little more than that. But Imran's stats resemble front-line bats for a 2/3s of his career. Imran may be a boring bat, but he contributed to the innings much more times than Kapil Dev. Taluntwise, I agree Kapil was miles ahead of Imran in batting and in fielding too.

[Sooda]

Difference of opinion regarding the 4 greats is not surprising considering simply how good they were and what they brought to the game. It is a testament in itself that since their retirement we have not seen a complete all-rounder although every team has wanted one. South Africa has come closest with Pollock and Kallis and Chris Cairns was extremely good as well but I doubt they were as good as the 4, although Kallis's stats would probably put him ahead of them all. Back to the 4. Here is how I would rate them: Bowling: Hadlee > Imran > Kapil > Botham Batting: Botham > Kapil > Imran > Hadlee Fielding: Kapil > Botham > Hadlee > Imran Captaincy: Imran > Kapil > Botham > Hadlee. Bowling wise Hadlee was easily the best. Imran at his heyday was the deadliest though there is always going to be suspicions of ball tampering. Kapil was fantastic early on, more so since he was a one-man band but lost edge after his knee operations in mid 80s. Botham was a great outswing bowler in classical English mould, still his biggest fans would admit he got a lot of wickets off rank bad balls, still a great bowler to have on your side. Batting wise there is little to choose between Kapil and Botham. Kapil was the deadlier one and the one who won matches, which Botham also did with equal elan. The difference between the two was Botham would bide his time and launch an assault while Kapil would launch assault from ball 1, which although very romantic can also frustrate your fans(and skippers) if the gamble doesnt pay off. Still if you had to win the game I would bet on Kapil more. Imran was a scratcher, most of his best innings would come where he scratched his innings through dropped catches, missed chances etc etc but he did put a price on his wicket and for that I greatly appreciate him. Hadlee was a better bat in county cricket and first class. His performance in Test and limited overs was decent at best. Fielding wise Kapil was the most natural of them all. He was great at every position and I can not remember any other skipper(apart from Ponting) who would put himself at most crucial positions. Botham was great at slips and off his own bowling. Hadlee was superb in covers but neither he nor Botham were great in outfields (atleast I can not remember any superlative efforts). Imran was the worst and kind of like Ravi Shastri. If he would have played today he would be under a lot of scanner. Skipperwise Imran was easily the best although Kapil had his moments. The big difference between Imran and Kapil was the former would pick his team while the latter, as any Indian captain, struggled for compromise between his choice and those of selectors. Of the four Kapil and Botham were very similar in cricketing parlance. Big hitters who performed best when needed most and also great swing bowlers who held the record for most wickets for their countries.

Cheers Lurker thats awesome In my mind I ranked them roughly the same on the bowling front. I did always think (im not sure why) that Hadlee needed conditions REALLY in his favour to go a good job, and that was less the case with Imran and Kapil. I need to look at a stat break down to see if thats true. His record of course is pretty amazing Going by stats alone youd think Imran was the best bat of the lot, but again i dont know enough about his career. Mr Wicket wrote a bit about Bothams innings in 81 at headingly vs Lillee and co and how that was a great knock. Kapil has scored a few vs the WI. I guess as you say those two were better matchwinners Imran has a fantastic record vs India- 50+ batting average, take that out and it drops to the mid/low 30s his average

[The Outsider]

Huge Impact in a handful of occasions is not how I quantify contribution in batting. Salim Durrani also had a few such innings' date=' Kapil Dev's contribution is probably a little more than that. But Imran's stats resemble front-line bats for a 2/3s of his career. Imran may be a boring bat, but he contributed to the innings much more times than Kapil Dev. Taluntwise, I agree Kapil was miles ahead of Imran in batting and in fielding too.[/quote'] As someone who would bat at number 6 or 7, Imran's approach to batting was very unlike Kapil or Botham and that shows in the number of innings of impact one can remember Imran playing - hardly any. He would regularly come in, play the percentages and score a 40-50 unbeaten with the tail around him - a more measured approach, but ideally you want your number 6/7 allrounder to be able to turn matches around for you, an ability which was missing in Imran's batting. This is also reflected in the number of not outs he had in his career - 25 in 126 innings as opposed to 6 in 161 innings for Botham and 15 in 184 innings for Kapil. Kapil and Botham would never let the game stagnate, specially with a tail like India used to carry at times in those days it would have been criminal for Kapil to play percentage cricket around the tail. In Fact his 89 off 55 deliveries included many instances where he denied singles to avoid Doshi from coming on strike. Such things will never be captured in statistics. Imran played a few obdurate innings where he would block for hours on end and was successful with the approach on a few occasions, like in the 2nd innings of the Bangalore test where he made a crucial 40 odd blocking the ***** out of Maninder Singh. Batting wise, Imran was quite similar to Shastri I would say - straight and dead bat technique, scoring through flicks and nudges with the occasional ability for some pyrotechnics by skipping down the track and hitting big over long on. But as a lower order batsman there is no doubt I would pick Kapil or Botham. It's not just about numbers - in my choice of World XI, I would pick Steve Waugh at number 5 between Tendulkar at one end and Sobers and Gilchrist at the other. Now, I don't consider Waugh to be a better batsman than Richards or Lara for example, but given the composition of the rest of the batting order, he would be the logical choice to hold the innings together if needed between some stroke players. Imran might have the better average but at the position these guys batted at, his impact just isn't in the league of Kapil or Botham. Another comparison can be drawn between Pollock and Flintoff as batsmen - Pollock averages as much if not more than Flintoff as far as I remember, but Flintoff has had more impactful innings.

[Lurker]

As someone who would bat at number 6 or 7, Imran's approach to batting was very unlike Kapil or Botham and that shows in the number of innings of impact one can remember Imran playing - hardly any. He would regularly come in, play the percentages and score a 40-50 unbeaten with the tail around him - a more measured approach, but ideally you want your number 6/7 allrounder to be able to turn matches around for you, an ability which was missing in Imran's batting. This is also reflected in the number of not outs he had in his career - 25 in 126 innings as opposed to 6 in 161 innings for Botham and 15 in 184 innings for Kapil. Kapil and Botham would never let the game stagnate, specially with a tail like India used to carry at times in those days it would have been criminal for Kapil to play percentage cricket around the tail. In Fact his 89 off 55 deliveries included many instances where he denied singles to avoid Doshi from coming on strike. Such things will never be captured in statistics. Imran played a few obdurate innings where he would block for hours on end and was successful with the approach on a few occasions, like in the 2nd innings of the Bangalore test where he made a crucial 40 odd blocking the ***** out of Maninder Singh. Batting wise, Imran was quite similar to Shastri I would say - straight and dead bat technique, scoring through flicks and nudges with the occasional ability for some pyrotechnics by skipping down the track and hitting big over long on.

Probably as good a summary as one can expect to read on the subject. If you factor away the Not outs the batting average of Kapil falls from 31 to 28.5, a drop of 1.5 runs/innings(or close to 5% for stats minded). You do the same with Imran and it falls to 30.2 from 37, a cool drop of 7.5 tuns per innings(or close to 20% for stats minded). And so if you had to select out of two players who would you pick? Player A scored 28.5 runs per innings at a strike rate of 85-90. Player B scored 31 runs per innings at a strike rate of 45-50? Shwetabh is also right on money about the tail-enders. Quick example being the 4 consecutive sixes that Kapil hit to save the follow-on. On the very next delivery Hirwani was out. Story of Kapil's life really. The other day I was watching the replay of Chennai Tied test when Kapil scored century with India's back against the wall. Aussie player David Boon said something like - Basically he came out with no fear and decided everything had to go. And he scored them at such a rate!!" Sounds about right I say. You wont find any compliments like that for Imran(or Hadlee). Botham was very much like Kapil in this regards. xxx

[coffee_rules]

For every aggressive innings Kapil played, he also had instances that caused him to be dropped as in Delhi '84. He would squander a good position in the innings with blind ghumao shots. That's why his contribution was more like a hit or miss. He batted without a sense of the match position or role to play, much like Sehwag. Dravid is boring compared to Tendulkar. But his contribution is as much as him, even though he has less number of Huge Impact innings. We are talking about two different things.

[The Outsider]

For every aggressive innings Kapil played' date=' he also had instances that caused him to be dropped as in Delhi '84. He would squander a good position in the innings with blind ghumao shots. That's why his contribution was more like a hit or miss. He batted without a sense of the match position or role to play, much like Sehwag. Dravid is boring compared to Tendulkar. But his contribution is as much as him, even though he has less number of Huge Impact innings. We are talking about two different things.[/quote'] For a top order batsman, your argument has merit. Someone averaging 37 in the top order is more valuable than someone averaging 31. However, from a team's stand point what do you want from your allrounder batting at 6/7? I would say a Botham or a Kapil is more valuable at that slot than Imran. Atherton also averaged 38 with the bat, but to say Imran and Atherton were batsmen of similar ability and achievements is ridiculous. Kapil's batting during the England and WI tours of '82-'83 is legendary stuff. He scored 4 near hundreds at faster than run a ball within a space of a few months against the likes of Willis, Botham, Marshall, Garner, Roberts, Holding. Sure, he was not the most responsible batsman but that was the package deal with Kapil. I still think he was unfairly dropped after the Delhi test because in the first innings he had scored a half century and ironically had the same number of runs in the test as Gavaskar. But yeah, I agree that his cavalier approach did hurt the team at times for example in the WC semi final or the Bangalore test. But a classic example of what you gain and lose with the approach Kapil brought was the tied test in which anyone looking at his second innings dismissal would curse him for letting the team down, but it was due to his belligerent hundred in the first innings that the match was even a contest by that time.

[Dinx - the Jinx]

Kapil's batting during the England and WI tours of '82-'83 is legendary stuff. He scored 4 near hundreds at faster than run a ball within a space of a few months against the likes of Willis' date= Botham, Marshall, Garner, Roberts, Holding.

i may be off topic.. but i'm just not able to resist telling. no offense meant.. please take it positively... as you have mentioned in multiple posts in this very same thread, if an all rounder coming down at 6 in a test match and scoring at more than run a ball is more important and impactful... then why are you not giving a similar or even a semblence of respect to some of the very high impact innings played in T20s? worse is you call them cow lashers.. so will you call kapil and botham cow lashers as well? you say, an all rounder coming at 6 down is not expected to scratch and nudge like imran, but should play a match turning, high impact innings like a 59 ball 85.. whereas when a certain pollard hits a 18 ball 54 (mind you, he is not a batsman.. he's a hit or miss all rounder), winning the match for his team virtually from the jaws of defeat, you call it cow lashing... what kind of double standards is this? just cos you dont like T20, you cant be so harsh.. isnt it.. what else would you expect from a guy like pollard n that kind of match situation..

[The Outsider]

i may be off topic.. but i'm just not able to resist telling. no offense meant.. please take it positively... as you have mentioned in multiple posts in this very same thread, if an all rounder coming down at 6 in a test match and scoring at more than run a ball is more important and impactful... then why are you not giving a similar or even a semblence of respect to some of the very high impact innings played in T20s? worse is you call them cow lashers.. so will you call kapil and botham cow lashers as well? you say, an all rounder coming at 6 down is not expected to scratch and nudge like imran, but should play a match turning, high impact innings like a 59 ball 85.. whereas when a certain pollard hits a 18 ball 54 (mind you, he is not a batsman.. he's a hit or miss all rounder), winning the match for his team virtually from the jaws of defeat, you call it cow lashing... what kind of double standards is this? just cos you dont like T20, you cant be so harsh.. isnt it.. what else would you expect from a guy like pollard n that kind of match situation..

Firstly, T20 might not be my most preferred format but I quite enjoy high quality T20 matches as in the WC. It is these substandard leagues like IPL and CL getting so much hype and frenzy which I find annoying, primarily. Now, getting back to your post. That you choose to compare Kapil's and Botham's runs scored against the likes of Marshall, Garner, Holding, Lillee, Roberts, Willis, Thompson, and Kapil and Botham themselves in a test match with some cowlashing against Moises freaking Henriques in a T20 shows how depth you are. There was nothing inherently wrong with Pollard's innings - it was a superb one in fact in the context of the sub standard nature of the tournament where half the overs are usually bowled by absolute crap bowlers. What was nuts was the reaction to the innings - half of ICF suddenly wanted him in their IPL squads, which probably would be a good match of crappy standards in fact. There was an article on cricinfo after the innings comparing him to Pietersen() and he will land up with a huge IPL contract this year. There is so much glorification and hype of mediocrity when there is genuine class available. Much like songs like Kaanta laga would become chartbusters, but half the people would not even heard who Ustaad Bade Ghulam Ali Khan was. It's your choice to join the bandwagon of mediocrity but don't take away my right to criticize it.

[Dinx - the Jinx]

^^ nobody is stopping you from criticizing.. and i'm not comparing KP to KD.. all i was telling you is when you have so much respect for ppl who went hammer and tongs in the longer version of the game, why are you so much against an equally (if not better as per your standards) devastating innings played in a T20 match where thats the way you are expected to play.. i'm not here to carry the flag for Pollard.. he is nothing as far as i'm concerned. but you are not only criticizing him. you're criticizing every good innings played in a T20.. eg: manish pandey's century in IPL 09.