Ian Botham the bowler - luckiest trundler in the world ?

[patriot]

Q4uo123pbq4 I am struggling to find a single footage that shows Botham as a bowler worthy of getting nearly 400 test wickets. I have heard before that he was a lucky SOB who got buckets of wickets with long hops and pi$$ poor shots by batsmen rather than good bowling. He was an awesome attacking batsmen - but Freddie's bowling seems much much better.

[panesarv]

Flintoff is an amazin bowler......I'm pretty sad that he had to retire due to his injuries.... I just don't have words to describe flintoff's bowling...love him...

[vvvslaxman]

Q4uo123pbq4 I am struggling to find a single footage that shows Botham as a bowler worthy of getting nearly 400 test wickets. I have heard before that he was a lucky SOB who got buckets of wickets with long hops and pi$$ poor shots by batsmen rather than good bowling. He was an awesome attacking batsmen - but Freddie's bowling seems much much better.

He pwned us in Mumbai Test with 13 wickets. He sucked against West Indies though. He had swing going for him. He could run through sides.

[punjabi_khota]

Cricinfo describes his bowling as "run-in and hope"

[DomainK]

I have not seen much of him, but I think his deceptive pace worked for him just as it worked to some extent for Mohinder Amarnath.

[youngindia]

the ignorance of the OP is on display again. at his peak he was a great swing bowler. however just like kapil, he seemed to have lost the edge in the later part of his career.also he was tainted by drug allegations,scandals and the last five-six years was a total disappointment. true the west indies contained him a lot.but he has given stunning performances against other sides notably inthe 81 ashes better known as botham's ashes

[dial_100]

Yeah...it would be hard to play him even today... He had very deceptive swing bowling...

[Mr. Wicket]

LOL - patriot, have you read Botham's autobiography? Very fun read (the non-kiddy version that goes into his issues w/ the media and drugs at various points). He talks about a lot of his wickets coming from long hops or loose balls, and having a reputation among his teammates as a charmed bastard who could get a wicket with just about anything. (I believe his first wicket was one of the Chappell brothers with a long hop) That said he did also have a tendency to prey upon batsmen's tendency to hook at that time (particularly from NZ, Aus and WI) - and was a pretty smart guy who knew when to pitch the ball up, and when to bang it in. BTW, if you are making comparisons between Botham and Flintoff (in which case I shall forward you some job applications for the Telegraph and Times :aetsch:) - I will say that Flintoff was a better bowler, but Botham was a FAR better batsman.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Botham as an allrounder is much better then flintoff 383 wickets at 28 with an avg of 28 luck my ass.........it takes hell lot of talent to take that many wickets add to that 5000 runs at 33 with 14 centuries......flintoff isnt even in the next block KTHXBAI

[Lurker]

I am struggling to find a single footage that shows Botham as a bowler worthy of getting nearly 400 test wickets. I have heard before that he was a lucky SOB who got buckets of wickets with long hops and pi$$ poor shots by batsmen rather than good bowling.

Thats down to either of the two following facts: a) You have not tried hard enough. b) Considering Botham's best years were between 75 and 85(give or take a few years) not surprising you would not find a whole lot of television footage. Botham was a very useful swing bowler. His outswing in particular was fantastic as it curved in and left very late at a nippy pace. He lost his pace a bit as he got older and put on more weight. True he did get a lot of wickets off bad deliveries and that, in my opinion, was probably down to his larger than life character wherein batsmen would get carried away but at the end of the day a wicket is a wicket. Comparison with Freddie is futile consideing Botham played non-stop cricket and was the number 1 bowler of his side, even when Bob Willis was around. Freddie had a good few seasons but even then was never the number1 bowler..far as I can remember. xxx

[vvvslaxman]

Lurker is spot on. Botham best years were between 75 and 85. He unnecessarily played beyond 85.

[S.Bond]

bothamwas a legend,butflintoff is no less... Flintoff bowlso wellpls hegive 200% every time heplays, just can't forget some of hismatches in both ashes wins and in india....

[Sachinism]

bothamwas a legend,butflintoff is no less... Flintoff bowlso wellpls hegive 200% every time heplays, just can't forget some of hismatches in both ashes wins and in india....

Put the crack pipe down and re-write that post. Thank you

[S.Bond]

Put the crack pipe down and re-write that post. Thank you

hahaha sorry !!!!! I was saying that even if in terms of numbers flintoff is not as good as botham flintoff is an exellent all rounder.... He gave 200% every time he played... His bowling was so eyepleasing to watch, even his batting was good...

[Mr. Wicket]

How does one give 200%?

[vvvslaxman]

How does one give 200%?

:cantstop: Ofcourse a figure of speech. He is not Rajinikanth who gives 10000% . "If i say once it is equivalent to saying 100 times"

[Celeste]

Flintoff is overrated. His only good series was 2005 Ashes. Even Balaji & Sami had one good series.

[Guest Hiten.]

How does one give 200%?

By bowling a 17 ball over :regular_smile:

[patriot]

LOL - patriot, have you read Botham's autobiography? Very fun read (the non-kiddy version that goes into his issues w/ the media and drugs at various points). He talks about a lot of his wickets coming from long hops or loose balls, and having a reputation among his teammates as a charmed bastard who could get a wicket with just about anything. (I believe his first wicket was one of the Chappell brothers with a long hop) That said he did also have a tendency to prey upon batsmen's tendency to hook at that time (particularly from NZ, Aus and WI) - and was a pretty smart guy who knew when to pitch the ball up, and when to bang it in. BTW, if you are making comparisons between Botham and Flintoff (in which case I shall forward you some job applications for the Telegraph and Times :aetsch:) - I will say that Flintoff was a better bowler, but Botham was a FAR better batsman.

Fair enough Salil. Totally agree that Botham the batter was in a different league but Freddie's bowling just seems way superior -with all that pace and reverse swing - right till the end of his career. Though it must be said that he developed late as a bowler.

[Temujin Khaghan]

How does one give 200%?

by exceeding expectations... expectations which are formed by the players' statistics.