I don't rate India a long-term No.1 - Ian Chappell

[vvvslaxman]

Ian Chappell generally is not really sly and cunning like say Atherton. Just that he is over-confident about his analytical ability. How will he know if India won't unearth a world class bowler tomorrow or next month or in near future. He shouldn't look beyond more than an year or so. Situation will be totally different.

[akshayxyz]

If some one is criticizing you for not having / achieving X milestone. Then you have two options: a) negate the argument with appropriate facts b) evaluate whether there is merit in achieving X milestone. ( in terms of returns, satisfaction etc). If you chose (b), there is no harm in evaluating whether the argument / question has valuable inputs. Questions for you - Are you happy to be # 1 now and then, or will you be happier if we stay #1 convincingly for more than 20 years ( unrealistic but imagine the look at their faces, if that ever happens). Do you want to be like Pakistan - who can be # one for one day and then drop to bottom the next. ( in our case - replace 1 day with 1 decade) Do you want to rule the world - or would you continue enjoying fighting it day in day out? ( Do you want to rule US or Pakistan ;) )

[vvvslaxman]

Do you want to be like Pakistan - who can be # one for one day and then drop to bottom the next. ( in our case - replace 1 day with 1 decade)

When did that happen? :hysterical: Since ODI and Test rankings were arnnounced. Only 3 teams have reached that spot.

[DomainK]

When did that happen? :hysterical: Since ODI and Test rankings were arnnounced. Only 3 teams have reached that spot.

And needless to say, Pakistan is not getting there at least for another decade.

[akshayxyz]

Ian Chappell generally is not really sly and cunning like say Atherton. Just that he is over-confident about his analytical ability. How will he know if India won't unearth a world class bowler tomorrow or next month or in near future. He shouldn't look beyond more than an year or so. Situation will be totally different.

If Ian (and others) do not raise this question - about quality bowlers, we might not notice that shortcoming for a while. Now that he has, I hope the process will be faster. All through this we should not loose focus from primary objective - what is the next best thing to do - to be long term # 1. e.g. it is possible that if we have 10 Jhonty Rhodes kind of fielders, we might become dominant force faster than having if we achieve 5 McGrath/Warne kind of bowlers. If you think there is a better and more satisfying target than "being long term #1", then lets work towards that first. We are talking about Test cricket.

[akshayxyz]

When did that happen? :hysterical: Since ODI and Test rankings were arnnounced. Only 3 teams have reached that spot.

You are deviating from the actual topic. You are just nitpicking. I did not claim a certain fact, you failed to notice that it is theoretical example to put across my point. btw, if someone calculates ratings on ball-by-ball basis - it is possible that Pakistan could have been #1 for one ball ;)

[The Outsider]

If Ian (and others) do not raise this question - about quality bowlers, we might not notice that shortcoming for a while. Now that he has, I hope the process will be faster.

Yaar, you are speaking as if Ian Chappell is making some earth shattering revelation. Anyone with half an understanding of cricket would know and can see that the Indian team does not have an allrounder and a genuinely great bowler. Do you think Dhoni and the selectors are not aware of it or it needs some perspicuous comments from Chappell to bring the point home? And most would also agree that without a genuinely great bowler it will be very difficult for India to sustain the kind of dominance WI and Australia did. What's so new about all this?

[zen]

I can't believe the assumptions being made here: 1. That Ind needs ppl like Ian (and others) to draw attention to its shortcomings 2. 10 Jonty Rhodes kind of fielders (presumbly with current set of bowlers) = 5 MCgrath/Warne type bowlers (with current set of fielders) :haha:

[goose]

When was the last time India fielded it's first choice full strength pace attack outside the sub-continent?

[vvvslaxman]

If Ian (and others) do not raise this question - about quality bowlers' date=' we might not notice that shortcoming for a while. .[/quote'] :hysterical: That's all i can do here. Do you seriously mean India would not have been able figure out its short coming without Ian chappell. This is an insult to all ICF members and other indian cricket forum members. What exactly this forum and its members are doing you think? Do you really think Dhoni, Tendulkar are not aware of what is missing?

[akshayxyz]

I can't believe the assumptions being made here: 2. 10 Jonty Rhodes kind of fielders (presumbly with current set of bowlers) = 5 MCgrath/Warne type bowlers (with current set of fielders) :haha:

I am not asking you to believe - you are talking like people would have talked in 1500s - "I cant believe earth revolves around the sun". You can either laugh at an assumption or spare a moment to think may be it is possible to achieve that. In any case - that was just a theoretical possibility. To put across the point that there can be 7^63 possible combinations ( 37 parameters to tweak)- which can lead us to long term #1 status. 2^95 can be ruled out in by evaluating first parameter....so on.. All this while we should consciously be working towards "long term #1". P.S. I want you to ask - where I picked up the numbers from? If one still did not get it, one never will (highly likely).

[zen]

I am not asking you to believe - you are talking like people would have talked in 1500s - "I cant believe earth revolves around the sun". You can either laugh at an assumption or spare a moment to think may be it is possible to achieve that. In any case - that was just a theoretical possibility. To put across the point that there can be 7^63 possible combinations ( 37 parameters to tweak)- which can lead us to long term #1 status. 2^95 can be ruled out in by evaluating first parameter....so on.. All this while we should consciously be working towards "long term #1". P.S. I want you to ask - where I picked up the numbers from? If one still did not get it, one never will (highly likely).

So if one can work out so many combinations to arrive at some 'obvious' conclusion why do we need ppl like Ian (and others) to point at our short comings in the first place :hysterical: haha, don't be a tool. no point in trying to dig hard until you find something

[Pak_Forever]

Why you guys care so much about ranking? Ranking doesn't mean much to me, not b/c Pakistan sucks in Test but you can't really judge a team based on ranking which changes after every second game. A team that dominates in all 3 departments of this game and rules for a good decade deserves to be called no.1.

[akshayxyz]

:hysterical: That's all i can do here. Do you seriously mean India would not have been able figure out its short coming without Ian chappell. This is an insult to all ICF members and other indian cricket forum members. What exactly this forum and its members are doing you think? Do you really think Dhoni' date=' Tendulkar are not aware of what is missing?[/quote'] You just don't get it? Did I ever claim that whatever he has told is unknown to ICFers / team ? I said it mightbe possible that had he not commented - we might have taken longer than to realize. If it was already known well and good. When India became # one, I did not notice any ICFer talking - peak 1 is achieved lets now target for long term as that is certainly one thing missing from our trophy bag - Now that so many reporters have questioned, more people think / talk about it. I will repeat that I am happy that such people exist - who ask questions. and there is no harm in having a quick look at what they are trying to say. Why do not you do this - Come up with a better article on the same topic (suggestions for india to be on top for long time).

[akshayxyz]

So if one can work out so many combinations to arrive at some 'obvious' conclusion why do we need ppl like Ian (and others) to point at our short comings in the first place :hysterical: haha, don't be a tool. no point in trying to dig hard until you find something

My last attempt at educating to those who still did not get it. Some one said - "Our attitude should be - to be hard skinned and just ignore such articles". My point is - That is not right attitude to have.

[The Outsider]

My last attempt at educating to those who still did not get it. Some one said - "Our attitude should be - to be hard skinned and just ignore such articles". My point is - That is not right attitude to have.

That is exactly the right attitude to have. Such articles and discussions offer nothing that is already not known and are printed and published with the sole purpose of generating hits from over anxious Indian junta and never fail to achieve their purpose. Again, tell me one great insight that Chappell, Manjrekar, or Bhogle offered that is already not common knowledge or is unknown to Dhoni and the Indian selectors?

[youngindia]

Because a Tendulkar or Warne are going to come up regardless which system you put them in' date=' just like Akram did in Pakistan, or Lara in WI.[/quote'] there is no 100% guarantee a great system will produce an all time great.but you are giving youself the best chance to produce one. there is a damn good chance that they will produce enough great and good players(part of a high quality talent pool) to have the no 1-2 spot. for instance china and usa may not have the champions in each and very olympic sport.but they have enough to win over 35 golds for sure. you get the drift? windies didn't have a great spin bowler or allrounder but they had the pacemen and batting greats. australia had two all time bowling greats mcgrath and warne followed by very good bowlers in gillespie and lee , a gang of great and very good batsmen. the permutations and combinations can differ. but a highly trained talent pool with impressive depth will be constant. its highly difficult in a minnow country to realsie your potential . simply because even if you are exceptionally talented, where are the facilities? who is going to give you first rate training? nurturing talent is not an easy joke. even if you have the talent, you have to find ways to nurture your way to the top. more capable the system is in the said field, its easier for more talented people to realise their potential. an exceptional player may win his country one gold or two.like swimmer anthony nesty of surinam. but to win 12 golds or more in an olympics, you need a world class system.to be the n01 international sports team conssitently , you need a world class system.

[youngindia]

Again, tell me one great insight that Chappell, Manjrekar, or Bhogle offered that is already not common knowledge or is unknown to Dhoni and the Indian selectors?

the problem with what you are saying is- what was chappell supposed to say in the discussion -"this shud be known to other people as well.so i am not going to say anything" :haha: he just echoed his view. people do try to stir to get publicity- media men,tabloids, even scholars releasing their books. we all know that. so change the real world?

[akshayxyz]

That is exactly the right attitude to have. ?

While I understand your point that we can put selective filters from where we should take knowledge, especially filter someone who have been proven to provide junk. My point is - in general - this is not right attitude to have to shut all the doors. In this case - instead of saying what he said is junk - I would have liked people to come up with better suggestions for everyone's benefit... or educate others why it is junk. Why do not you ask some one like sachin - whether it is right attitude to have ( being thick skinned) ?

[zen]

I don't think ppl here are dealing in ifs and buts. the precise point is that he is saying nothing new and it's irrelebvant as no one has claimed that Ind is good enough to dominate for the whole decade at the moment, which is something that shows that people understand what's required to go in that direction There are threads on upcoming players which is a good way to know abt whats coming up. Sports is not a mathmatical formula where you punch in 2 + 2 and you get 4. Ind's strength (its batting) is expected to go through a change in this decade with some of its key players on verge of retirement. It's not sensible to take batting as constant (as it is now) for the decade and then bring in factors like bowling to suggest that Ind can't be a dominant long term number one Some of the players who would be retiring are like once in a generation kind of players who come, make their mark and go. There are no real replacements. Ind is still struggling to replace Srinath. Like Australia is not the same team once those stalwarts retired. Neither Ian nor your combinations can do much to bring it back to that level but its domestic structure, the players that the system produce will! Also the example of the combinations that you thought of like 10 Rhodes is hilarious. Those 10Rhodes are pointless if they bat like Misbah for example. This is just to illustrate why having tons of combination don't work when you have something obvious like good batting and good bowling > good batting + good fielding or good bowling + good fielding (if there was such a choice). If you add good fielding to good fielding to good batting and good bowling, you can count on being the team that can really dominate as you can sqeeze in advantage from most angles