Chandan Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Was he chosen for any BP XI? - which is a mistake, he should have been there But even Virat Kohli was not selected so by your logic, why he merits test spot Yes. Virat Kohli was selected and he slammed a ton against an attack of Lee, Clark, Johnson, Siddle and Krejza. Here is the Scorecard My knowledge of domestic cricket is very less, so i wont argue with you there Kohlis and Rohits have played in A teams - good But why not Raina - becuase he was playing international cricket with the national side No. There was no international cricket going on when India played the top end tour in 2006. At the same time, there was no international cricket going on when Aus A and NZ A came to play in India in Sep-Oct 2008. Raina was not chosen and there was a reson because he had failed to excel even in the Ranji trophy. Does all other Indian international players play lots of domestic cricket Not selected for A tours since he was part of National squad - was not Raina's mistake, how can you point that against him As I told you, Raina was excluded from the squad without being busy in the international cricket when those tours took place. It is simple that the selectors then did not think him to be a test material. Now when the present lot of selectors do see him as a test material should they not test this in these kind of matches first before naming him for the test squad? This only shows the muddled thinking on this group of selectors and you don't have too far to go to get a proof. The selection of first test proved it beyond a doubt. Indian selectors need vision and guts, says Vengsarkar By Sanjay Rajan NAGPUR, India, Feb 10 (Reuters) - India need to carefully groom replacements for their batting "fab four" after suffering a crushing innings defeat by South Africa on Tuesday, former captain and chief selector Dilip Vengsarkar said. Without the experience of Rahul Dravid, Vangipurappu Laxman and Yuvraj Singh through injury, India struggled to cope with Dale Steyn's express pace and movement and lost in under four days. "The selectors need to look at grooming players," former test captain Vengsarkar told Reuters on Wednesday, after the innings-and-six-run defeat. Dravid, Laxman, master batsman Sachin Tendulkar and the retired Saurav Ganguly contributed more than 38,000 runs as they formed India's middle order for a decade. Yuvraj has succeeded Ganguly at six in the order, having proved himself in the one-day game, but other replacements have yet to be found. "That's three big (pairs of) boots to fill in the future," said Vengsarkar, who as a former chief selector was instrumental in India's rise to the number one ranking. "For that the selectors need to have a vision, foresight and guts." "We will miss Rahul, but somebody has to step up and do the work for the team," Indian captain Mahendra Singh Dhoni said of the team's vital cog ahead of the first test. Dravid, dubbed 'The Wall' as a tribute to his stonewalling exploits at the crucial number three slot, has been the rock around which India formed their famed middle order over the past decade. Despite the form of Steyn, Tendulkar hammered his 46th test century in the second innings to show that the world's highest run-getter, with more than 13,000 runs, is not ready for retirement just yet.
bunny Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Both are mediocre as far as tests are concerned.
Karan114 Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Yes. Virat Kohli was selected and he slammed a ton against an attack of Lee, Clark, Johnson, Siddle and Krejza. Here is the Scorecard No. There was no international cricket going on when India played the top end tour in 2006. At the same time, there was no international cricket going on when Aus A and NZ A came to play in India in Sep-Oct 2008. Raina was not chosen and there was a reson because he had failed to excel even in the Ranji trophy. As I told you, Raina was excluded from the squad without being busy in the international cricket when those tours took place. It is simple that the selectors then did not think him to be a test material. Now when the present lot of selectors do see him as a test material should they not test this in these kind of matches first before naming him for the test squad? This only shows the muddled thinking on this group of selectors and you don't have too far to go to get a proof. The selection of first test proved it beyond a doubt. Good points, well made.
urbestfriend Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 No. There was no international cricket going on when India played the top end tour in 2006. At the same time, there was no international cricket going on when Aus A and NZ A came to play in India in Sep-Oct 2008. Raina was not chosen and there was a reson because he had failed to excel even in the Ranji trophy.. No, You are not being honest with yourself. Raina was not selected because he was captaining India A against NZ-A who visited India for two tests. Raina even slammed a ton against NZ-A. Here is the scorecard As I told you, Raina was excluded from the squad without being busy in the international cricket when those tours took place. It is simple that the selectors then did not think him to be a test material. BS.
Rajma Chawal Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Raina but Kohli will get his chance in the future. Thankfully there is no nohit sharma
Chandan Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 No' date=' You are not being honest with yourself. Raina was not selected because he was captaining India A against NZ-A who visited India for two tests. Raina even slammed a ton against NZ-A. Here is the scorecard Yes. He was the captain of India A against NZ A, but it is clear that the previous set of selectors kept him below the rung of Rohit-Badri-Kohli as far as test grooming is concerned. BS. Your saying these letters won't change the fact that the present set of selectors are moving blindly, groping in dark, as far as replacing the MO positions or grooming replacements for those position is concerned. They are gambling with one player or the other without testing him for that position in longer format. In that way Vengsarkar and co had better vision. They moved quite systematically about it as well.
youngindia Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Yes. He was the captain of India A against NZ A' date=' but it is clear that the previous set of selectors kept him below the rung of Rohit-Badri-Kohli as far as test grooming is concerned..[/quote'] not true. Raina has always been up there. vengasarkar was a early backer of raina whereas the current chairman srikanth was a critic of raina when he went thru his bad form. he went thru a bad slump at a particular point and had to fight his way back. there is no basis to your assumption that he was ever regarded one day material. His game is more tighter and not even comparable to the free flowing-high backlift game of yuvraj that puts him in trouble in tests. There is no rhyme or reason to regard raina as a short form guy.
urbestfriend Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Yes. He was the captain of India A against NZ A, but it is clear that the previous set of selectors kept him below the rung of Rohit-Badri-Kohli as far as test grooming is concerned Your saying these letters won't change the fact that the present set of selectors are moving blindly, groping in dark, as far as replacing the MO positions or grooming replacements for those position is concerned. They are gambling with one player or the other without testing him for that position in longer format. In that way Vengsarkar and co had better vision. They moved quite systematically about it as well. How can you say that? Way back in 2006, he was picked for test squad for West Indies tour. It is unfortunate that he got injured for an year or so during Vengasarkar's regime hence he wasn't picked for any A or BP-XI squads during that time. But dunno how did you conclude selectors kept him below the rung of Rohit,Badri-Kohli for test grooming?. If thats the case why would they make him captain for India-A squad for test series?
Chandan Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 But dunno how did you conclude selectors kept him below the rung of Rohit' date='Badri-Kohli for test grooming?. If thats the case why would they make him captain for India-A squad for test series?[/quote'] Because: 1. BP XI was facing the international stars. Hence our first choice replacements were playing in that match. 2. A FC match, that too with NZ A which comprisised of that country's aspiring stars, was taking place at the same time and thus our second choice emerging players were there in that India A team. Just before that BP XI and NZ A FC match, we had two unofficial tests with Aus A too and Raina was not chosen for that: Scorecard And my conclusion this way or that way hasn't got to do anthing. I just want Raina to prove himself against good international bowlers in the longer format before coming in for tests. If he doesn't do that, all of us, including selectors, would be groping in dark about him being a good prospect for tests.
youngindia Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 I just want Raina to prove himself against good international bowlers in the longer format before coming in for tests. If he doesn't do that' date=' all of us, including selectors, would be groping in dark about him being a good prospect for tests.[/quote'] Not really. Any guy, who has been formally trained in cricket(with good quality) would know to observe, how strong a guy is in defence. That 's what cricketrs do all their life. There is nothing that worrying about raina's defence. Also raina has played many international bowlers(albeit in shorter forms) already and it has demonstrated his ability to face international bowlers- w.r.t reaction time as well reading them. On this basis, he needs to be given an opportunity. Where he comes poor is in closing his eyes to the short ball. In tests, he has to sway and also get hit a few times. also he has to leave balls outside offstump carefully for long periods. That can be observed only over a lengthy period of time. More A tours are certainly a must as far as bcci is cocncerned.
The Outsider Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Kohli looks to be the most accomplished test batsman in the reserves. I would pick him over Yuvraj and Badrinath as well. The only real technical fault he has is his occasional tendency to bring the bat down from the third slip direction, but he has worked on that even on ODIs. And that to me has been the most remarkable characteristic of the guy. Not only has he scored runs at every opportunity he has been given, and that too against the best of attacks, he has constantly shown a willingness to work on his faults and do so very quickly. Just a few ODIs into his career, he has learned all the good things like rotating the strike, timing an assault, seeing out the better bowlers. Things which can take players up to 40-50 ODIs to master. He is just a cut above the rest of the competition. That special talent and personality, which you somehow sense is just not going to fail. Raina, is talented in his own way but he is no Kohli. For starters, there is no evidence that he can build and play long innings against any attack forget about top international attacks. 6 First class centuries in 50 odd games is mediocre to say the least, so is an average in the early 40s. Neither did he play any major innings in the domestic season this year. Just too many boxes for him to put a check mark against, even before we get into his technical issues against short pitch bowling.
urbestfriend Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Because: 1. BP XI was facing the international stars. Hence our first choice replacements were playing in that match.. 2. A FC match, that too with NZ A which comprisised of that country's aspiring stars, was taking place at the same time and thus our second choice emerging players were there in that India A team. Thats because they wanted a good player to lead India-A team against NZ-A team in the unavailability of Badri, not because he is not test material. Moreover a) He was part of BP-XI squad and RCA - XI squad against visiting england team in 2006 b) He was also part of India squad for WI tour and played for India in tour matches Just before that BP XI and NZ A FC match, we had two unofficial tests with Aus A too and Raina was not chosen for that: How is it different from representing India A against NZ A? He was part of the squad , but didn't play against Australia - A :dontknow:
Chandan Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Thats because they wanted a good player to lead India-A team against NZ-A team in the unavailability of Badri' date=' not because he is not test material. [/quote'] This will be my last reply to you. At one time, selectors had to pick two teams of aspiring players. They put all the aspiring test players in the BP XI as you see because Yuvraj was here and he was later given a permanent place in tests after this series itself when Ganguly retired; Badri was here and selector's next choice MO batsman was Badrinath. They put Rohit and Kohli in there too as these were were test materials according to them. How is it different from representing India A against NZ A? He was part of the squad , but didn't play against Australia - A :dontknow: It was more like India B team against NZ A as the 1st choice replacements were in BP XI. If you have few worthy knocks of Raina against good attacks in longer formats, in view, why don't you post them here for us too, so that we doubters can just shut up?
The Outsider Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Just out of curiosity I dug up a list of Raina's first class hundreds : http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/78/78534.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/84/84448.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/103/103836.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/124/124502.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/124/124504.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/185/185797.html I am sorry, but none of them are against even a remotely strong attack close to international level. Here are Kohli's FC centuries : http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/124/124467.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/124/124471.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/187/187039.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/184/184753.html - against Lee, Johnson, Clark, and Siddle http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/251/251002.html - against P Kumar, RP Singh, P Chawla
riya Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Both look inadequate for tests.But I would give a chance to Kohli.
Jersey #10 Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Raina over Kohli any day Rohit Sharma over Kohli any day
Chandan Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Just out of curiosity I dug up a list of Raina's first class hundreds : http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/78/78534.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/84/84448.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/103/103836.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/124/124502.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/124/124504.html http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Scorecards/185/185797.html I knew that Shwetabh and that is why I'm a bit apprehensive about Raina's test call. I don't say that he can't play test but he hasn't come through the ranks like Kohli and Rohit who excelled in these matches against international class bowlers, or Badrinath even if he failed in these BP XI or A unofficial tests or Irani trophy.Raina simply has not gone through this cycle to earn this call. His talent is quite visible in the ODIs but whether he'll be able to transfer it into tests is a mystry because he has not scored in any such matches, hasn't got too many opportunities too. Selectors should have given him opportunities in these kind of matches before even thinking of choosing him for tests.
Show_stopper Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 This will be my last reply to you. At one time, selectors had to pick two teams of aspiring players. They put all the aspiring test players in the BP XI as you see because Yuvraj was here and he was later given a permanent place in tests after this series itself when Ganguly retired; Badri was here and selector's next choice MO batsman was Badrinath. They put Rohit and Kohli in there too as these were were test materials according to them. Its funny how you conclude that those who played for BP XI were the only test prospects and those who played for Ind 'A' against NZ 'A' weren't test worthy. Yet I see m Vijay was part of the Ind 'A' team..and ironically made his test debut before both Rohit and Kohli..all because Ganguly felt he was a good "talent". :hysterical: yet I do not see any voices being raised against Vijay's inclusion in the Test squad..that too as a first choice replacement no less. I'm interested what is Vijay's record like in 'A' tours..particularly abroad or against Int'l quality attacks? I'm asking becuse I do not know where to llok for List 'A' detailed stats. To my mind Murali has been great in Ranjis but I do not remember hearing about his performances on List 'A' circuit.
Lord Posted February 10, 2010 Posted February 10, 2010 Raina's FC average-44.28 Kohli's FC average-55.76
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