The Tendulkar Fatigue Syndrome

[Dhondy]

I suspect its for the IPL .... nice eye candy to oogle at there ehh Doc :--D :headshake:

At my age? You are kidding. Do you know there are 40 year old grandparents in Britain? :cantstop:

[Gunner_Mania]

Dhondy - What was the point of this thread again? Your complaint seem to be that this board has lost its quality and generated into a Sachin fan board? Didn't you exactly stoke that same fanaticism by posting soemthing that most people read as being "anti-Sachin" and this thread went into the direction of Sachin v XYZ thread. You seem to be no different from the rest here in that that while most are Pro Sachin and and can't accept anything against him, you seem to can't accept any thing pro him. Isn't that what opinons are all about? May be you could lead the way in starting more posts that are not Sachin oriented - pro or against - and if they all move in the direction of a Sachin v XYZ form then this perhaps is not a place for non-Sachin fans (and no I don't mean just you). My two pennies. I am not stats person so can't contribute much by way of stats.

[Mr. Wicket]

Dhondy - What was the point of this thread again? Your complaint seem to be that this board has lost its quality and generated into a Sachin fan board?

A very fair point. If you feel that the board is generating into the TendulkarFans forum, why not start a thread or two on some other players rather than yet another Tendulkar-centric thread? Would seriously love to read your writing on a player like Gilchrist, Kumble, Warne, Taylor, Donald, Srinath or the like. Would freshen the board up a good deal rather than give us yet another Tendulkar topic that's already been debated to death on here by the same folks.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Dhondy]

Dhondy - What was the point of this thread again? Your complaint seem to be that this board has lost its quality and generated into a Sachin fan board? Didn't you exactly stoke that same fanaticism by posting soemthing that most people read as being "anti-Sachin" and this thread went into the direction of Sachin v XYZ thread. You seem to be no different from the rest here in that that while most are Pro Sachin and and can't accept anything against him, you seem to can't accept any thing pro him. Isn't that what opinons are all about? May be you could lead the way in starting more posts that are not Sachin oriented - pro or against - and if they all move in the direction of a Sachin v XYZ form then this perhaps is not a place for non-Sachin fans (and no I don't mean just you). My two pennies. I am not stats person so can't contribute much by way of stats.

Gunner, I appreciate your concerns, but i have been posting here for over 3 years, you know. There are several badly written (as usual) articles where I have gone gaga over Sachin and a mountain of stats posts where I have outlined exactly why is one of the two or three premier bats of our generation. Don't waste your time looking them up- they are not worth your time- just take my word for it. I didn't rant or rave about Sachin's fans- just one gentle moan in one post- that this place somehow has turned into a Tendulkar fan club. Do you think it was overdone?

[riya]

For the last few days there have been more Sachin (anti) threads than ever before.Heck even some of the past threads have been bumped too. I was thinking who are exactly ''obsessed '' with Sachin here.His fans or haters?

[Gunner_Mania]

Gunner, I appreciate your concerns, but i have been posting here for over 3 years, you know. There are several badly written (as usual) articles where I have gone gaga over Sachin and a mountain of stats posts where I have outlined exactly why is one of the two or three premier bats of our generation. Don't waste your time looking them up- they are not worth your time- just take my word for it. I didn't rant or rave about Sachin's fans- just one gentle moan in one post- that this place somehow has turned into a Tendulkar fan club. Do you think it was overdone?

I'll take you word about your posts from yester years. I don't think it was overdone, I just think that somebody with your passion and intellect would have perhaps channeled and used the Tendulkar Fatigue Syndrome as the ideal opportunity to move the focus on some of the other aspects of cricket. One of my biggest grouses about that 200 was that bar one thread nobody so much as even mentioned Dhoni's contribution in passing.

[Bumper]

Dhondy - What was the point of this thread again? Your complaint seem to be that this board has lost its quality and generated into a Sachin fan board? Didn't you exactly stoke that same fanaticism by posting soemthing that most people read as being "anti-Sachin" and this thread went into the direction of Sachin v XYZ thread. You seem to be no different from the rest here in that that while most are Pro Sachin and and can't accept anything against him, you seem to can't accept any thing pro him. Isn't that what opinons are all about? May be you could lead the way in starting more posts that are not Sachin oriented - pro or against - and if they all move in the direction of a Sachin v XYZ form then this perhaps is not a place for non-Sachin fans (and no I don't mean just you). My two pennies. I am not stats person so can't contribute much by way of stats.

I havent seen you post here much. But I can see what Dhondy is saying. You wont know if you havent followed the board for a while. When Sachin achieves a once in a life time milestone like a 200, few adulation threads are fair enough (even then a dozen threads on him is a bit OTT). But threads such as SRT vs this batsman, SRT vs that batsman, SRT vs Bradman is a bit off putting for regular visitors TBH. These threads may be interesting for people who have not been on MBs that often, but for folks who have been around here for a while, its friggin boring. Its the same thing over and over again. How many times are we going to discuss that XYZ averages that much in 4th innings & SRT averages this much. SRT has more away 100s, XYZ has less ? I would love to read a diff spin on the same, a diff interpretation of stats, not the same mundane comparison of cricinfo stats. Every body has the right to complain (after all thats what message boards are for). Dhondy's complaint wont change the way posters conduct themselves here. But it might just make an avg fan who shows up here think before opening up a thread. Nothing wrong with that!

[Bumper]

Case in point. A ridiculous thread: SRT vs Ponting: http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=210939 I dont know what the poster here is trying to say. He lists some numbers (as if you cant get this from cricinfo yourself). No conclusions, no assertions, no interpretations. 65 responses. To me this thread is a big yawner..

[Sachinism]

I'll take you word about your posts from yester years. I don't think it was overdone, I just think that somebody with your passion and intellect would have perhaps channeled and used the Tendulkar Fatigue Syndrome as the ideal opportunity to move the focus on some of the other aspects of cricket. One of my biggest grouses about that 200 was that bar one thread nobody so much as even mentioned Dhoni's contribution in passing.

flamy made a thread on Dhoni for that innings, it got some posts, obviously its not gonna get as much attention as a 200* for the first time in ODI cricket. I support all Indian crickets equally, some just a bit more equally than others :--D

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Sachinism]

one the flip side there is no end to the mindless accusations that are leveled against SRT . This is cleverly disguised as "objectivity" so as to gain moral high ground . But what part of "ohh he doesnt score under preshure" .... "ohh he doesnt do well against Team-X when player ABC is around but does well when XYZ is around" ... "doesnt perform well in Inngs N where N varies from 1 to 4 depending on who is being bigged up" .... I mean is there an end to this ?

Thank you and when there is a thread like that then 'the defenders' come out, its gotta be done. Anyway as has been discussed in this thread, lets discuss other cricketers

[Ram]

I am fascinated and at the same time puzzled by the allegation made by Doc and Bumper that this is turning into some sort of Sachin fan club, where his praises are sung day and day out. Is there some truth in it? Possibly. At the same time, is it wrong for fans to glorify their heroes? Probably not. To really get a wholesome answer to the points raised by Doc and Bumper, we should probably recognize that fact that, demographically speaking, a vast proportion of the Indian fans who register on to ICF to become members are in the age-group of 15-25. I would venture to say that almost 85-90% of the board's members are in that age-group. You'd probably find only a handful of people on the other side of 30. Now, to the other relevant stat of the day - Sachin's career now spans 20 years and 5 months. Anybody see any co-incidence? Yes, a huge number of us, including yours truly, have grown up watching Sachin play. In fact, our first initiation to cricket was probably hearing the name Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar, which was then followed by a watching a strong dose of his exploits on the cricket field. So, it isnt any surprise that for most Indiancricketfans, Sachin is that sort of larger than life figure that transcends anything else. In short, to many of us, he was the intro, plot and climax of Indian cricket. Therefore, it should be no surprise to anyone that many of us hold him very dear to our heart. He was our first hero and still continues to be one. To some of us, he is immortal. To a lot of us, he's as flawless as a mortal can be. I might sound a bit melodramatic but, you will get a sense of how important Sachin as a persona is, if you read the accounts of someone like Holysmoke. When you get your head around what he has to say on Sachin, you really do get a sense that this is no mere fan-sportsperson relationship. It is something way way beyond that. Of course, I am not claim that every 20-something Indian fan is as passionate about Sachin, but the point still remains that, to many of his fans, Sachin is no mere sporting hero. But on the other side of the fence, are people like Doc, Bumper and Lurker. All of them are seasoned cricket followers. To them, Sachin was probably not the first thing they heard about Indian cricket, he's just another Indian player, but a very good one at that. Hence, their rigorous standards of fairness and objectivity when it comes to assessing players does not waver when studying Sachin. In short, their view of Sachin is not through a pair of glasses doped with passion and fanaticism. And you can clearly see that reflect in their posts. Not to say that they have been routinely unfairly critical of Sachin, but they're far less hesitant than others, when it comes to highlighting his foibles. I suppose that seasoned cricket followers Lurker, Doc and Bumper must reconcile to the fact that Sachin is THE most worshiped cricketer in world history and its only natural that this adulation reflects on a message board that they helped create and grow. As free-thinking men, they probably want fruitful discussion on a good variety of topics, rather than the mundane focus of the exploits one particular man. But they must accept the fact that, after all, its no sin to celebrate and venerate the career of a cricketer who has shown himself to be the Colossus among mere men. You could create a 1000 Sachin praise threads here on ICF and still that wouldnt do justice to the depth of contributions made by that man to our cricket and nation. Having said that, I do have a pet peeve to vent here. If you really like Sachin (which most of us do here), the last thing should be doing is to grab of bunch of his career numbers from the cricinfo's stats db, compare it with the same of say a Ponting or a Kallis, just to show he's better or worse. Thats not being a fan, that just playing a silly game of one-upsmanship. People who think the whole range and scope of someone's contribution on a cricket field can be fully encapsulated by a set of numbers in a database need to re-asses the way they look at sportsmen and sports. That doesnt do justice at all to the growing legacy of this fantastic cricketer. Sachin's career is legend in the works. To tear it apart and conduct visceral analysis of it using previously unseen statistical benchmarks is totally missing the point, whether you're arguing in favor of him, or against him. No cricketer's career is flawless, even the Don's. But Sachin's exploits are as close as modern-day cricketer can get, to professional excellence. The discussion should end there. And to just finish off, I think Dhondy's allegation that Sachin deliberately walked off, even though he actually didnt hit the ball against Shoaib Akhtar is a preposterous insinuation. People have said Sachin does not deliver under pressure. Others have said he plays for statistical landmarks. Heck, at one point, even I've accused of playing differently when faced with a looming landmark. There's probably a small element of truth in all of that, but to allege that Sachin simply cowered away from the crease because of he was afraid to face a bowler is something I find hard to even grasp. Would a man gripped with these insecurities and inner fears be capable of lasting 21 years in international cricket and yet be the benchmark for others to follow? I dont think so. I am disappointed that, someone like our honorable Doc has chosen to make that allegation. I can understand if the same came from a newbie member trying to seek attention, but the Doc..... Sad. Signed, Sachin Fan.

[Gunner_Mania]

flamy made a thread on Dhoni for that innings, it got some posts, obviously its not gonna get as much attention as a 200* for the first time in ODI cricket. I support all Indian crickets equally, some just a bit more equally than others :--D

Yes and if you notice, I acknowledged it my post that you quoted:D

[Gunner_Mania]

Bumper - Yes. I've not been around here for as long as you have been here. I am a relative newbie compared to some of you, but I have seen my fair share of messageboard not necessarily just cricket. As you said in one of your earlier posts when growth happens and at a fast rate quality is likely to be a casualty. Where people have an issue with Sachin centric posts what is the point in writing another Sachin centric post and thene excpect that the post is not going to go int another 'mindless comparison' as you put it As Sriram suggests and I too did earlier - albeit not with as much elan as Sriram - for most Indian cricket fans who grew up watching cricket in the mid 90s to the early part of the last decade, Sachin Tendulkar was the be all and end all of Indian cricket. Amongst all the heart breaks that was endured following the Indian cricket team, Sachin was the sole silver lining most often than not among the dark clouds and hence the out pouring of the adulation. Like I said may be people like Dhondy and yourself perhaps can initate discussions on players and aspects of cricket not including Sachin Tendulkar.

[Sachinism]

Marirs :congrats: fantastic post

[Bumper]

Sriram & Boss thanks for your response. I think there is a common theme in both your posts. Perhaps you guys missed the point I was trying to make. To me its not about the theme of the threads that is annoying. All am saying is that let posters make whatever point they want. But let them do it in a way that makes it worthy of a read. You would hardly see me complain about Boss's stats threads on SRT. Most of them are educational. I always walk away from Boss's threads with the impression that I knew something that I did not before. Am reasonable enough to understand that not every thread can pack a punch, but you cant deny that a gazillion inane threads on a single man will be annoying to the regulars. Ideally threads should have some value to attract more eyeballs-- be it educational, comical, discussion centric or debate oriented. Just plain chit chat threads wont help keep up the appeal this site has built over the years. Again, I am not saying (and I dont believe Dhondy is saying that either) that posters should not be opening such threads. Thats everything against the ideals of this place. Rather merely venting a frustration on some thing I see as annoying. I dont think there is anything wrong with that. You should treat this thread as Dhondy's or my personal opinion. Ofcourse, its a bit rich for a guy like me who shows up once in a while here to be telling you mods how this place should be. I am mindful of that. But if you take this as an opinion of mine, you will see that the points made in this thread are not as unacceptable as you lot think.

[Dhondy]

Sriram, thank you for an incredibly well written, articulate post. You've opened a window into the soul of yourself and other younger posters for me. Apologies to Tendulkar fans for any offence caused. The reference to Shoaib was baggage from another site and was irrelevant to the present. I agree it was badly timed. I admire the younger lot's enthusiasm and optimism here. This forum needs a fresh start and it's going to come from you guys. Wash away the old, the tired, the ugliness and defeatism that comes with age and usher in the new.

[Rajiv]

Shoiab Reference didn't go down well, especially the Asian Test Championship one as he was involved in that unfortunate run out, [sachin fan] says he was looking good before that

[sandeep]

As others have mentioned, Tendy was run-out in the calcutta test (when he was blocked by the bowler i believe). This player-vs-player stat is a foolish stat to be used in evaluating batsman's quality. It is a narrow selective cross-section of a small sample, which is by definition, meaningless. If a batsman scores a 100, but only faces a particular bowler in the early part of his innings, say when he's come in after a fall of a couple of wickets, his player vs player "strike rate" will be abysmal. How can so-called "astute" and knowledgeable fans use such a faltoo stat is beyond me. And regarding the BS accusation that Sachin was afraid. Apparently, some people have the capability of reading minds while watching TV, nothing to do with their own personal state of mind, expectations, disappointment etc - totally objective. Its one thing to say, that the worshipping crap is getting tiresome - it absolutely is. But to go on from that and try to "cut him down to size" based on BS? As Sriram said, its sad.