Sachinism Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Belgium's lower house of parliament has voted for a law that would ban women from wearing the full Islamic face veil in public. The law would ban any clothing that obscures the identity of the wearer in places like parks and on the street. No-one voted against it. The law now goes to the Senate, where it may face challenges over its wording, which may delay it. If passed, the ban would be the first move of its kind in Europe. Only around 30 women wear this kind of veil in Belgium, out of a Muslim population of around half a million. The BBC's Dominic Hughes in Brussels says MPs backed the legislation on the grounds of security, to allow police to identify people. Other MPs said that the full face veil was a symbol of the oppression of women, our correspondent says. Senate approval Thursday's vote was almost unanimous with 134 MPs in support of the law and two abstentions. It is expected to pass through the Senate without being blocked, with initial reports saying it could come into law as early as June or July. But the Liberals and Christian Democrats - both represented in the Senate - say they will question the phrasing of the law, which could cause delays. It will also take longer to become law if elections are called, as parliament would have to be dissolved. The Belgium government collapsed last week. The Muslim Executive of Belgium has criticised the move, saying it would lead to women who do wear the full veil to be trapped in their homes. Amnesty International said a ban would set a "dangerous precedent". In a statement, the human rights group said it would "violate the rights to freedom of expression and religion of those women who wear the burqa or niqab as an expression of their identity and beliefs". The ban would be imposed in all buildings or grounds that are "meant for public use or to provide services", including streets, parks and sports grounds. Exceptions could be made for certain festivals. Those who break the law could face a fine of 15-25 euros (£13-£27) or a seven-day jail sentence.
Jadoo Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Belgium's lower house of parliament has voted for a law that would ban women from wearing the full Islamic face veil in public. The Muslim Executive of Belgium has criticised the move, saying it would lead to women who do wear the full veil to be trapped in their homes. Amnesty International said a ban would set a "dangerous precedent". Those who break the law could face a fine of 15-25 euros (£13-£27) or a seven-day jail sentence. That comment sounds a bit silly.
mhr123 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Nuns can wear veil ... no issues... others can wear bikini ... no issues... Muslim women wear veil ... big issue...:giggle:
Jadoo Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Nuns can wear veil ... no issues... others can wear bikini ... no issues... Muslim women wear veil ... big issue...:giggle: Not defending either side, but I can completely understand why people have issues with a face veil. Personally I would find it very disconcerting talking to someone whose face I could not even see. I think the veil acts like a barrier and causes disconnection.
The Outsider Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Nuns can wear veil ... no issues... others can wear bikini ... no issues... Muslim women wear veil ... big issue...:giggle: It's a legitimate security concern. There have already been suicide bombing attacks with terrorists disguised in a Burqa. The veils of nuns do not cover their faces, just the forehead.
mhr123 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 It's a legitimate security concern. There have already been suicide bombing attacks with terrorists disguised in a Burqa. The veils of nuns do not cover their faces, just the forehead. at least they shud allow Scarf to be on .. which is similar to NUN ... same like they have allowed in Germany ... Scarf is perfectly OK as the face can be seen.
Lurker Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Nuns can wear veil ... no issues... others can wear bikini ... no issues... Muslim women wear veil ... big issue...:giggle: Nuns = 0.0001% of population(if that). They dont worry about their "human rights" and in most cases are not seen everywhere enough to be misused. Bikini = Worn by women by swimming pools, or pool party. If anything it is extremely revealing and would serve no purpose to be misused. Plus it is a good case for equality amongst sexes where women have the right to do what they want. Burqa = Security concern and absolute sham of rights for a woman. Is worn everywhere from household to airport to malls to wherever. Dont see how you can compare the three mate. xxx
someone Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 ^^ Agree Good and brave decison by them as muslims are everywhere and will criticize every decision
The Outsider Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 at least they shud allow Scarf to be on .. which is similar to NUN ... same like they have allowed in Germany ... Scarf is perfectly OK as the face can be seen. Yeah, of course a scarf should be allowed. But I don't see anywhere in the OP, where the scarf has been subject of a ban. In fact it appears to be quite clear saying 'full veil' and they are going to debate the exact wording of the law further. As long as the face is visible, I don't see any reason for a ban.
mhr123 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Nuns = 0.0001% of population(if that). They dont worry about their "human rights" and in most cases are not seen everywhere enough to be misused. Bikini = Worn by women by swimming pools, or pool party. If anything it is extremely revealing and would serve no purpose to be misused. Plus it is a good case for equality amongst sexes where women have the right to do what they want. Burqa = Security concern and absolute sham of rights for a woman. Is worn everywhere from household to airport to malls to wherever. Dont see how you can compare the three mate. xxx Firstly we need to know why they have banned Veil ...if they have banned only for the security reason then its a different situation then its there own wish no one shud argue... but if they have banned because they consider the veil as a sign of oppression then its debatable.
Lurker Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Firstly we need to know why they have banned Veil ...if they have banned only for the security reason then its a different situation then its there own wish no one shud argue... but if they have banned because they consider the veil as a sign of oppression then its debatable. Personally I think the reasons shall include both. However what would be important, to me anyway, is not so much the reason but the fact that if Belgium enacts this law(say in the name of security), then France follows it, Switzerland does the same etc etc....before you know many country pass the law and further alienate the Islamic world. The question that needs to be raised is why are the Islamic scholars not asking their followers to do away with burqa, or issue a fatwa against it, on their own? If Western countries end up doing their work it would only fulfill the apprehension of "clash of civilizations". xxx
mhr123 Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 Personally I think the reasons shall include both. However what would be important, to me anyway, is not so much the reason but the fact that if Belgium enacts this law(say in the name of security), then France follows it, Switzerland does the same etc etc....before you know many country pass the law and further alienate the Islamic world. The question that needs to be raised is why are the Islamic scholars not asking their followers to do away with burqa, or issue a fatwa against it, on their own? If Western countries end up doing their work it would only fulfill the apprehension of "clash of civilizations". xxx TBH .. most of the scholars ( u have proper knowledge) have said Scarf is fine . Normally scarf is worn which shows the face but hides the hair and neck and its upto the bossom ... very similar to how the nuns wear. So if the face can been seen the security shouldn't be an issue. Now the point of oppression ... a person who is an engineer or a doctor will know what its to be a engineer or a doctor ... A muslim will know what its to be a muslim and its very similar in this case, does a Muslim women feel oppressed in scarf ? This has to be answered by a Muslim women herself. Luks i am not sure if u are in r touch with any Muslim girl who puts on veil .. if u do then u shud ask how she feels to put on veil , don't ask those who are illiterate .. but ask those who are educated and working women they can give answer u in a better way. If she feels that its her right to wear a veil then she shud be allowed .. but she shouldn't be forced to cover herself.
Lurker Posted April 30, 2010 Posted April 30, 2010 TBH .. most of the scholars ( u have proper knowledge) have said Scarf is fine . Normally scarf is worn which shows the face but hides the hair and neck and its upto the bossom ... very similar to how the nuns wear. So if the face can been seen the security shouldn't be an issue. By head scarfs I suppose you are hinting at hijaabs. To me hijaabs are completely fine, specially the one that does not hide the face. Regarding opression I am pretty sure most women would like to wear dresses/clothes that looks good on them, and they look good in those. It is simple basic human nature. Covering from head to toe is simply not liked by most, if not all. To give an example, quite a few of my Muslim friends, girls I mean, have admitted that given a choice they would like to wear skirts. But they can't. The closest skirts they wear are those that sit well below the knee and even then they have to wear longish socks and Ugg shoes with them. I am not going to suggest what they should or shouldnt do though. So long as its not a security concern I am fine. xxx
punjabi_khota Posted May 1, 2010 Posted May 1, 2010 TBH .. most of the scholars ( u have proper knowledge) have said Scarf is fine . Normally scarf is worn which shows the face but hides the hair and neck and its upto the bossom ... very similar to how the nuns wear. So if the face can been seen the security shouldn't be an issue. Now the point of oppression ... a person who is an engineer or a doctor will know what its to be a engineer or a doctor ... A muslim will know what its to be a muslim and its very similar in this case, does a Muslim women feel oppressed in scarf ? This has to be answered by a Muslim women herself. Luks i am not sure if u are in r touch with any Muslim girl who puts on veil .. if u do then u shud ask how she feels to put on veil , don't ask those who are illiterate .. but ask those who are educated and working women they can give answer u in a better way. If she feels that its her right to wear a veil then she shud be allowed .. but she shouldn't be forced to cover herself. I have yet to see a working educated (doctor,engineer,professor,businesswomen) EVER who wears a full-on face veil ....I am not sure if any exist apart from some random youtube videos.
Guest Gunner Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 I have yet to see a working educated (doctor' date='engineer,professor,businesswomen) EVER who wears a full-on face veil ....I am not sure if any exist apart from some random youtube videos.[/quote'] +1. Exactly what I was about to respond. Anyone who wears a complete Burqa is most definitely not in a highly professional career as far as I have seen.
mhr123 Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 I have yet to see a working educated (doctor' date='engineer,professor,businesswomen) EVER who wears a full-on face veil ....I am not sure if any exist apart from some random youtube videos.[/quote'] +1. Exactly what I was about to respond. Anyone who wears a complete Burqa is most definitely not in a highly professional career as far as I have seen. PK / Gunner... i am not taking abt those who wear Burqa ... i was talking of those who wear hijab , face is seen only the head is covered with scarf. I have never been to UK or US but have been to Germany were lot of women specially those new Muslims wear it .
zubinpepsi Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 mhr, no one here is arguing against a hijab..im not sure why you are bringing this up.. people have problems with the head-to-toe full cover burqa..
punjabi_khota Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 hijab is not banned...so discussing that is not relevant to this discussion.
Sooda Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 There are women who wear a veil and are professionals- rare but they exist. I know of two pharmacists. And if ladies do wear the veil and are not working professionals because of it-well then so what ? They have made that choice Less rare are women who wear the veil and are well educated. And as mhr says it is they who can know if they feel opressed by it.
Lurker Posted May 2, 2010 Posted May 2, 2010 There are women who wear a veil and are professionals- rare but they exist. I know of two pharmacists. And if ladies do wear the veil and are not working professionals because of it-well then so what ? They have made that choice Less rare are women who wear the veil and are well educated. And as mhr says it is they who can know if they feel opressed by it. On an average no person wants to be that. Muslim women are no different to Christian, Hindu or Jewish women. If the latter group women dont want to cover themselves head to toe, and also choose to educate themselves and get jobs, there is no reason to beleive a Muslim women is fundamentally different. Unless of course you are suggesting that Muslim women are indeed fundamentally different. In which case you are putting a dangerous precedence of dividing the world into Muslim and non-Muslim groups..which can only spell doom. xxx
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