Does Kirsten need to go?

[Sehwag fan]

I think in T20 it is very necessary to be unpredictable to win tournaments.. everybody knows how the indians play. Bowling in the death overs by malinga & perera showed that.They were just bowling full and wide to the indian batsmen accompanied by the "unplayable for Indians only" bouncers. But still bowling with such accuracy require skills which is not the case with the Indian bowlers. Removing Dhoni from T20 captaincy is a must for us to win any tournaments. He has been making too many mistakes lately.

[gs]

IPL nautanki has caused this fiasco - both last year as well as this time.

[sixnout]

He should stay and peg wet tennis balls at the batsmen from 10 yards away. :two_thumbs_up:

[Zap_Brannigan]

There were tactical mistakes done. But you are forgetting the main reason we lost to WI and Aus. We were bounced out. In tests and ODI's you can leave the bouncers alone. But in T20, we have to play it. That is the problem with everyone in this team. Every single batsman cannot play short balls. Ofcourse, our bowlers have always been crap.

[cowboysfan]

we are an above average odi side but very flawed which is not winning any tournaments in the near future.we win most matches with our batting.in a tournament you need to win 2 or 3 matches in a row against good teams with way better bowling lineup than us,that is very hard when our bowlers are not holding up their end of the bargain.

[Guest OriginalPrince]

no kirsten has done a good job. so has dhoni. they have to stay but i think india needs to get rid of flat track bullies gambhir and raina and start thinking about building a good core. they have done well recently but they need to start finding replacements for tendulkar, dravid and sehwag as well. good depth is more important than immediate results imo.

[Deleted_User_1]

For the fans that keep saying this is nothing and India is still #1 and #2 in tests and ODIs, I say the following: One of the problem with Indian team is that they get complacent and lose focus and when you have fans having the same kind of complacency you wonder where they get it. India has a chalta hai attitude, and unless that is remedied, consistency will not happen. India got to no. 1 and 2 in tests and ODIs due to good batting, but more importantly good bowling since mid 2007. But where is that bowling attack now? Jumbo is retired, newbies like Pissant, RP, Irfan have deteriorated and some are out of action. Sreesanth is in/out and full of tantrums. We have only got Bhajji who struggles overseas and Zak who seems like age and drinking is taking its toll. He now ambles in and bowls dollies. He has so far made up with his guile and experience, but I am not hopeful that he will be as potent on foreign soil against quality teams. I think in the next 18-20 months, you will see India falter in tests (and ODIs) as they have a lot of tours coming up (SL, SA, Eng and Aus). If the current performance is an indicator, I think they will struggle. And I even shudder to think what would happen once SRT, Dravid and Laxman retire. They will be bottom feeders for some time to come. But, hey I am just a pessimist and lack the complacency that some of you have. :winky:

[imran666]

kick Kirsten out ..lalit modi as indian coach with sharukh khan as batting coach ..preety zinta fiellding coach ..R JADEJA new captain :hysterical:

[TheWall]

or maybe the next IPL in WI :hysterical:

[SJS50]

Why not sack Manmohan Singh as well while we are at it . . . . :hmmm:

[EnterTheVoid]

Is it me or are people getting stupider by the day FFS, when will this tournament be over ?

[SJS50]

I am reminded of the hue and cry in India after India were bundled out of the 2007 ODI World Cup. I then wrote the following piece. It is just over three years and it still makes interesting reading . . . and isn't irrelevant is it ??

THURSDAY, MARCH 29, 2007

WAKE UP INDIA! . . . and grow up for God’s sake!

Home truths for the Blue Billion….and some

Here are some of the reactions of cricket fans on the electronic media after the loss to Sri Lanka that sealed India’s fate in the World Cup 2007.

- It’s a bloody disgrace. Chappell should be sacked. - Ganguly is the only one who plays for the team. - I am disgusted. I am never going to watch cricket again. - Dravid has done nothing as captain except become a ‘chamcha’ (lackey) of Greg Chappell. - Bring back Dalmiya. Make Ganguly captain. - The whole world must be laughing at us. The richest board in the world. The richest cricketers in the game and this is how we perform. - Its scandalous. I am shocked and devastated. It’s a national shame.

India is upset because we lost to Sri Lanka so am I but I am not shocked. India is shocked that we lost to Bangladesh. So am I but I am not devastated and certainly don’t think it’s a disgrace or a national shame. You know what’s a disgrace? It’s a disgrace that Dhoni’s house was damaged in Ranchi. It’s a disgrace that Sachin’s house and other property have to be provided special protection from ‘lovers’ of the ‘game’. You think the world is laughing at us because we did not proceed to the next round. Well you are wrong. But you can not blame them if they are amused at how we react to it. One can write about what could be done differently by Team India and one intends to on another day but even that would just be an opinion howsoever well argued and thought out. However, this piece is not about that. This is about some home truths that we, the ‘Blue Billion’, need to confront. As with all home truths these are harsh to the ears and bitter to tongue. But howsoever painful they are to the ear drums they need to be heard and howsoever bitter to the tongue they need to be swallowed, nay chewed, and not spat out in rage. For we are in need of strong medicine much more desperately than our cricket and cricketers are. Here they are: 1. Cricket is played and watched by mortals : Firstly, cricket is played by mortals, against other mortals. Sometimes these other mortals can play the game as well as us and some times much better than us. Secondly it is played in a real world. Deifying your cricket stars does not turn them into Gods. They remain mortals. As much subject to the vagaries of loss of form, poor fitness, poor attitude, bad luck or plain poor skills. Others can and will, sometimes at the very least, outdo them in one or more of these and other areas that affect a team’s performance. At those times we will lose. And its not subject purely to a law of averages. Better teams WILL win more often than lesser teams and if we are losing more often we may simply not be the better team. I don’t know if Lord Ganesh or Ma Ambe are watching the world cup but I doubt if all the havans (rituals where offerings are made to the holy fire and Gods) and jagratas (nightlong religious chanting) are likely to help either. Cant say if its because of indifference of Lord/Ma Ganesh and Ambe towards cricket and Indian cricketers or a problem between Indian Gods and those supporting other countries. We need to stop sleep-walking into a dreamland where all players who fail in a losing campaign are villains to be shunned while those who did not make the side somehow appear to have a halo around them. A cricketing world inhabited by mortal heroes may be easier to deal with than one where only infallible Gods and devilish villains are allowed to tread. Let us allow our cricketers to inhabit the real world, our world, and we will make things easier for them and for ourselves. 2. A Billion dollars do not guarantee a World Cup…nor do a billion people : Just because we have by far the richest cricket board in the world or because our cricketers earn millions from the game and billions from endorsements does not make our claim to the trophy bigger or our ouster at the first step so staggeringly difficult to comprehend. All that the billions ensure is that they attract all types to the game, its administration and its marketing. Power will and has become the primary factor in the running of the game and we know who are the truly powerful in our part of the world. The cricketers don’t become better with money and the administration of the game does become, in fact, can become deficient in some respects when the amount touches such gigantic proportions. That again is another subject for another discussion on another day. There is another common refrain of the Indian fan. “It’s a shame we are more than a billion people and we lose to countries like New Zealand and Australia who are no more, in number, than those in our Metros!â€. Having been ruled for centuries by those from very small nations one would have thought we would have learnt long back that quantity or sheer numbers stopped mattering in the world long time ago. 3. The game is played on 22 yards of grass and not 22 inches of a glass screen : Just because the jokers on the mushrooming news channels find new heroes, new villains and new conspiracy theories every three and a half days doesn’t mean that anyone wasting his time listening to them is going to become an instant expert in all aspects of the game. If you believe, with justification, that the BCCI honchos are in it for the money and neither care for nor know much about the game you may be fairly spot on. If you believe, with much less justification, that the cricketers care only for the money and not for the game you are probably right about the money aspect but a bit harsh about not caring for the game. But does anyone have any view about the electronic media. They are not in it because they care for the game. They are not in it because they understand the game. What most of them know about the game can be written on a TV knob. They are not in it for the money – plain and simple. The SMS message they ask the Blue Billion to send on team selection, the ills of Indian cricket, the remedies for Indian cricket’s illness, who should be captain or coach, who is the real villain etc etc are all meant to make us feel that you can bat better, bowl better, lead better, coach better, select better, administer better and judge better than any one else. But all it does is that the millions of messages keep the cash registers ringing and the billions keep pouring in from better viewer ship. One has no issues with that. These are commercial enterprises and they are there to make money. The problem is the power of the electronic media. The number of people who are conditioned by the idiot box (how appropriate that sounds at times) is staggering. It’s a fact that while those who are getting passionate (obsessive may be more appropriate) about the game are growing in numbers, cricket-illiteracy has reached unprecedented levels in our country. This is a fact. It is becoming increasingly difficult to get into a cricket discussion which combines objectivity and knowledge of the game with personal opinions. This was not always the case. That is a huge loss. The idiot box is reducing the level of cricket debate in the country as it is in many other areas. Again the quantity (the many of hours devoted by news channels everyday to cricket) counts for zilch. There are still a few good writers in the print media but their reach is limited. 4. The coach is not allowed to bat bowl or field : Just Imagine. We have 11 Gods playing for us and another four waiting on the sidelines. A few dozen Gods rooting for us from the heavens and this devilish mortal from Australia, with an arrogant manner (when compared to his soft spoken predecessor) and an upward pointing middle finger, manages to turn all of them into pygmies and worse. Incredible! Greg Chappell has not scored a single duck, not dropped a single catch, not missed a single run out, not muffed a single stumping, not bowled a single long hop or full toss for India. That honour belongs to the our ‘Gods’ in blue. And irrespective of what that kid on TV might claim, even they did not do it because Chappell instructed them to do so. And yet he is ‘Public Enemy # 1’ and castigated by one and all for Indian cricket’s predicament. I once wrote an article called “Saas Bahu aur Chappellâ€. For the uninitiated, the title is a spoof on a TV serial called Saas Bahu aur Saazish meaning “Daughter-in-law, mother-in-law and Conspiracy†which was a spoof on another atrocious and popular never-ending soap opera on Indian television. In transferring it from my laptop to the desktop I lost the file in an operating system crash. Sheer laziness stopped me from writing it all over again. I mention it here to point to the role played by the media in painting Chappell with the black brush. This is not to say that the coach has no role to play in the game. Yes he has and a good coach IS different from a bad coach. Also two good coaches may differ on the process to be followed (not by and large on the technical aspects of the game). However, lets understand that if you switched Whatmore and Buchannan around, the fortunes of Australia and Bangla Desh will not change dramatically. Both are good coaches and both may bring about some new ideas in their new jobs but at the end of the day, Bangladesh cricketers will have to make a massive improvement in their skills to be under Buchannan what Australia were under Whatmore. And, more pertinently, Whatmore is not going to bring Australia down to Bangladesh level. Only terrible cricket by Australians will do that. One may not agree with Chappell on some issues but he is not responsible for Indian cricketers performing poorly. We may change him and in all probability will but Indian cricket will not necessarily improve just by changing the coach. Pakistan continue to flounder not because of the departed Bob Woolmer’s stintas their coach but in spite of it. If cruel hands had not taken him away so tragically he would surely have been humiliated and sacked by Pakistan Cricket establishment. Don’t lend even a partial ear to all that is being said today in that country about how great a coach he was and how much he did for Pakistan cricket. India and Pakistan need to look at how they treat their coaches and captains. Look at the successful teams around the world and look at how they treat them and we may have a better idea about what’s wrong with our cricket. By the way, a good coach is a good coach. He is not white or coloured - indigenous or foreigner. Whatmore is not a a Bengali, Wright wasn’t an Indian, Sandeep Patil wasn’t a Kenyan and Woolmer wasn’t Irish. India needs a good coach and if it is an Indian - great. If it’s a South African – so what? To say that we must have an Indian coach is as stupidly parochial as saying that Wasim and Waqar are traitors to Pakistan for allegedly considering coaching Indian bowlers. 5. Believe it or not – but it really is just a game : Just because we invoke the Gods to help us get the world cup doesn’t make it religion. Just because we fight over a single player’s selection in the country’s parliament doesn’t make it a matter of national importance. Just because we burn effigies of captain and coach on our streets, damage the houses of cricketers, issue threats to their families doesn’t mean we love the game and our country’s prestige and image more than those who don’t. All it does is to show to the world at large that we do not understand a simple basic truth about cricket. That it’s just a game. Nothing more and nothing less. Remember this and we can discuss the game, Indian cricket and what should be our team for the next series. It is great fun doing that and remains one of the most enjoyable aspects of this beautiful game. Ignore this fact and all we can do is rave and rant. The enjoyment is lost both from watching the game and discussing it. Remember then that your frustration, dejection, disgust and feeling of apparent disgrace are purely of your own making. Some of the highlighted portions are for this post :-)

[Gunner_Mania]

The Realist :hmmm:

[achilles]

No. Dump Dhoni instead. Go for the 2 captain theory like England - 1 Skipper for ODI & Tests, 2nd skipper for T20s (so that we can get rid of Dhoni's singles in this format)

[Dinx - the Jinx]

For the fans that keep saying this is nothing and India is still #1 and #2 in tests and ODIs, I say the following: One of the problem with Indian team is that they get complacent and lose focus and when you have fans having the same kind of complacency you wonder where they get it. India has a chalta hai attitude, and unless that is remedied, consistency will not happen. India got to no. 1 and 2 in tests and ODIs due to good batting, but more importantly good bowling since mid 2007. But where is that bowling attack now? Jumbo is retired, newbies like Pissant, RP, Irfan have deteriorated and some are out of action. Sreesanth is in/out and full of tantrums. We have only got Bhajji who struggles overseas and Zak who seems like age and drinking is taking its toll. He now ambles in and bowls dollies. He has so far made up with his guile and experience, but I am not hopeful that he will be as potent on foreign soil against quality teams. I think in the next 18-20 months, you will see India falter in tests (and ODIs) as they have a lot of tours coming up (SL, SA, Eng and Aus). If the current performance is an indicator, I think they will struggle. And I even shudder to think what would happen once SRT, Dravid and Laxman retire. They will be bottom feeders for some time to come. But, hey I am just a pessimist and lack the complacency that some of you have. :winky:

Spot on danda... the T20 haters are just pushing this under as if T20 is not important at all and its inconsequential.. point is, the poor performance in T20 can surely start affecting the ODI and Test performance as well... And we are not good in ODI big tournaments either. We are wining bilateral series left and right. But the moment a third team is added and there is a final, we lose. We did not make the second round on 2006 CT, 2007 WC and 2009 CT. more than Ranking I would say that winning big tournaments is what is important, which we havent done for so many years. I hope ppl take this defeat seriously. If T20 WC is so trivial, then why dont we send the India A team/? We wouldnt care if that team lost.

[Gunner_Mania]

Spot on danda... the T20 haters are just pushing this under as if T20 is not important at all and its inconsequential.. point is, the poor performance in T20 can surely start affecting the ODI and Test performance as well... And we are not good in ODI big tournaments either. We are wining bilateral series left and right. But the moment a third team is added and there is a final, we lose. We did not make the second round on 2006 CT, 2007 WC and 2009 CT. more than Ranking I would say that winning big tournaments is what is important, which we havent done for so many years. I hope ppl take this defeat seriously. If T20 WC is so trivial, then why dont we send the India A team/? We wouldnt care if that team lost.

You still would.

[Dinx - the Jinx]

You still would.

May be yes. But expectation and pain of loss would be lot lesser. When Sachin and Co opted to sit out of the first T20WC, nobody thought we would win. We watched the tournament unfold with curiosity and not with undue expectations...

[Holysmoke]

:haha: We're #1 in tests and #2 or so in ODI's and you want to sack the coach coz we didnt make it to the last 4 of a T20 competition. :hehe:

[Sachinism]

no kirsten has done a good job. so has dhoni. they have to stay but i think india needs to get rid of flat track bullies gambhir and raina and start thinking about building a good core. they have done well recently but they need to start finding replacements for tendulkar' date= dravid and sehwag as well. good depth is more important than immediate results imo.

kick Kirsten out ..lalit modi as indian coach with sharukh khan as batting coach ..preety zinta fiellding coach ..R JADEJA new captain :hysterical:

:giggle: Even though I usually disagree with dandaroy, he's got a point about our 'chalta hai' attitude

:hmmmm:

[Gunner_Mania]

No. Dump Dhoni instead. Go for the 2 captain theory like England - 1 Skipper for ODI & Tests' date=' [b']2nd skipper for T20s (so that we can get rid of Dhoni's singles in this format)

You will get your wish when we play 2 T20s at the end of the Zimboks tour next month.