Lurker Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 huzoor ... try to understand the concept of a debate before getting into these heavy weight debates ... instead of behaving like a silly teenage girl. Its a bloody shame that someone who is soo interested to talk about current affairs just simply wont consider realities. Do you really feel proud about making stupid statements like RSS = Taliban ' date=' BJP = Jihadis ? Doesnt it bother you (I guess not).[/quote'] Doesnt bother me to ruffle feathers of folks like you who beleive Almighty put them on this planet to "stand up and show the mirror". Bhai saab why dont you analyze your behavior in this thread itself, should give you ample answers.
Lurker Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 I dont see such a shift at all. Israel did well to record the incident and release videos showing the hooligan peace activists. That video is all over the internet and has been shown in the news which ameliorates the situation for Israel. Look at the mild response from the US govt. There is no video of Israeli soldiers shooting as Israel probably destroyed all the cameras, so I think mediawise Israel has done well. Bhai saheb what media do you follow???? Israel PM(Netenyahu) himself is trying to do a damage control suggesting, "International Community should not rush to judgement". What does that tell you??? Within this thread you have Israelis suggesting how hundreds of people have lost lives in countries like India and Pakistan while world focussed on Israel. Again what does that tell you? And since you were suggesting India to watch its back what does it say about Israel lumping India and Pakistan together? By the way here is Editorial from New York Times. There can be no excuse for the way that Israel completely mishandled the incident. A commando raid on the lead, Turkish-flagged ship left nine activists dead and has opened Israel to a torrent of criticism. This is a grievous, self-inflicted wound. It has damaged Israel’s ties with Turkey, once its closest ally in the Muslim world; given the Hamas-led government in Gaza a huge propaganda boost; and complicated peace talks with the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. It also has made it much tougher for the Obama administration to persuade the United Nations Security Council to put new sanctions on Iran’s nuclear program — which Israeli officials insist is their top priority. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/opinion/02wed1.html?ref=todayspaper Suggesting that "Israel is gradually turning from an asset to ... a burden" for the U.S. would bring swift and ferocious denunciation on Capitol Hill. But that statement passed with barely a shrug in Jerusalem on Tuesday when it was made before the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee by Meir Dagan, head of Israel's Mossad intelligence agency. The most glaring diplomatic damage to the U.S. and Israel caused by Monday's raid, however, was the widening of the breach with Turkey, the most important ally in the Muslim world to both. http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1993403,00.html Those are top 2 most respected newsmedia in USA, aside from Washington Post maybe. I dont see any media sympathies towards Israel. xxx
seedhi Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 Bhai saheb what media do you follow???? Israel PM(Netenyahu) himself is trying to do a damage control suggesting, "International Community should not rush to judgement". What does that tell you??? Within this thread you have Israelis suggesting how hundreds of people have lost lives in countries like India and Pakistan while world focussed on Israel. Again what does that tell you? And since you were suggesting India to watch its back what does it say about Israel lumping India and Pakistan together? By the way here is Editorial from New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/02/opinion/02wed1.html?ref=todayspaper http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1993403,00.html Those are top 2 most respected newsmedia in USA, aside from Washington Post maybe. I dont see any media sympathies towards Israel. xxxI am saying all this is temporary. The US govt is solidly behind Israel. Please consider that the US govt is not just Obama but the whole administration and Israel has a firm base of support from the Congress up to the White House Chief of Staff. Consider the fact that 18 months ago Israel conducted a month long series of air strikes on Gaza - result: some condemnation but nothing to bother Israel. Consider the fact that Turkey is still buying equipment from Israel. There have been any number of editorials critical of Israel in the past, suggesting the US-Israel relations are tense etc. Nothing happened. Ever. Not even when Israel bombed USS Liberty and killed US soldiers. Yes Israel was wrong to lump India and pakistan together. Still, Indian interests lie with Israel rather than the paki-Turk axis of Talibani ascendancy. My only fear is that under the influence of the leftist loons and the votebank the Indian govt should not destroy our relations with Israel on an issue which is of no concern to us. We should stay neutral. Otherwise, all we will do is to lose a valuable ally as nothing is going to happen to Israel that much I am convinced of.
Lurker Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 I am saying all this is temporary. I dont think that is neccessarily true. In my experience atleast I have not heard Israeli top brass, including its Intelligence Chief, being told that it is becoming a burden instead of an assett. That frankly is a view that I am seeing increasingly in US media, and US is Israel's biggest supporter. European countries have been critical for a long time now. I am not saying its over for Israel-US relationship but certainly Israel is doing nothing to help the situation.
seedhi Posted June 2, 2010 Posted June 2, 2010 I dont think that is neccessarily true. In my experience atleast I have not heard Israeli top brass, including its Intelligence Chief, being told that it is becoming a burden instead of an assett. That frankly is a view that I am seeing increasingly in US media, and US is Israel's biggest supporter. European countries have been critical for a long time now. I am not saying its over for Israel-US relationship but certainly Israel is doing nothing to help the situation.Lets agree to disagree.
Texy Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Finally, the world is seeing what a rougue state Israel is. Its not even a legal state...most of its land is stolen land from Palestine. how many tribes, groups, religions, cultures were lost..wiped out because of your prophet spreading the good word across middle east? MIDDLE EAST entered dark ages as soon as Islam spread... Iran, Egypt, Iraq.... How many lands were taken forcefully and its inhabitants converted to Islam by sword? from Mongolia to Turkey to Malaysia to Indonesia?
King Tendulkar Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 So the Gaza aid charity on the boat had terrorist links!!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Turkish charity at the centre of the raid by Israeli forces on an aid vessel in the Mediterranean was under intense scrutiny last night over its alleged links with militant organisations. Despite their claims to be an entirely peaceful organisation, The Foundation for Human Rights, Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (IHH) has a history of involvement in Islamic extremism around the world and has been linked with an attempted bombing of an airport in the US. The charity had 40 members on the Turkish-owned ship Mavi Marmara when it was boarded by Israeli Navy commandos on Monday. Nine people died in the operation. Israeli security sources said that about 40 people set upon their commandos as they abseiled from a helicopter on to the upper deck of the ship, armed primarily with paintball guns intended for use in crowd control. The troops found themselves facing a crowd armed with metal pipes, knives and stun grenades. The activists tied the rope used by the soldiers to a railing on the ship, in the hope of bringing down the helicopter, officials said — forcing the commander to cut the rope and leave four commandos on the deck below. Security sources said that the assailants used a saw to cut metal bars from the ship’s railings. The IHH, which Israel says has links with the Palestinian group Hamas, first gained attention in the 1990s. Jean-Louis Bruguière, a French investigating magistrate and an authority on counter-terrorism, has said that in the mid-1990s the group’s leader, Bulent Yildirim, made efforts to “recruit veteran soldiers in anticipation of the coming holy war. In particular, some men were sent into war zones in Muslim countries in order to acquire combat experienceâ€. Mr Bruguière testified at the US trial of Ahmed Ressam, dubbed the Millennium Bomber, that the IHH had played an important role in a failed plot to bomb Los Angeles airport. A 2006 report by the Danish Institute for International Studies described the group as a front for funding terrorist organisations and sending Mujahidin to fight in countries such as Afghanistan, Bosnia and Chechnya. The IHH, which is not on US or European terrorist lists, denies accusations of ties to terrorist groups. The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Centre (ITIC) — an Israel-based NGO with close ties to the country’s military — does not dispute the IHH’s legitimate philanthropic activities, but it says it is an overt supporter of Hamas, branded by Israel, the EU and US as a terrorist organisation. The ITIC says it has evidence that the IHH has helped to provide weapons and funds for Islamic terrorist groups in the Middle East. The Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth said that some security officials believed there was a link between the ship, which was purchased for the trip by the IHH, and Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party (AK). The IHH had been unable to charter a ship for the risky voyage, and had resorted to buying the Mavi Marmara for €900,000 (£750,000); money it said it had raised from its members in Turkey. It also bought the 10,000 tonnes of aid intended for Gaza, including electric wheelchairs and pre-fabricated houses. General Richard Myers, former Chairman of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told The Times yesterday that there was substantial evidence of some charitable organisations being exploited by extremist groups for their own ends. “A lot of wealthy benefactors providing donations for humanitarian relief don’t know what they’re funding. They think they’re doing something for welfare and education,†he said. As Israel began deporting hundreds of foreign activists detained when its commandos stormed the Gaza aid flotilla, fresh details emerged yesterday of the group’s preparations for the raid. According to reports in the Israeli press, some of the men who tackled the commandos were equipped with night-vision goggles, gas masks and life vests. Others had ceramic vests to stop bullets, security officials said. About a hundred of the passengers were carrying wads of $10,000 on them — a total of about $1 million; money the authorities say was bound for Hamas, which controls Gaza. Vahdettin Kaygan, a spokesman for IHH, denied accusations that it had links with militant Islamist groups and said that it operated as a charity in 120 countries around the world. It was set up in 1992 to help Bosnian Muslims and had carried out missions in Pakistan, Ethiopia, Lebanon, Indonesia and Iraq, as well as running previous aid ships to Gaza. “We don’t have anything against Israel. Our only aim was to carry aid to the people of Gaza. But for Israel, regardless of your religion or your nationality, if you help the people of Gaza you will be declared a terrorist,†the IHH said in a statement. All 37 British citizens detained by Israeli forces during the raid were released without charge yesterday. Israel said last night that 527 activists had left the country. The Britons, who had been held in a detention centre in Beersheba since their arrest on Monday, were taken to Ben Gurion airport yesterday afternoon and flown to Turkey. Most of them are expected to arrive in London this morning.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b06gRN_tL74]YouTube- Mark Regev interviewed about Gaza Freedom Flotilla by Jon Snow on Channel 4, 1 June 2010[/ame] ------ :hail: :hail: MARK REGEV, OH, ****ING BRILLIANT, :hail: :hail:
Equinox Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 ^Wtf are you talking about? He got pwned. Mark Regev: We guarantee the aid will reach Gaza Presenter: You can't be trusted Regev: Why is that? Presenter: Because you have 70-80% of the aid that has been going into Gaza. The aid is now down to 20% since you strangled the place. And even better Presenter: Turkey has said a Turkish warship will accompany the next flotilla. What are you going to do? Regev: Is that hypothetical? Are you serious? Are you serious? Seems like you have a thing for dickheads like Regev. I feel for losers like you.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 ^Wtf are you talking about? He got pwned. Mark Regev: We guarantee the aid will reach Gaza Presenter: You can't be trusted Regev: Why is that? Presenter: Because you have 70-80% of the aid that has been going into Gaza. The aid is now down to 20% since you strangled the place. And even better Presenter: Turkey has said a Turkish warship will accompany the next flotilla. What are you going to do? Regev: Is that hypothetical? Are you serious? Are you serious? Seems like you have a thing for dickheads like Regev. I feel for losers like you. Is that what you called PWNED ? :hysterical: John Snow was throwing a tantrum while Mark Regev was cool as a cucumber
ViruRulez Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 I respect Israel for their arms deal with India and I also respect a Judaism for producing great genius but I for once cannot take Israel's side in this conflict. At first they had occupied the nation and now they are blocking food and supplies to the nation .. I am all for a peaceful and friendly solution and always think this can be resolved in a peaceful manner ... but though I do not support terrorists like Hamas etc. but I cannot support Israel in any means as they are behaving like inhuman, barbaric and ruthless humans .. and I have been watching unbiased reports from all channels and everybody cannot be long for so long .. Israel needs to behave as a responsible nation soon or the day might come when the world might turn against Israel as a whole .. they have been losing a lot of reputation lately and even the US who was their closest ally is not that sympathetic anymore .. if they try to be too much autocratic I wont be surprised if the whole world attacks them one day .. they might fight one country or two with their superior army but they cannot fight a world force and they will be damned .. I hope they start realizing and start behaving like a responsible nation .. same goes for Hamas and other such Palestinian terrorist groups too Frankly speaking nowadays Israel is behaving more irresponsibly than North Korea and Iran who are depicted as bigger evils .. North Korea or Iran are not doing anything to harm the world but just running their own nation as they wish and I dont see that as inhuman or anything unethical whereas Israel as doing a lot more unethical things
King Tendulkar Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 So if you have a whole group of people hell bent on killing you and destroying your country what are you supposed to do? Shower them with flower petals and allow anyone to enter at will and dissapear at will? GET REAL Israel are just brilliant and controlling the monsters on the doorstep, while others just can't do it the same, even though they want to eg India Israel is a great nation dealing with whole continent wanting its total destruction. As for supporters of the jihadis trying to equate them with loonies like Iran is frankly laughable.
ViruRulez Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 One more think where I think Israel is going over its aukaat was to include India in same bracket as Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq while referring to innocent killings .. they apologized a day later but I wont trust such a country who names one of their biggest weapons and arms buyer along with a rogue country .. Israel is behaving autocratic nowadays and behaving as if they are above the world and that is quite worrying
ViruRulez Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 So if you have a whole group of people hell bent on killing you and destroying your country what are you supposed to do? Shower them with flower petals and allow anyone to enter at will and dissapear at will? GET REAL Israel are just brilliant and controlling the monsters on the doorstep, while others just can't do it the same, even though they want to eg India Israel is a great nation dealing with whole continent wanting its total destruction. As for supporters of the jihadis trying to equate them with loonies like Iran is frankly laughable. Who is killing them .. I will go with normal human logic anyways .. nobody was killing them .. it was a humanitarian flotilla .. and I am not referring to just this instance .. why would you put blockade at the first place .. whoever it is and whatever be the fight but will you deny people to even eat and live .. I am saying about the overall attitude of Israel .. at first that is an occupied land and that is well known .. they were beneficiaries after the holocaust which we all condemn .. I am not supporting any terrorism or any violence from anybody ... not from Israel's side and nor from Palestine's side .. I have always supported peace to every possible extent and will do so in every matter throughout my life .. but it is not possible that the whole world is wrong .. every channel which goes into Israel and by that I mean unbiased channels (I dont count on Aljazeera or known US channels because it will be biased and that is quite evident) reports about attrocities by Israel .. I have seen a lot of videos and reports and the whole world cannot be wrong .. there must be something wrong for sure And done dare to call me any supporter of Jihadi. I have been always against non-violence and will remain so throughout my life. I hate terrorists more than anybody else can do. So, just think before you speak. Read what I said again. I was saying that Israel's behavior right now is more atrocious than North Korea and Iran which are depicted as world threats. What has North Korea or Iran done to harm humanity. They are only suspected to be developing nuclear bombs and most investigations end with the fact that they dont have the technology to create nuclear bombs. For that matter Israel is the only country in the world who does not even say if they have nuclear bombs or not though most investigations suggest that they have in most probability. Rest North Korea or Iran has never done anything inhuman to other nations like Israel do at times. So, I am saying that just from logic and nothing else. I dont support anyone but just make use of your brain and you wont see any different. Just to clarify again, I was not saying just about this attack on this flotilla only. I was saying about blockade and not giving food and such other inhuman acts. I am one of those who believes that everybody should live in universal brotherhood and I have been saying this since ages.
yoda Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 So if you have a whole group of people hell bent on killing you and destroying your country what are you supposed to do? Shower them with flower petals and allow anyone to enter at will and dissapear at will? You think the solution is for them to keep killing each other?
someone Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 You think the solution is for them to keep killing each other? Have you heard of self-defense
yoda Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 Have you heard of self-defense Yes. Now have you heard of proportionate response and concern for human life?
Sooda Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 I have been always against non-violence and will remain so throughout my life. JIHADI SUPPORTER :mad: :cantstop:
achilles Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 And they've started again. Israel needs to stop being a bully, for humanity's sake. ^Wtf are you talking about? He got pwned. Mark Regev: We guarantee the aid will reach Gaza Presenter: You can't be trusted Regev: Why is that? Presenter: Because you have 70-80% of the aid that has been going into Gaza. The aid is now down to 20% since you strangled the place. And even better Presenter: Turkey has said a Turkish warship will accompany the next flotilla. What are you going to do? Regev: Is that hypothetical? Are you serious? Are you serious? Seems like you have a thing for dickheads like Regev. I feel for losers like you. Except for the last part, that was EPIC. Thanks for taking the effort to type it all down :hysterical:
Recommended Posts