Jadeja needs to contribute more with bat: Dhoni

[Lord]

So has Jadeja' date=' he has played well in ODIs over the year. So then why are people so bitter?[/quote'] only with the ball,not with bat.nobody has problems with him a bowler ho can bat,but he cant bat at 7.he just doesnt belong there

IP had an opportunity in IPL, he missed that chance to get into the indian frame and now it is up to him to perform. The point is I fail to understand still how do people think IP automatically deserves a place.

IPL isnt be all n end all.i would rather look at domestic perforemance.we saw how Murali Vijay,picked on IPL performances,failed

[someone]

only with the ball,not with bat.nobody has problems with him a bowler ho can bat,but he cant bat at 7.he just doesnt belong there IPL isnt be all n end all.i would rather look at domestic perforemance.we saw how Murali Vijay,picked on IPL performances,failed

I am sorry but you contradict yourself at your last point. Vijay was our first perference regularly backup opener over the last 1-2 year. Please check the stats if you do not believe. So there must be a reason for that, which is his domestic performance which has been brilliant which is why he was given chances before IPL and took them well. And in IPL, he played well so logically good domestic performances + bonus from IPL made up the best option if any of our openers got injured in which case Sehwag got. Your first point, thank you you said he contributes with the bowl as there are still many bitter supporters who cannot look beyond t20 to describe his performances. And we are playing 6 batsman + 5 bowlers and Jadeja is the best batsman among the 5 bowlers so it automatically gives up no.7. If you want to drop Jadeja then first our part time bowlers must bowl well regularly which any true indian fan would know has been our biggest weakness( 5th bowling spot). So even when Jadeja has potentially solved the problem, I still see people bitter. And also Jadeja needs to be given time and patience, just like Pathan if you want to judge his batting. IP was given a chance to bat up the order, did decent and so I would also want to see that with Jadeja as it will give confidence to Jadeja just like what happened with IP when he was moved up. Also, it is not like at no.7, he is the worse player ever, even the likes of Sehwag and Tendulkar would struggle to score against Malinga.

[Lord]

I am sorry but you contradict yourself at your last point. Vijay was our first perference regularly backup opener over the last 1-2 year. Please check the stats if you do not believe. So there must be a reason for that, which is his domestic performance which has been brilliant which is why he was given chances before IPL and took them well. And in IPL, he played well so logically good domestic performances + bonus from IPL made up the best option if any of our openers got injured in which case Sehwag got. Your first point, thank you you said he contributes with the bowl as there are still many bitter supporters who cannot look beyond t20 to describe his performances. And we are playing 6 batsman + 5 bowlers and Jadeja is the best batsman among the 5 bowlers so it automatically gives up no.7. If you want to drop Jadeja then first our part time bowlers must bowl well regularly which any true indian fan would know has been our biggest weakness( 5th bowling spot). So even when Jadeja has potentially solved the problem, I still see people bitter. And also Jadeja needs to be given time and patience, just like Pathan if you want to judge his batting. IP was given a chance to bat up the order, did decent and so I would also want to see that with Jadeja as it will give confidence to Jadeja just like what happened with IP when he was moved up. Also, it is not like at no.7, he is the worse player ever, even the likes of Sehwag and Tendulkar would struggle to score against Malinga.

i am talking about ODIs wrt Vijay.i know he did well in dom. cricket n is still our backup opener.but he was earlier seen as a test specialist,but was suddenly included in T20 team on back of IPL,above Uthappa,Pandey,Dhawan etc as for Jadeja,i dont see him improving much till 2011 WC,i am willing to see him in the team as a bowler who can bat,but he cant bat at 7 in our WC team.he just can attack n score quickly which u need at 7

[asterix]

I don't think Jadeja supporters including Niranjan Shah are concerned about World Cup 2011. So it's a waste of time really to put your point through.. Everybody is talking about giving the Bhikhari some time..BUT THERE ISN'T ANY FECKING TIME TILL WC2011..Bhikhari can take his own time after screwing up another ICC event..

[someone]

i am talking about ODIs wrt Vijay.i know he did well in dom. cricket n is still our backup opener.but he was earlier seen as a test specialist,but was suddenly included in T20 team on back of IPL,above Uthappa,Pandey,Dhawan etc as for Jadeja,i dont see him improving much till 2011 WC,i am willing to see him in the team as a bowler who can bat,but he cant bat at 7 in our WC team.he just can attack n score quickly which u need at 7

I am afraid but I will again have to argue despite not wanting to fight about it. Vijay has proved he has done well in domestics both in ODIs and Tests. So he rightfully deserves a chance to be our next best choice for opener after our first choice openers. And he did well in IPL but I do not understand how you are mentioning that Uthappa, Pandey, Dhawan should have been selected when their case would also have been based on good IPL performances like Vijay.But the difference was Vijay had performed well for India and good record in ODIs plus experience so he got the vacant opener spot ahead of those names. If it did not work, it is wrong to say it that the decision was wrong as at the time , he was the best option and your working against Vijay is pure hindsight. Nothing more. And you seem to have a crystal ball as you have already made up your mind that Jadeja will not improve. All I think is Jadeja deserves as much chances as IP got for his batting and if we are to compare as RJ domestic record , it suggests he has definately potential both in batting and bowling. He has already done good in bowling( better than IP) , so now It is just the matter if the selectors are brave enough to give him the opportunity to bat higher like IP opportunities in the past.

[Lord]

I am afraid but I will again have to argue despite not wanting to fight about it. Vijay has proved he has done well in domestics both in ODIs and Tests. So he rightfully deserves a chance to be our next best choice for opener after our first choice openers. And he did well in IPL but I do not understand how you are mentioning that Uthappa, Pandey, Dhawan should have been selected when their case would also have been based on good IPL performances like Vijay.But the difference was Vijay had performed well for India and good record in ODIs plus experience so he got the vacant opener spot ahead of those names. If it did not work, it is wrong to say it that the decision was wrong as at the time , he was the best option and your working against Vijay is pure hindsight. Nothing more.

u r misunderstanding me,i'm not criticising his selection.but would he hv been selected if he failed in IPL? I dont think so although he deserved to be selected.thats what i'm saying the selectors should give more weightage to dom. cricket than IPL.

And you seem to have a crystal ball as you have already made up your mind that Jadeja will not improve. All I think is Jadeja deserves as much chances as IP got for his batting and if we are to compare as RJ domestic record , it suggests he has definately potential both in batting and bowling. He has already done good in bowling( better than IP) , so now It is just the matter if the selectors are brave enough to give him the opportunity to bat higher like IP opportunities in the past.

well if u want us to give opportunities to Jadeja just becuse Irfan got them,i must tell u that Irfan started his career at 8 n stayed there for quite a while.its only after he showed promise n showed considerable abilty to hit that he was promoted at 7.so why is Jadeja batting at 7 if u wanna draw parellels n btw,i did not say Jadeja cant improve.i said he cant improve in time for 2011 WC.its only 10 months to go

[asterix]

Lord, Performance in IPL was not the important selection criteria. Jadeja is above all these factors now. He is Niranjan Shah's candidate. In very serious circumstance only he will not be selected, otherwise he will remain not only a permanent member of the team, he will remain a permanent member of the playing XI (irrespective of his performances) for many years to come. Nobody can touch him (unless he is confronted in any Beer Bar by angry fans) as long as he's got the backing of Niranjan Shah. The tussle between Lalit Modi and Niranjan Shah was also one of the reason, Jadeja was not allowed to play in the IPL (by Modi, most probably). If Modi had his ways, Jadeja wouldn't be allowed near the Indian team in near future.

[someone]

Lord, Performance in IPL was not the important selection criteria. Jadeja is above all these factors now. He is Niranjan Shah's candidate. In very serious circumstance only he will not be selected, otherwise he will remain not only a permanent member of the team, he will remain a permanent member of the playing XI (irrespective of his performances) for many years to come. Nobody can touch him (unless he is confronted in any Beer Bar by angry fans) as long as he's got the backing of Niranjan Shah. The tussle between Lalit Modi and Niranjan Shah was also one of the reason, Jadeja was not allowed to play in the IPL (by Modi, most probably). If Modi had his ways, Jadeja wouldn't be allowed near the Indian team in near future.

Please read my above posts. And stop being bitter. Ignoring his good performances still and making baseless comments.

[saneindian]

Lord, Performance in IPL was not the important selection criteria. Jadeja is above all these factors now. He is Niranjan Shah's candidate. In very serious circumstance only he will not be selected, otherwise he will remain not only a permanent member of the team, he will remain a permanent member of the playing XI (irrespective of his performances) for many years to come. Nobody can touch him (unless he is confronted in any Beer Bar by angry fans) as long as he's got the backing of Niranjan Shah. The tussle between Lalit Modi and Niranjan Shah was also one of the reason, Jadeja was not allowed to play in the IPL (by Modi, most probably). If Modi had his ways, Jadeja wouldn't be allowed near the Indian team in near future.

We won the Asia Cup, be cheerful dude. To much of a negative mindset isn't very good for health.:sherlock:

[asterix]

SaneIndian..I'm quite cheerful mate..Infact if you read my recent posts I'm asking other member to not worry about Jadeja being in the team. He is backed by a very powerful BCCI official, so he is not going anwhere. I used to blame Dhoni, Shrikkanth and Gary for Jadeja's continuous selection. But I'm no more blamining them now. It's not their fault.. Yes, we won Asia cup. Really enjoyed the moment. But that doesn't make me forget our awful record in recent ICC events and how we will perform in the upcoming WC. The upcoming WC will be the swansong of many of our stars like Sachin, Viru, UV and even Dhoni etc. And here we have a corrupt BCCI official shamelessly promoting a useless player who has made a carreer in losing it for India, batting in the lower order. This WC will be the last WC of Sachin. He so much wishes to win the WC. He has achieved so many landmarks but this landmark has been elusive to him. And we are being told by Jadeja fans to cheer up, don't be negative, give time to Jadeja etc etc.. My issues in not with Jadeja anymore. He is a pathetic limited ability player and we shouldn't expect much from him... My avatar might look grumpy. That doesn't means I'm grumpy..

[saneindian]

SaneIndian..I'm quite cheerful mate..Infact if you read my recent posts I'm asking other member to not worry about Jadeja being in the team. He is backed by a very powerful BCCI official, so he is not going anwhere. I used to blame Dhoni, Shrikkanth and Gary for Jadeja's continuous selection. But I'm no more blamining them now. It's not their fault.. Yes, we won Asia cup. Really enjoyed the moment. But that doesn't make me forget our awful record in recent ICC events and how we will perform in the upcoming WC. The upcoming WC will be the swansong of many of our stars like Sachin, Viru, UV and even Dhoni etc. And here we have a corrupt BCCI official shamelessly promoting a useless player who has a carreer in losing it for India batting in the lower order. This WC will be the last WC of Sachin. He so much wishes to win the WC. He has achieved so many landmarks but this landmark has been elusive to him. And we are being told by Jadeja fans to cheer up, don't be negative, give time to Jadeja etc etc.. My issues in not with Jadeja anymore. He is a pathetic limited ability player and we shouldn't expect much from him...

Aah there we go again. In ICC events we aren't doing well because we arent clicking as a team. Batsmen have a problem against the short balls and have looked completely out of depth, bowlers can't quite look in rhythm and on the field we show no energy. If you think removing Jadeja from the team is the cure to all these problems, then shouldn't we have been winning every other tournament in the pre-Jadeja days. If we are to win the WC 2011, the big names will have to come good, Sachin has done that in almost all WCs bar the last one, the likes of Sehwag, Yuvraj, Gambhir, Dhoni, Bhajji, Zaheer , Nehra, guys who have played 100+ ODis will be the ones who will win us the cup. How fair do you think it is to say that a 21 year old will decide our fate in the next WC. Thats demeaning for the likes of Sachin, Viru, Gauti, Yuvi, Dhoni, Raina, Nehra, Zak and Bhajji.

[asterix]

It's not the palyer but the batting position he comes is very crucial. Lot's of goodwork done in the top order in the innings can be wasted if players coming in crucial batting position like 6,7,8 blow away. Take the example of England's recent 2 wins over Australia. Check how players like Bresnan, Wright, etc. are helping in winning the matches. That doesn't means that KP, Strauss, Collingwood etc. failed. They did their bit. being a top player doesn't means that you'll always carry the load of the team and win the matches for the team. Indian team takes Batting PP at a time when player like Jadeja etc. are batting. Finishing an ODI innings is very important. More often players coming in the lower order propel the score beyond the oppositions reach. Don't they say that we lost because we didn't utilised the 'Batting PP'. The other team scored more than us in their Batting PP. I thought it was clear to you as a cricket follower..So there.. I hope you understand, what I'm trying to say..

[Thommo]

Irfan allows u to play 2 attacking spinners n thats wat we need as spin is our strength n they must get wickets. yes Irfan is a bad bowler but its ot like other pacers r ripping apart the opposition.they get tonked as well.so why not strengthen our batting.our bowling wont deteriorate that much

Yeah buddy, you can say that again. Irfan is a good first change bowler, unless the conditions are not too loaded in the batsmans favour..I was trying to recollect the few occassions where he has got the stick from his critics and those were the ones, where the team ws defending some low scores and after a good spell from the opening bowlers he wud let the batsman off the hook by some insipid bowling...But im not sure if his crimes are so unforgivable, especially, since his inclusion will lend a much needed balance to the side..Praveen Kumar is much lesser a batsman nd even bowls at almost the same pace as irfan(so pace is not the criteria here at all) I remember one of the CSK games and Dhoni ws standing up for Balaji..lo and behold, Balaji bowls a bouncer of all the deliveries conceding the 4 byes (the look on dhonis face was priceless) and balaji was promptly dropped for the subsequent games...i wonder if Irfan has committed some of these blunders in crickeing terms This brings us to Ravindra Jadeja..Bowling is good, keeps it tight, but allrounder? Not sure of that and an absolute ill fit at #7...Batting is suspect against quality bowlers, especially when it comes to PP and slog overs WC is too near to actually develop jadeja into a batting wonder, hence my vote will always go to Irfan

[Lord]

Jadeja hs shown that he can bat.hes just not fit for no.7 spot.as he can slog from word go n take pressure while chasing. i was thinking that since Jadeja isnt going anywhere n selectors have vowed not to pick Irfan,why not promote Jadeja at 4.5 to bat in middle overs.sure it'll mean Raina to be at 7,which admittedly is too low for a specialist bat like him.but hes far more capable of handling the pressure n taking advantage of batting PP which Jadeja clealy cant do

[vipin]

Jadeja hs shown that he can bat.hes just not fit for no.7 spot.as he can slog from word go n take pressure while chasing. i was thinking that since Jadeja isnt going anywhere n selectors have vowed not to pick Irfan,why not promote Jadeja at 4.5 to bat in middle overs.sure it'll mean Raina to be at 7,which admittedly is too low for a specialist bat like him.but hes far more capable of handling the pressure n taking advantage of batting PP which Jadeja clealy cant do

Pace bowling is the most critical department for Team India and a little laxity in the department can easily lead to the opposition getting 20 - 25 extra runs. For that reason , Irfan really needs to displace one of the three pacers ; Nehra/Zaheer/Praveen to be in the team and not Jadeja. As far as Jadeja is concerned , with a batting Av of 36 (SR:80) and a bowling economy of below 4.8 while bowling an average of 8 - 9 overs per match across his career until now certainly isn't bad as an all - rounder. However the main point of concern is his inability to fulfill the role of a no. 7 batsman. If a batsman like Virat Kohli or Gautam Gambhir or Rahul Dravid or even Dhoni himself is shoved down to the no. 7 spot they will probably fail as much with the bat as Jadeja is failing. Jadeja might develop the strength and timing to play the big shots and adapt himself to the No. 7 spot across 2 - 3 years but certainly not by the world cup. The solution might be to promote jadeja in the batting order which again isnt a very viable one because the superior batsmen always need to be allowed to play more deliveries. The only other solution is to hope that Irfan or Yusuf manage to improve their skills enough in time for the world cup.

[achilles]

No.7 is the position for a slogger (now please don't quote one random game where a team lost 5 early wickets and No.7 had to rebuild). Can Ravi slog? Can Ravi handle pressure? Can he avoid a run-out at a crucial juncture? Can he bat for his life? Some interesting questions to which Ravi will have to confront himself, enroute to the the World Cup. As a contingency plan, India can maybe develop Yuvraj and Viru into all-rounders, opening up the slot of No.7 for Irfan or Yusuf or Robin Uthappa.

[imran666]

what the hell is wrong with dhoni ..he seems to fall in love with jadeja ...reminds me of love bewtreen m.yousif and inzmam ...i think jadeja has secretly taken pics of dhoni doing someting alone in the toilet and is now is black mailing him loool

[saneindian]

No.7 is the position for a slogger (now please don't quote one random game where a team lost 5 early wickets and No.7 had to rebuild). Can Ravi slog? Can Ravi handle pressure? Can he avoid a run-out at a crucial juncture? Can he bat for his life? Some interesting questions to which Ravi will have to confront himself, enroute to the the World Cup. As a contingency plan, India can maybe develop Yuvraj and Viru into all-rounders, opening up the slot of No.7 for Irfan or Yusuf or Robin Uthappa.

If No 7 was for a slogger, Yusuf Pathan would have made it his own position by now. A no 7 shouldn't just be slogger but should be 1. Able to rebuild a innings in case of early wickets 2. Able to complete his quota of 10 overs in most matches where he bowls 3. Should picks up 1-2 wickets every match and a few 3-4 wicket hauls in between 4. Should be a good fielder 5. Should have the ability to score quick runs down the order (an ability to hit 6s is an added bonus). Compare all the options available right now(Jadeja, Irfan ,Yusuf, Uthappa, Nayar, Ganpathy, Chawla etc) on these 5 parameters and the only guys who will do well on 4 of these 5 will be Irfan and Jadeja. But given how badly his bowling has gone down, can we really see Irfan complete 7-8 overs every match (especially when we are playing in the sub continent). When we are playing in SA, Aus, NZ, Eng etc, Irfan should play ahead of Jadeja, but in the sub continent, at the moment Jadeja is doing a good enough job. As for the part timers doing the job for us, relying on the part timers could be more risky in the WC than playing Jadeja. Lets look at the no 7s of the other teams Australia: James Hopes England: Luke Wright South Africa: Albie Morkel NZ: Vettori WI: Sammy Pakistan: Abdul Razzaq Sri Lanka: Kapugedera Now each of them has taken some time in settling in int'l cricket. Their teams were patient with them and then only did they started performing consistently. Jadeja in ODIs hasn't been too bad, playing him in t20s was a mistake and its probably the failures in those t20s which has made him the most hated cricketer in India right now. Having said that to blame him for all our failures isn't quite correct either.

[Lord]

If No 7 was for a slogger, Yusuf Pathan would have made it his own position by now. A no 7 shouldn't just be slogger but should be 1. Able to rebuild a innings in case of early wickets 2. Able to complete his quota of 10 overs in most matches where he bowls 3. Should picks up 1-2 wickets every match and a few 3-4 wicket hauls in between 4. Should be a good fielder 5. Should have the ability to score quick runs down the order (an ability to hit 6s is an added bonus). Compare all the options available right now(Jadeja, Irfan ,Yusuf, Uthappa, Nayar, Ganpathy, Chawla etc) on these 5 parameters and the only guys who will do well on 4 of these 5 will be Irfan and Jadeja. But given how badly his bowling has gone down, can we really see Irfan complete 7-8 overs every match (especially when we are playing in the sub continent). When we are playing in SA, Aus, NZ, Eng etc, Irfan should play ahead of Jadeja, but in the sub continent, at the moment Jadeja is doing a good enough job.

both do well on 4 parameters.but being a solid no.7 is far more important than being a good 5th bowler.most games r decided by no.7 when a team is chasing.

As for the part timers doing the job for us, relying on the part timers could be more risky in the WC than playing Jadeja.

dont think so,with a bit of practice,they can do well on subcontinent wickets.Yuvraj esp. can do well.they can share the 5 th bowler overs with Irfan

Lets look at the no 7s of the other teams Australia: James Hopes England: Luke Wright South Africa: Albie Morkel NZ: Vettori WI: Sammy Pakistan: Abdul Razzaq Sri Lanka: Kapugedera Now each of them has taken some time in settling in int'l cricket. Their teams were patient with them and then only did they started performing consistently.

all of them can score quickly n hit sixes n make use of batting PP.can Jadeja do that?NO.

Jadeja in ODIs hasn't been too bad, playing him in t20s was a mistake and its probably the failures in those t20s which has made him the most hated cricketer in India right now. Having said that to blame him for all our failures isn't quite correct either.

hes not a bad bowler,but hes not a no.7.

[someone]

both do well on 4 parameters.but being a solid no.7 is far more important than being a good 5th bowler.most games r decided by no.7 when a team is chasing.. I do not think this is agreeable. Yes, it can be true some days but again games are usually lost when your 5th bowler bowls bad which changes the whole game. So, at the end, I think it is better to have 5 bowlers who can bowl well and there are already 6 batsman so if the whole team perform to their role, it should be a comfortable win dont think so,with a bit of practice,they can do well on subcontinent wickets.Yuvraj esp. can do well.they can share the 5 th bowler overs with Irfan. See above point, and the stats and performances of our those part time bowlers are not very impressive. Just try to remember, it was only a few years ago, where our biggest problem was the part time bowler which made us lose many matches, so when Jadeja solves it, people start to neglect that problem. all of them can score quickly n hit sixes n make use of batting PP.can Jadeja do that?NO. Jadeja can do strike a ball, he has done decent in IPL and it clearly shows he need time to settle. And you are just saying like the likes of IP, YP can just the best players for no.7. Both have their limitations in batting and they have also struggled in the no.7 slot when they were given a chance. hes not a bad bowler,but hes not a no.7. Probably it just tells what saneindian was telling, when u already have great finishers like raina, dhoni who all loves to bat at the end. Maybe lets try to send Jadeja up the order, after all he is good at running and can rotate strike during the middle order. More important, it is about opportunities. Just like how IP got a chance to bat up the order, it showed us he can bat, so why not try that with Jadeja as it is really about confidence as Jadeja domestic performances clearly show he can bat and bowl. So there is definately potential but now it is up to our indian management to make sure Jadeja is given chances.