Times article on Indians in Edison, NJ - racist?

[seedhi]

if the article is not about other minorities' date=' it is a testament to how much of a better sense of humor we indians possess. if there is such a minority that one might not satirize, then that is nothing to be proud of as it merely demonstrates their lack of patience and tolerance. [/quote']Actually, I think the reason is something else and is infact mentioned in the article itself - the perception that Indians have not "integrated enough" into American society and a the resultant phobia due to this perception. I dont know how valid this perception is and even if it is, the thin veneer of satire in the article is transparent enough at least for me to see that it is based on xenophobia.

we take the mickey out of islam because at one hand it claims to be a very peaceful and tolerant religion, while at the same time holding placards calling for beheadings and such... i think i can venture as far as saying that most run of the mill hindus and indians in particular are not that wound up.

No one, least of all me, is suggesting that we should lose our heads over this and follow the Islamic route downhill. But that doest mean one cant evaluate this article as xenophobic or racist if one feels so, and maybe write to the editor about it and so on.

[maggot_brain]

this is shoddy writing and ill conceived humor.If you really think its funny then you must have a great sense of humor' date='i bet you laugh at all of Rush limbaugh's jokes.also please enlighten me on the "history of Jews".I would have thought a Jewish person would foreseen how this "humor" piece would offend most people of Indian descent in America.I can take a good joke but this is not it.[/quote'] Your claim about the Jews not integrating themselves into society and living in ghettoes shows absolutely no understanding of Jewish history whatsoever. It echoes comments said about various communities in various parts of the world and is a 'stereotype for any and all minorities'. The Jews were generally in Mediaeval Europe barred from certain professions, well the best ones anyway that were reserved for Christians. As Christians at that time were not inclined to go into money lending as they believed charging interest was immoral, a proliferation of Jewish moneylenders was therefore a foregone conclusion. Jews for example in the Russian Empire were only allowed to live in what was called that 'Pale of Settlement'. If the Jews lived in 'ghettoes' or only had certain professions, it certainly was not a situation of their own making. On not-integrating, historians generally agree that prior to the Nazi era in Germany, German Jews were almost totally assimilated into the mainstream German population. Take a time machine to early 20th Century Germany and ask a Jew how he or she self-identifies, the answer you are most likely to get is 'I'm a German'. Regardless of the above, the Jews are not and have never been a homogeneous grouping. It follows that their history in various countries differs greatly. The Jews were tolerated in Islamic Spain but driven out at the time of reconquista. They either fled, mainly to the Ottoman Empire, converted to Christianity or practiced Judaism in secret. The Jews in India by contrast have never faced anti-semitism from the native Indians, although they were persecuted by the Portuguese in their Indian colonies. The term 'ghetto' when applied to Jews usually refers to ghettoes set up by the Nazis when they occupied Poland during the Second World War. The two most prominent ghettoes were in Warsaw and Lodz. Conditions in these ghettoes absolutely dire as they were herded into a confined area that would only normally house a fraction of the people sent there and denied access to basic facilities. Again these ghettoes were not created by the Jews themselves. As for the original article that this thread is about, it is so obviously a piece of satire that if you can't see that I can only assume one of the following: 1. Your knowledge of the English language is insufficient to enable an understanding of satire. 2. Your intellectual capability is insufficient for you to be able to understand satire. 3. You are looking anywhere you can for alleged victimisation of India and Indians. If you have to explain humour, of which satire is a form, then either one of the conditions above apply or the piece is poorly written. Do you seriously think any publication outside of an Aryan Nations pamphlet would use the term 'dothead' in a non-satirical context? Obviously the term dothead is pejorative but if they were really racist surely 'paki', 'black bastard', 'raghead' 'sand ******' etc would have been more apt. That is if the author is racist, which I do not believe to be the case. The fact of the matter is I'm really worried about the mentality of some Indians these days. There's so much crap banded about concerning patriotism or love of India that blinkers us to the issues that face our society. Just look at reports of how Hitler is admired by young Indians for, you guessed it, patriotism and love of one's own country. Satire is a legitimate form of social commentary and your playing of the race card only shows just how tentative freedom of speech is around the world today. We don't want to foster a culture where people are scared to criticise anything for fear of backlash. The words, Denmark and cartoons spring to mind.

[cowboysfan]

Your claim about the Jews not integrating themselves into society and living in ghettoes shows absolutely no understanding of Jewish history whatsoever. It echoes comments said about various communities in various parts of the world and is a 'stereotype for any and all minorities'. The Jews were generally in Mediaeval Europe barred from certain professions, well the best ones anyway that were reserved for Christians. As Christians at that time were not inclined to go into money lending as they believed charging interest was immoral, a proliferation of Jewish moneylenders was therefore a foregone conclusion. Jews for example in the Russian Empire were only allowed to live in what was called that 'Pale of Settlement'. If the Jews lived in 'ghettoes' or only had certain professions, it certainly was not a situation of their own making. On not-integrating, historians generally agree that prior to the Nazi era in Germany, German Jews were almost totally assimilated into the mainstream German population. Take a time machine to early 20th Century Germany and ask a Jew how he or she self-identifies, the answer you are most likely to get is 'I'm a German'. Regardless of the above, the Jews are not and have never been a homogeneous grouping. It follows that their history in various countries differs greatly. The Jews were tolerated in Islamic Spain but driven out at the time of reconquista. They either fled, mainly to the Ottoman Empire, converted to Christianity or practiced Judaism in secret. The Jews in India by contrast have never faced anti-semitism from the native Indians, although they were persecuted by the Portuguese in their Indian colonies. The term 'ghetto' when applied to Jews usually refers to ghettoes set up by the Nazis when they occupied Poland during the Second World War. The two most prominent ghettoes were in Warsaw and Lodz. Conditions in these ghettoes absolutely dire as they were herded into a confined area that would only normally house a fraction of the people sent there and denied access to basic facilities. Again these ghettoes were not created by the Jews themselves. As for the original article that this thread is about, it is so obviously a piece of satire that if you can't see that I can only assume one of the following: 1. Your knowledge of the English language is insufficient to enable an understanding of satire. 2. Your intellectual capability is insufficient for you to be able to understand satire. 3. You are looking anywhere you can for alleged victimisation of India and Indians. If you have to explain humour, of which satire is a form, then either one of the conditions above apply or the piece is poorly written. Do you seriously think any publication outside of an Aryan Nations pamphlet would use the term 'dothead' in a non-satirical context? Obviously the term dothead is pejorative but if they were really racist surely 'paki', 'black bastard', 'raghead' 'sand ******' etc would have been more apt. That is if the author is racist, which I do not believe to be the case. The fact of the matter is I'm really worried about the mentality of some Indians these days. There's so much crap banded about concerning patriotism or love of India that blinkers us to the issues that face our society. Just look at reports of how Hitler is admired by young Indians for, you guessed it, patriotism and love of one's own country. Satire is a legitimate form of social commentary and your playing of the race card only shows just how tentative freedom of speech is around the world today. We don't want to foster a culture where people are scared to criticise anything for fear of backlash. The words, Denmark and cartoons spring to mind.

let me post Mr Stein's callous remark on his facebook page after a lot of Indians took offense to his article.-“Didn't meant to insult Indians with my column this week. Also stupidly assumed their emails would follow that Gandhi non-violence thing.†this should end any debate about competence as a satirist or him insensitivity towards others.let me go on though. "Then, in the 1980s, the doctors and engineers brought over their merchant cousins, and we were no longer so sure about the genius thing. In the 1990s, the not-as-brilliant merchants brought their even-less-bright cousins, and we started to understand why India is so damn poor." how is this funny?.I have read this several times but i really fail to see the humor in it.Is there a special rule that only the brilliant people of India can Immigrate to the US?.If that's the case then not a single paki would have been allowed into the states. oops,i am sorry is this being insensitive to Pakistanis?....my bad,i was just joking,that statement was in jest.see what i did there??. I could care less if a person called me a "dothead"(for the record nobody has called me that in 6 years in the US).An overwhelming majority of people i have met are far from being racist(the same cannot be said of a lot of Indians here who look down upon African americans and Latinos ).Its also Funny that a Jewish american will lament on certain Ethnic groups congregating in some East coast town when almost half of the jews in aerica still live in and around New york.I am done debating this,to me a closet Racist has been "outed" and i dont really care to debate about it anymore.

[Karan114]

btw...I think the article wasn't that bad...we need to learn to laugh at ourselves a bit..

The article was moderately amusing but I agree with those saying that Time wouldn't dare publish anything of that sort about other ethnic groups. But what really gets to me is his comment on Twitter ("Didn't meant to insult Indians with my column this week. Also stupidly assumed their emails would follow that Gandhi non-violence thing"), what a moron.

[Lurker]

http://www.techquark.com/2010/01/young-indian-innovators-in-technology.html Stop it with the back office stuff already! There are plenty of people who are willing to innovate. India was slow to adopt credit cards because our banking industry took time to make a leap into the 21st century.

And thats always good to know. Nothing wrong with being criticial about back office. Even China can be criticized for being world's factory without being innovative. Criticism should not be mixed with being negative and all that.

[gs]

About the article, Joel Stein failed miserably in his attempt at satire and giving him the benefit of doubt, inadvertently perhaps, comes across as a xenophobe.

[Lurker]

The article was moderately amusing but I agree with those saying that Time wouldn't dare publish anything of that sort about other ethnic groups. But what really gets to me is his comment on Twitter ("Didn't meant to insult Indians with my column this week. Also stupidly assumed their emails would follow that Gandhi non-violence thing")' date= what a moron.

By ethnic groups I assume you mean Eastern religious groups. Time, and other media, routinely make fun of other religions, jews for example. And what is this defensiveness mindset we have anyway??? If the same joke(s) were made by Russell Peters we would probably be laughing our rear end off. Maybe as a race/nation we need to laugh at ourselves sometime???

[flamy]

By the by not a very humorous article there. Maybe as a race/group we are not so easy to make a fun of. The best humor are often related to sex, drug(booze) & rock and roll and guess we truly suck on all fronts there :giggle::giggle:

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:

[Texy]

The prestigious Time magazine has apologised to Indian-Americans following the publication of a column by journalist Joel Stein which offended and outraged the large community, especially those in New Jersey. "We sincerely regret that any of our readers were upset by Joel Stein's recent humour column 'My Own Private India.' It was in no way intended to cause offence," the Time magazine said after large number of Indian-Americans demanded an apology from the magazine and the columnist. "I truly feel stomach-sick that I hurt so many people," responded Stein, who in his column 'My Own Private India' gave his own impression of how his home town of Edison in New Jersey has changed over the years with the desi influx. I always thought it was hilarious when I'd get the crap kicked out of me by kids like Stein who would yell 'go back to India, dothead!' I was always ROTFLMAO when people would assume that I wasn't American. He really captured the brilliant humour in that one too!" wrote Kal Penn, the popular Indian-American actor.

[Clarke]

Regretting that his article hurt the feelings of so many Indian Americans, Stein wrote: "I was trying to explain how, as someone who believes that immigration has enriched American life and my hometown in particular, I was shocked that I could feel a tiny bit uncomfortable with my changing town when I went to visit it. If we could understand that reaction, we'd be better equipped to debate people on the other side of the immigration issue."

Good thing he's talking the real thing now, and its not racist to discuss that i.e. change.

[flamy]

I always thought it was hilarious when I'd get the crap kicked out of me by kids like Stein who would yell 'go back to India, dothead!' I was always ROTFLMAO when people would assume that I wasn't American. He really captured the brilliant humour in that one too!" wrote Kal Penn, the popular Indian-American actor.

who let kumar out of burger king?