Composition of our bowling attack for WC - Seamers Vs Spinners

[The Outsider]

Half a dozen better spinners than Jadeja in ODIs? I’d love to hear the names. I do feel he’s an extremely under-rated ODI spinner and his numbers speak for themselves.

Ojha, Mishra, Powar, Kartik, Chawla are all better spinners, maybe even Ashwin. The guy can't buy a wicket if his life depended on it and his sh!tty average is proof of that. No matter how good is might be in a containing mode, but if he is playing as a specialist spinner he is expected to take wickets like any other specialist bowler. An average touching 45 is disgraceful for a specialist bowler.

Even though the captain himself has EXPLICITLY stated on more than one occasion that Jadeja is now playing more a specialist spinner, its quite obvious that he’s in the team over guys like Ojha/Mishra primarily for his fielding and the hope that someday, his much anticipated batting finally does come around.

There is no 'more' or 'less' as a specialist spinner. Either he is or he is not. And based on what you have written above, he clearly is not playing as a specialist spinner, but as a utility cricketer in the hope that his batting will start clicking and the team will get the elusive all rounder it is searching for.

[Ram]

Ojha' date=' Mishra, Powar, Kartik, Chawla are all better spinners, maybe even Ashwin. The guy can't buy a wicket if his life depended on it and his sh!tty average is proof of that. No matter how good is might be in a containing mode, but if he is playing as a specialist spinner he is expected to take wickets like any other specialist bowler. An average touching 45 is disgraceful for a specialist bowler. [/quote'] Depends on what your expectations are, from your second spinner. I think its more to keep things under control, than to run through batting line-ups. And Jadeja has been VERY good at that and he has the numbers to prove that, even as all our other bowlers have seen their numbers suffer a cliff-drop. Coming to the other names, Mishra hasn’t exactly been a raging success at the ODI level, Ashwin is entirely untested at this level and there are valid concerns over the overall ‘selectability’ of Ramesh Powar. As far as Chawla goes, he did have a good start to his ODI career, but his bowling digressed rather dramatically, which probably explained he has not played a single ODI in the last 2 years! So to make a claim that there are HALF a dozen spin bowlers in the country who are better ODI bowlers than Jadeja is rather bold and lacking in evidence

There is no 'more' or 'less' as a specialist spinner. Either he is or he is not. And based on what you have written above, he clearly is not playing as a specialist spinner, but as a utility cricketer in the hope that his batting will start clicking and the team will get the elusive all rounder it is searching for.

And how long will the search last? Its obvious that the mythical batting abilities aren’t actually there. So in my opinion, it’s a straight shoot out b/w (Jadeja’s bowling + fielding) and (Ojha’s bowling + fielding). We can keep arguing over semantics all day long, but for all practical purposes, Jadeja is in the team as a specialist bowler, even though its his competitors inadequacies that are also keeping him in the team, than just the strength of his performances.

[The Outsider]

Depends on what your expectations are, from your second spinner. I think its more to keep things under control, than to run through batting line-ups. And Jadeja has been VERY good at that and he has the numbers to prove that, even as all our other bowlers have seen their numbers suffer a cliff-drop.

So you want a second specialist spinner as a purely run blocking option. Yuvraj and Sehwag have around the same economy rates as Jadeja. Why the frack would I want to play a specialist spinner when Yuvraj and Sehwag can do pretty much the same.

Coming to the other names, Mishra hasn’t exactly been a raging success at the ODI level, Ashwin is entirely untested at this level and there are valid concerns over the overall ‘selectability’ of Ramesh Powar. As far as Chawla goes, he did have a good start to his ODI career, but his bowling digressed rather dramatically, which probably explained he has not played a single ODI in the last 2 years! So to make a claim that there are HALF a dozen spin bowlers in the country who are better ODI bowlers than Jadeja is rather bold and lacking in evidence

I am not really going to get into this because frankly it's dumb to even suggest that as a bowler Jadeja is even in the same ballpark as the names I mentioned. Those are specialist spinners, capable of taking wickets and Jadeja is a trundling left arm nothing bowler maybe marginally better than Yuvraj. To suggest that Jadeja's bowling abilities are even remotely comparable to Powar and Ojha is just being stupid.

And how long will the search last? Its obvious that the mythical batting abilities aren’t actually there. So in my opinion, it’s a straight shoot out b/w (Jadeja’s bowling + fielding) and (Ojha’s bowling + fielding). We can keep arguing over semantics all day long, but for all practical purposes, Jadeja is in the team as a specialist bowler, even though its his competitors inadequacies that are also keeping him in the team, than just the strength of his performances.

It's not obvious at all, at least to the team selectors. They are still banking on him to deliver with the bat so India can get the right balance in the side with an all rounder we desperately need. What 'practical purposes'? Are you suggesting that Jadeja's ability with the bat, real or perceived, has no role in his selection over Ojha? If you are then count me out of the discussion because quite frankly it's an idiotic notion to think that Jadeja gets the nod over Ojha purely because of bowling + fielding combination.

[Ram]

So you want a second specialist spinner as a purely run blocking option. Yuvraj and Sehwag have around the same economy rates as Jadeja. Why the frack would I want to play a specialist spinner when Yuvraj and Sehwag can do pretty much the same.

That’s because Jadeja bowls an average of45 balls/match, while the number falls to 18/match for Sehwag and 15/match for Yuvraj. So even put together, they bowl 2 full overs less than Jadeja per match. And it blows my mind that you completely ignored those critical numbers and went merely by the economy rates even though you know that, taken in isolation, they can often be misleading. And the overall tenor of that post suggests as though we have attacking spin options teeming all over the country with averages of 25 and strike rates of 30, every game. Have you been watching ODIs at home lately? Everyone’s getting walloped Shwetabh , including our best ODI spinner, Bhajji.

I am not really going to get into this because frankly it's dumb to even suggest that as a bowler Jadeja is even in the same ballpark as the names I mentioned. Those are specialist spinners, capable of taking wickets and Jadeja is a trundling left arm nothing bowler maybe marginally better than Yuvraj. To suggest that Jadeja's bowling abilities are even remotely comparable to Powar and Ojha is just being stupid.

And to simply compartmentalize the skill-sets of players and merely do a ‘Bowling prowess of player 1’ Vs ‘Bowling prowess of player 2’ completely ignoring their overall ‘selectability’ is being even more stupid. Frankly, I don’t know how you can even bring in names like Powar into the discussion And please humor me with reg. to the other names you have mentioned. As I said, Mishra’s numbers aren’t any better, while Chawla got walloped by all and sundry in the IPL, even as the other spinners came out looking reasonable. I do concede with Ojha is definitely a better attacking option, while Ashwin has a lot of promise and is someone I like a lot. So yes, there are a couple of names out there who maybe better attacking spin options than Jadeja, but dozen other names? Once again, that is extremely ambitious, as it is lacking in evidence, factual or otherwise.

It's not obvious at all, at least to the team selectors. They are still banking on him to deliver with the bat so India can get the right balance in the side with an all rounder we desperately need. What 'practical purposes'? Are you suggesting that Jadeja's ability with the bat, real or perceived, has no role in his selection over Ojha? If you are then count me out of the discussion because quite frankly it's an idiotic notion to think that Jadeja gets the nod over Ojha purely because of bowling + fielding combination.

I am obviously not going to deny that Jadeja’s batting abilities have no role whatsoever in his selection over Ojha, but my point is that the degree to which it influences the decision is not as high as you think it to be. And to me, it is plain the team management has reconciled to the batting abilities of Jadeja, or lack of thereof. Else, why would they keep mentioning publicly that he’s there more as a specialist spinner. But as I said, his ability to hang around does tilt the scales in favor of him a bit, but not by much.

[zen]

And the overall tenor of that post suggests as though we have attacking spin options teeming all over the country with averages of 25 and strike rates of 30, every game. Have you been watching ODIs at home lately? Everyone’s getting walloped Shwetabh , including our best ODI spinner, Bhajji.

Oh boy, all the kid has done so far is cry over the economy of our pacers without putting things in to perspective, esp them bowling during PP and at the death! Now he says 'everyone is getting whalloped' (including the spinners) and suggesting that our spinners don't have a low SR so in a way we have to do with what's available (spinners with high SR). The kid couldn't understand something similar said wrt pacers, their ER by taking things in to perspective. In fact, he went so low as to include SR and ER of those bowlers, who weren't even likely to play the WC :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

That’s because Jadeja bowls an average of45 balls/match, while the number falls to 18/match for Sehwag and 15/match for Yuvraj. So even put together, they bowl 2 full overs less than Jadeja per match. And it blows my mind that you completely ignored those critical numbers and went merely by the economy rates even though you know that, taken in isolation, they can often be misleading.

So, they can't bowl an additional 2 overs together on average? The team can easily gain by having an extra batsman for whatever 4-5 runs those extra 2 overs might cost.

And the overall tenor of that post suggests as though we have attacking spin options teeming all over the country with averages of 25 and strike rates of 30, every game. Have you been watching ODIs at home lately? Everyone’s getting walloped Shwetabh , including our best ODI spinner, Bhajji.

Everyone? Who has played a reasonable amount of games besides Jadeja and Harbhajan in that 'everyone'? Even Yusuf Pathan has been able to bowl at around the same level as Jadeja. Jadeja offers nothing as a bowler.

And to simply compartmentalize the skill-sets of players and merely do a ‘Bowling prowess of player 1’ Vs ‘Bowling prowess of player 2’ completely ignoring their overall ‘selectability’ is being even more stupid. Frankly, I don’t know how you can even bring in names like Powar into the discussion

I don't know what you mean by 'selectability'! If you are contending that Jadeja is in the team as a specialist spinner, then obviously I am going to compare his bowling with other contenders. Are you going to pick Yasir Arafat over Courtney Walsh because he is more 'selectable', what ever the hell that means.

And please humor me with reg. to the other names you have mentioned. As I said, Mishra’s numbers aren’t any better, while Chawla got walloped by all and sundry in the IPL, even as the other spinners came out looking reasonable. I do concede with Ojha is definitely a better attacking option, while Ashwin has a lot of promise and is someone I like a lot. So yes, there are a couple of names out there who maybe better attacking spin options than Jadeja, but dozen other names? Once again, that is extremely ambitious, as it is lacking in evidence, factual or otherwise.

I don't need to look at numbers to know that Mishra, Kartik, Powar, Chawla are all much better spinners than Jadeja. Some might not have your mythical 'selectability', some might not have the numbers for a variety of reasons like small sample, playing in different conditions, not being given a continuous run whatever, but it should be plainly obvious to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of the game that Jadeja is nothing more than a left arm wheelie bin and can be compared to Yuvraj, but none of the other bowlers as a specialist spinner.

I am obviously not going to deny that Jadeja’s batting abilities have no role whatsoever in his selection over Ojha, but my point is that the degree to which it influences the decision is not as high as you think it to be. And to me, it is plain the team management has reconciled to the batting abilities of Jadeja, or lack of thereof. Else, why would they keep mentioning publicly that he’s there more as a specialist spinner. But as I said, his ability to hang around does tilt the scales in favor of him a bit, but not by much.

I don't give a frack about what these guys talk about in interviews. It's mostly garbage anyways and there is no need to read too much into it. The actions show that the team looks upon Jadeja as an all rounder, real or potential, else they are not that stupid to select him over at the very least Ojha who averages a good 15 points lower than him at a better economy rate, just because of his fielding.

[Ram]

So' date=' they can't bowl an additional 2 overs together on average? The team can easily gain by having an extra batsman for whatever 4-5 runs those extra 2 overs might cost. [/quote'] Sure, I am all for increased bowling workloads for the combo of Yuvraj+Sehwag+Raina. In fact, I’ve been advocating that all along. But I hope you realize that you CANNOT compare someone like Yuvraj and Jadeja, just because their overall career economy rates are similar because their workloads are completely different. Its obviously far easier to average 5 runs/over, when you bowling less than 3 overs/game, than when you’re bowling nearly 8 overs a game.

Everyone? Who has played a reasonable amount of games besides Jadeja and Harbhajan in that 'everyone'? Even Yusuf Pathan has been able to bowl at around the same level as Jadeja. Jadeja offers nothing as a bowler.

Not even close. Yusuf has been more expensive on an average and offers none of the consistency and control that Jadeja has been able to offer, which is the main reason why he continue to keep his place in team, despite being a complete no-show with the bat. In the 33 matches Jadeja has played since his debut, he has gone for 6 runs/over in an innings in just 5 matches. Source;http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/234675.html?class=2;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings But, in the same timeline, Yusuf has played far fewer matches (23), but has went for over 6 RPO on 8 occasions. Source; http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/32498.html?class=2;spanmin1=01+Feb+2009;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings In fact, this is one of the main reasons why Jadeja keeps getting the prod over the other spinning options. He’s not flamboyant and attacking with the ball, but he offers a lot of control that most captains yearn for in ODIs.

I don't know what you mean by 'selectability'! If you are contending that Jadeja is in the team as a specialist spinner, then obviously I am going to compare his bowling with other contenders. Are you going to pick Yasir Arafat over Courtney Walsh because he is more 'selectable', what ever the hell that means.

And if you wish to include names like Ramesh Powar in the discussion, completely ignoring his general fitness/fielding levels, even as the fielding standards of our team remain our biggest concern (which is obviously what I meant by ‘selectability’ ) or discuss guys like Chawla, who hasn’t played a game for India in more than 2 years in the discussion, feel free to do so. But the mere fact their names don’t even come up during selection these days should tell you how well the team management/selectors gauge their ODI bowling capabilities in comparison to Jadeja’s

I don't need to look at numbers to know that Mishra, Kartik, Powar, Chawla are all much better spinners than Jadeja. Some might not have your mythical 'selectability', some might not have the numbers for a variety of reasons like small sample, playing in different conditions, not being given a continuous run whatever, but it should be plainly obvious to anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of the game that Jadeja is nothing more than a left arm wheelie bin and can be compared to Yuvraj, but none of the other bowlers as a specialist spinner.

And I didn’t realize when this went from being a ‘Ravindra Jadeja the ODI Bowler Versus Mishra/Powar/Chawla the ODI bowlers’ debate to a ‘Jadeja the bowler Versus Chawla/Mishra/Powar’ debate. If you havent noticed already, I am not campaigning for Jadeja to be included in the test team ahead of names like Mishra or Chawla. I too know who’s the better spinner overall, but this is purely in reference to his ability to bowl controlled spells in ODIs and when it comes to that, he is as good if not better than any of his rivals.

I don't give a frack about what these guys talk about in interviews. It's mostly garbage anyways and there is no need to read too much into it. The actions show that the team looks upon Jadeja as an all rounder, real or potential, else they are not that stupid to select him over at the very least Ojha who averages a good 15 points lower than him at a better economy rate, just because of his fielding.

And we shall all wait and see how long it takes for Jadeja’s so-called batting abilities to manifest itself in real. And if you’re willing to live under the assumption that the Indian team still actually thinks Jadeja has any worthwhile batting abilities, even after witnessing the exhibition of his batting skills for nearly a year and a half, spread across 35 matches, you’re free to do so. But I’d like to think someone like Gary Kirsten or a Sachin Tendulkar know a good batsmen when they see one and wont continue to live under delusional assumptions, even after 35 matches of non-performance. The Indian team has obviously reconciled with Jadeja’s lack of batting capabilities and have even gone to the extent of conceding it publicly on more than one occasion . Only some people havent realized it yet.

[The Outsider]

And if you’re willing to live under the assumption that the Indian team still actually thinks Jadeja has any worthwhile batting abilities, even after witnessing the exhibition of his batting skills for nearly a year and a half, spread across 35 matches, you’re free to do so. But I’d like to think someone like Gary Kirsten or a Sachin Tendulkar know a good batsmen when they see one and wont continue to live under delusional assumptions, even after 35 matches of non-performance. The Indian team has obviously reconciled with Jadeja’s lack of batting capabilities, only some people havent realized it yet.

And that is why they keep on selecting someone who is averaging 43 with the ball with an economy rate of 4.8 over someone who averages 30 with the ball with an economy rate of 4.3? Oh yeah, must be for that 'selectability' factor that they are picking someone with a 40% worse bowling average and 15% worse economy rate? No, wake up it's because he is considered and picked as an all rounder. If you think otherwise, please give me some previous precedents, examples, or at the very least some logical basis as to why a team would pick a specialist bowler who has a vastly more crappy bowling performance than his competitor?

[Ram]

And that is why they keep on selecting someone who is averaging 43 with the ball with an economy rate of 4.8 over someone who averages 30 with the ball with an economy rate of 4.3? Oh yeah, must be for that 'selectability' factor that they are picking someone with a 40% worse bowling average and 15% worse economy rate? No, wake up it's because he is considered and picked as an all rounder. If you think otherwise, please give me some previous precedents, examples, or at the very least some logical basis as to why a team would pick a specialist bowler who has a vastly more crappy bowling performance than his competitor?

You keep making those comparions with Ojha, even though you know that have featured only in 4 common matches so far in their career + the fact that Ojha has not featured in any ODI match in India so far in the last 2 years, which is where some of the highest scoring series have taken place. But your question as to why would would the Indian team keep selecting Jadeja over Ojha if they consider him as a specialist spinner is a interesting one. My guess is, even till very recently they were secretly hoping that he actually does turn out to be a reasonable batsmen, but after waiting for neatly 18 months/35 matches without any results, it has probably finally dawned upon them that Jadeja is a lost cause (vis-à-vis, his batting). Come to think of it, if the Indian team still really though he’s in the team for all-rounder capabilities, why would Dhoni state TWICE, in the last 2 months alone, that Jadeja is in the team more as a specialist bowler? Isnt that publicly undermining your player? My guess is, they’ve essentially given up on his batting and hence are more willing to talk about his role in the team. Who knows, going forward, this realization will translate into opportunities for Ojha in the team, his inferior fielding notwithstanding.

[zen]

IMHO, for the bowling line up (basically from what's being tried out now): 1. Nehra has probably been our best ODI bowler in the last two years. 2. Zak comes in for the experience he lends 3. Bhajji (for lack of an alternative spinner atm) 4. 3rd seamer's place: B/w PK and Ishant, or may be Irfan as the bowling all-rounder (if playing three left arm quicks is not an issue) 5th bowler options: 1. Someone like Ojha as the specialist spinner, if Irfan is playing as the bowling all-rounder and 3rd seamer. This one depends up on how well Irfan is bowling. 2. Jadeja as the all-rounder. 3. Have part-timers bowl the 5th bowlers quota, for e.g. 3 overs: Yuvi, 2 overs: Raina: 5 overs: Sehwag. 1-2 overs from Tendulkar could be an option too. This option allows Ind to play with 7 specialist batsmen Points to consider: 1. Irfan's bowling vs Zak/Nehra/PK/Ishant 2. Irfan's batting vs 7 batsman's (Uthappa/ Kohli/...) / Jadeja's 3. Jadeja's bowling vs part-timers / 2nd specialist spinner 4. Jadeja's batting vs 7th batsman's (Uthappa/ Kohli/...) / Irfan's 5. Irfan's bowling vs Jadeja's All things considered, I would start out with a 11 like the one below: based on what's on display so far) - Tendulkar - Sehwag - Gambhir - Raina - Yuvi - Dhoni - Uthappa (also serves as make shift WK, if required) - Bhajji / spinner - PK / Ishant - Zak - Nehra Reserves: - Ojha / Ashwin / Mishra / Chawla - PK / Ishant (one that's not playing) - Kohli - May be someone like Nayar (useful player) or Panday (excellent fielder) or Karthik (gives versatility) or Irfan (all-rounder option) or ....

[The Outsider]

You keep making those comparions with Ojha, even though you know that have featured only in 4 common matches so far in their career + the fact that Ojha has not featured in any ODI match in India so far in the last 2 years, which is where some of the highest scoring series have taken place. But your question as to why would would the Indian team keep selecting Jadeja over Ojha if they consider him as a specialist spinner is a interesting one. My guess is, even till very recently they were secretly hoping that he actually does turn out to be a reasonable batsmen, but after waiting for neatly 18 months/35 matches without any results, it has probably finally dawned upon them that Jadeja is a lost cause (vis-à-vis, his batting). Come to think of it, if the Indian team still really though he’s in the team for all-rounder capabilities, why would Dhoni state TWICE, in the last 2 months alone, that Jadeja is in the team more as a specialist bowler? Isnt that publicly undermining your player? My guess is, they’ve essentially given up on his batting and hence are more willing to talk about his role in the team. Who knows, going forward, this realization will translate into opportunities for Ojha in the team, his inferior fielding notwithstanding.

You are reading way too much into these press conferences and interviews. These guys play cricket matches dime and dozen. Before, after, and during each match they have to give press conferences, then some more in between tours, after each selection, after each player resting etc. etc. They just go out and say some stuff. I don't even bother listening to the same recycled crap. Dhoni might have said what he said for hazaar different reasons, but there is simply no logical reason to play Jadeja as a specialist bowler. I'll go further than that and say that it's stupidity of some real top class to even think that Jadeja has the ability to become a specialist spinner in this lifetime. And I don't believe anyone involved in the team selection can be that dumb. Whether they have given up on his batting ability and credentials or not, I have no way of knowing. Again, because I don't read anything in those conferences. If they have and they still want to play 5 bowlers, expect to see Ojha in the series against Australia, a specialist batsman if they feel part timers can do the job, or more of Jadeja if they still feel he has the works to develop into something decent before the World Cup. At least that's the way in which I would like to think about the entire situation. Thinking and hoping that Jadeja can morph into anything more than a part time bowler without a reincarnation, would be just idiotic.

[The Outsider]

Ok, so here’s the stat table that Rett does NOT want you to see.

Bowler	Matches	Wkts	Economy	SR
Seamers				
Nehra	13	16	6.56	39.5
PK	10	8	6.01	55
Zak	5	7	6.22	38.5
Ishant	6	7	6.66	36
[B]Tyagi     2           1           5.10      87
Sreesanth 3        4           8.20     30[/B]
Spinners				
Bhajji	11	14	4.66	44.1
Jadeja	14	15	4.86	44.6
YP	3	4	5.31	43.5

Last time I checked, both Sreesanth and Tyagi were seam bowlers as well and they played ODIs at home as well, in the time frame that he listed. Now, do you want to see how the numbers stack up now? Now, the seamers together have a combined strike rate of 47.833 and an economy rate of 6.63, while the spinners put together have a strike rate of 44 and an economy of 4.94. Yes, as far as I can tell from those numbers, we have lots of strike seamers in our team and pace is the way forward in India, for the world cup. :cantstop:

Did you just add all the strike rates and divide them by the number of bowlers in each category? :winky: The average strike rate of the seamers is (16*39.5 + 8*55 + ....)/(16 + 8 + ....) = 41.8 and the spinners is 44.2.

[punjabi_khota]

^:rotfl: ...So it is not just geography

[zen]

Comparing the ER of seamers, who usually bowl at death and during PP, to spinners', who usually bowl during middle overs, to show that spinners are more effective takes the cake of joke of the year :hehe: :icflove: for the laughs

[Holysmoke]

The world cup is quite far away. I will see who is in form at that time and then decide.

[Ram]

Did you just add all the strike rates and divide them by the number of bowlers in each category? :winky: The average strike rate of the seamers is (16*39.5 + 8*55 + ....)/(16 + 8 + ....) = 41.8 and the spinners is 44.2.

Yes, if you use that table, you'd get the SR to be whatever number you got. But I didnt use that table, why? Because the numbers listed there are obviously not complete. If you havent noticed already, I wasnt the one who put that original table. It was the handiwork of the other dude who is desperately spending his night-light taking pot-shots at me to grab my attention, all in vain. I only added two names at the end of - Sreesanth and Tyagi. Back then, I went back and checked those numbers and found that they didnt match the reality. So i calculated the SR for the pacers not based on that table, but based on the numbers I got. And here they are. (and you're free to check them from cricinfo)

Bowler	SR	
Nehra	38.83
Ishant	37.8
P.Kumar	55.33
Tyagi	87
Zak	38.5
Sree	30	

And you'll find that the listed pacers, for those three series, have a combined SR of 47.9. And if you were to include Munaf and Mithun (which i didnt do intially because i couldnt bother to, even though i knew it would actually bolster my case) in the discussion as well, here's how the table looks

Bowler	SR	
Nehra	38.83
Ishant	37.8
P.Kumar	55.33
T'gi+M'n135
Zak	38.5
Sree	30
Munaf   78

Now, the seamers combined SR shoots to an even more impressive 51.5 :hysterical: Next time, be careful what you wish for..:winky:

[zen]

Yes, if you use that table, you'd get the SR to be whatever number you got. But I didnt use that table, why? Because the numbers listed there are of someone's figment of imagination and not the facts. If you havent noticed already, I wasnt the one who put that original table. It was the handiwork of the other dude whose desperately spending his night-light taking pot-shots at me and grab my attention in vain. I only added two names at the end of - Sreesanth and Tyagi. Back then, I went back and checked those numbers and found that they didnt match the reality. So i calculated the SR for the pacers not based on that table, but based on the numbers I got. And here they are. (and you're free to check them from cricinfo)

Bowler	SR	
Nehra	38.83
Ishant	37.8
P.Kumar	64.33
Tyagi	87
Zak	38.5
Sree	30	

Appears as if you have a habit of making false claims, this time for the stats I used. poor kid probably didn't even realize that those stats were for ODIs in Ind since 1 Aug 2009. (enclosed) :P Arre bhai, I am not taking any pot shots at you (don't overestimate your worth). But yeah, for fun on internet for some laughs for timepass, sometimes I don't mind showing mirror to dumbasses, who think they are smart when they are not and make stuff up as if others will buy it at face value. But good to see you get in to complain mode. No hard feelings :grin:

And you'll find that the listed pacers, for those three series, have a combined SR of 49.4 and not 47.83 (I was being conservative in calculation to make sure i dont overstate my case) as i wrote earlier. And if you were to include Munaf and Mithun (which i didnt do intially because i couldnt bother to, even though i knew it would actually bolster my case) in the discussion as well, here's how the table looks

Bowler	SR	
Nehra	38.83
Ishant	37.8
P.Kumar	64.33
T'gi+M'n135
Zak	38.5
Sree	30
Munaf   78

Now, the seamers combined SR shoots to an even more impressive 52.8 :hysterical: Next time, be careful what you wish for..:winky:

But that doesn't show a thing w/o comparison with how spinners have fared (your favorite comparison).s Unless ofc you plan to use spinners' stat from my table (again not apples to apples but that's how you seem to make your points) :--D I don't think most folks would care about your stats of those 3 series. Appears as if you haven't learned your lesson yet. Your arguments won't stand much here and will be thrown out in the next post .... But anyways, keep digging :P

[Ram]

poor kid probably didn't even realize that those stats were for ODIs in Ind since 1 Aug 2009. (enclosed)

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: And what were the ODI series' that we played in India since Aug '09? :hysterical: You are only entitled to your own stupid opinions, not to your facts and statistics as well.

[zen]

:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: And what were the ODI series' that we played in India since Aug '09? :hysterical: You are only entitled to your own stupid opinions, not to your facts and statistics as well.

ah ha, the kid probably thinks he made some point there^ :hysterical:

[Ram]

Yes, pick and choose whom you and want and whom you and whom you dont want and a case for strike seaming attack, never mind that one of the guy you chose actually got DROPPED because he bowled that poorly and the other guy missed two of three series in consideration due to injury:hysterical: