Indian All Time XI - By cricinfo experts

[coffee_rules]

The fact of the matter is, irrespective of what Wisden ‘reported’, there’s nothing in either the scorecard or the circumstances of the Delhi test, to suggest that it was bad pitch for batsmen. If anything, half of our test wins in the 90s will fit that exact same profile.

How will you know the state of the pitch, by looking at scorecard? Even by reading the scorecard, if I see one player making 150 while others from either team barely cross 40 (one 50 by Ganguly and one by Waugh), I would think that batting would generally be difficult on the pitch and the value of that 150 is considered highly valuable.

[coffee_rules]

Why is Vinoo Mankad (Batting ave 31, Bowling ave 32) considered a better contributor than an regular bowler (like Bedi or Chandra or Gupte) or a regular batsman (GRV or Mohinder, or DBV or VVSL)? We also have 1 allrounder, why do we need 2? VM's selection baffles me...

[The Outsider]

Dhoni >> Mongia in batting Mongia > Dhoni in keeping Dhoni >>>>> Mongia as captain. So, Dhoni is chosen over others because of this allround capabilities and how he can contribute to the team. If Gilly is chosen for Aus ATX1 for the same reason over other superior keepers, why can Dhoni be chosen for the same reason.

Agree with your assessments, but you should bear in mind that Dhoni was not chosen as the captain of the team, so the captaincy comparison is not relevant. Regarding Gilchrist's choice making sense and Dhoni's not, at least in my view : 1. Dhoni is not even in the same league as Gilchrist as a test batsman. 2. Gilchirst is batting at number 7 in the all time Australian XI, Dhoni is batting at 8. If the all time Indian XI had the wicketkeeper batting at 7, even I would have chosen Dhoni because at number 7 you need a good batsman - my primary reason for not wanting India to go in with 5 bowlers in the current setup. 3. With such a strong batting line up, there will be very few occasions when the number 8 batsman can make a meaningful contribution. Kapil is already playing the role in the all time XI of what Dhoni does in the current Indian team. But there will be many occasions where you would want a better keeper than Dhoni, specially with 3 front line spinners in the side. And it's a myth that Dhoni has not cost us matches and series with his keeping. The just concluded Sri Lanka series is an example where his dropped catch off Sangakkara at Galle cost us the series.

[The Outsider]

Why is Vinoo Mankad (Batting ave 31, Bowling ave 32) considered a better contributor than an regular bowler (like Bedi or Chandra or Gupte) or a regular batsman (GRV or Mohinder, or DBV or VVSL)? We also have 1 allrounder, why do we need 2? VM's selection baffles me...

CR to understand Mankad's value you have to look beyond numbers. Mankad played in an era when our team was absolutely crap. Along with Hazare, he was the single biggest reason why the Indian team progressed to the next level. If you just look at the numbers, even Kapil's numbers of a batting average of 31 and bolwing average of 29 are not earth shaking. But if you have watched the game and followed the impact Kapil had on the side, how he relentlessly toiled on dead tracks, you would know his true abilities. Mankad by all accounts from his days was a world class player - capable of entering any contemporary side on his bowling alone and a very accomplished batsman, whose average suffered because he played a lot of his innings lower down the order with little or no support from the other end and had to throw his wicket away to get some quick runs before the tail was dismissed. If you check his average as an opener it is 40+ and in those days of a weak team and brittle support an average of 40+ for an Indian opener was really, really good. He also was the first Indian to hit 2 double centuries, both opening.

[ZodiaC]

BTW who's the skipper of the XI? :dontknow:

[Bublu Bhuyan]

Now all I want is for Cricinfo to prepare an All Time World XI.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

On another note, can't believe lots of people were crying for Ganguly not getting a spot on Cricinfo's page comments.

[ZodiaC]

On another note' date=' can't believe lots of people were crying for Ganguly not getting a spot on Cricinfo's page comments.[/quote'] He's the only left hander in the lineup, is reasonably good in both ODI's and Tests, and arguably the best Indian captain of all time. What's so shocking about it?

[achilles]

WTF is Dhoni doing in there? :dontknow: I would also play Nissar ahead of Srinath, but the selection of Dhoni defies all logic. He is not half the keeper that Kirmani, Mongia or More were.

Agreed about Nissar sahab. I think Farooq Engineer should've made it atleast to the nominees. Agree with most of your points in the other posts, about why Dhoni shouldn't be there.

[nballa]

ganguly should be made the captain. the list is a travesty.

[achilles]

On another note' date=' can't believe lots of people were crying for Ganguly not getting a spot on Cricinfo's page comments.[/quote'] I think he should've been there.

[Sooda]

Yeah, CR.. Mankad is one of the finest all rounders in history. He was pretty much THE reason why India won thier first test in England... took 12 wickets IIRC Had incredible stamina could bowl all day and then go into bat and score big runs. As Outy says his average suffers as a result of being shuffled too much, Im sure he batted everywhere in the order from 1-11!! But made tons opening in both Eng and Aus versus good attacks. Good foil for Pras and Kumble and more than handy no 6/7

[SJS50]

1. Gavaskar
2. Sehwag
3. Dravid
4. Tendulkar
5. Hazare
6. Mankad
7. Kapil
8. Engineer
9. Kumble/Gupte
10. Amar Singh/Nissar
11. Prasanna

[The Outsider]

SJS, how was Engineer as a wicketkeeper? Most of the things I read about him have been related to his flamboyant batting, and very little about his keeping abilities.

[Bublu Bhuyan]

He's the only left hander in the lineup' date=' is reasonably good in both ODI's and Tests, and arguably the best Indian captain of all time. What's so shocking about it?[/quote'] Whom would he have replaced in the line up? Let's look at some of the other contenders. Gundappa Vishwanath makes a case 100 times stronger than him. Vengsarkar and Amarnath too make much stronger cases than him. All of them averaged 42 odd in the greatest ever era of fast bowling. Even Laxman makes a much stronger case than him. That's four players who'll get preferences ahead of him. I'm a fan of Ganguly. But one needs to rationalize things and not just speak from the heart. P.S. I think the best Indian captain of all time would have to be Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi. Ganguly would certainly come at second though.

[Sooda]

India A Gautam Gambhir Vijay Merchant Mohinder Amarnath Gundappa Vishwanath VVS Laxman Saurav Ganguly © Syed Kirmani L Amar Singh Bishan Bedi Mohd Nissar B Chandrashekhar

[rabinjackman]

amar singh and mohammad nisaar were world class bowlers at the time that they played. one of them should have been selected in this all time 11 list. Even though srinath was fast , he was mostly erratic with an ishant sharma length. Only on a few occasions was he lethal. In college me n my gang of friends, all of us part of the college cricket team were a frustrated lot as far as srinath was concerned. this guy used to come to the crease with his lovely run up, bowl with a nice action, but the same damn length. he rarely bowled yorkers or accurate bouncers. A man with talent but an underachiever. Going by history and literature i would put Amar singh and Nissar above him based on performance. But in the end who knows... who among us have seen AS and MN bowl?

[someone]

One thing which I noticed, how poor is our fast bowling department that we still cannot name any genuine great fast bowler. When people think of Zaheer Khan in the all time XI, it just tells us how poor the fast bowling is in India

[SJS50]

SJS' date=' how was Engineer as a wicketkeeper? Most of the things I read about him have been related to his flamboyant batting, and very little about his keeping abilities.[/quote'] If he had not been such a wonderful attacking batsman as well more people would have appreciated what a wonderful keeper he was. Some people like to say that Kirmani was a better keeper. I disagree. Kirmani was a fabulous keeper as well and the two of them were India's finest ever but Engineer was better and a complete natural. People find it difficult to appreciate good keeping in the absence of much discussion about keeping skills but experts and commentators with the result that the nuances of keeping are hardly known to most which is a tragedy for it is a wonderful art and of all the cricketing arts this is the one where natural aptitude counts for most. Sometimes you may not have a clue about your potential as a keeper and could be put in a position to be one by accident and discover you have it in you. Of course there is technique which is grossly neglected today even by coaches in the race to find a batting keeper rather than a good keeper who can bat if needed. You can tell a good keeper even if he makes no catches or stumpings as you watch him. You have to just watch his movements as the ball pitches and rises and see how low he remains (and rises with the ball) with his gloves always remaining in line with where the ball is at that point in time. There is a fabulous clip on you tube of one of Barry Richards' great centuries (in county cricket) against Hampshire. Watch it once for Richards' masterful display and then watch it again for Engineer behind the stump. I wish there was a slow motion possibility on you tube but you will see what I mean. Although a couple of shots are shown in slow motion too. Maybe I should set up my camera and shoot of some sequential shots. Maybe I will try that later to show what I mean. :-) PS : I must admit there isn't much between Kiri and Farroukh as keepers. I would in any case take Engineer for besides being probably India's finest ever keeper, he was no slouch with the bat. He almost scored a century before lunch once and faced fast bowlers with fearless authority.

[ZodiaC]

Whom would he have replaced in the line up? Let's look at some of the other contenders. Gundappa Vishwanath makes a case 100 times stronger than him. Vengsarkar and Amarnath too make much stronger cases than him. All of them averaged 42 odd in the greatest ever era of fast bowling. Even Laxman makes a much stronger case than him. That's four players who'll get preferences ahead of him. I'm a fan of Ganguly. But one needs to rationalize things and not just speak from the heart. P.S. I think the best Indian captain of all time would have to be Mansoor Ali Khan Pataudi. Ganguly would certainly come at second though.

But nothing wrong considering there's no LHB in the team, so can't say it was shocking or something. His ability to play spinners, captaincy skills, and decent part timer, overall not a poor choice. I just said that there's nothing outlandish in selecting Gangs, but these are better deserving candidates, totally agree.