The African Safari: Make or break test series

[Chandan]

Well, I wanted a thread where we could discuss about our squad to SA and its various pros and cons separate from an ODI squad of a series which will be taking place in India. Hence a separate thread! The squad is: MS Dhoni (capt), Virender Sehwag, Gautam Gambhir, Rahul Dravid, VVS Laxman, Sachin Tendulkar, Suresh Raina, M Vijay, Cheteshwar Pujara, Wriddhiman Saha, Harbhajan Singh, Zaheer Khan, Ishant Sharma, Sreesanth, Umesh Yadav, Jaidev Unadkat, Pragyan Ojha. The batsmen more or less pick themselves up and only spot remains to be decided finally is that of #6. And both the competitors are present in the final squad. Vijay, though I'm a bit unconviced if he can do the job in SA if need arises, has earned his place as a back up opener. Saha is a quota player but he has come up because Karthik and Parthiv have failed miserably in the Ranji trophy till now. Bhajji and Ojha are are the two main spinners at the moment and it is sad to see Amit Mishra having lost his way so badly after starting with a bang two years back. Had he been on track, he could have been our chief weapon in SA. Now the seamers: Here is what Shwetabh had written few day back: Link

There are only 5 viable pace bowling options in the country : 1. Zaheer 2. Sreesanth 3. Ishant 4. Unadkat (very green, but has done well in all opportunities) 5. Praveen Kumar (trundler, but could serve as a back up along with Munaf)

4 of his options are in the 15 but it is Yadav's presence which is most worrying. First 3 choices are going to be in starting XI anyway, but what will happen if any of the 3 injury prone bowlers are ruled out of even one match? Won't we have to kiss that match goodbye there and then? None of Unadkat or Yadav are as brillant a bowler what Ishant and Pathan were when they debuted. So that logic won't work here that if a green Pathan or Ishant could deliver why can't these bowlers. In fact, of what I've seen of Yadav, he is quite an average bowler who just couldn't trouble any of the Australian batsmen in BP XI vs Australia match this year. I just can't find the scorecard to quote here. If anyone does, please put it here in this thread. So if not Yadav, who could have been the 5th seamers? I'd have preferred an experienced hand here and if none othere then even Munaf would have been okay. What about you people? Are you satisfied with the squad? Do you think this squad can deliver?

[cowboysfan]

i thought Mithun was a slam dunk for the bouncy pitches in SA but cheeka might think otherwise.Does anybody know the reason he was not picked?.i guess Yadav is the next in line line if the top 3 get injured and that looks highly probable.

[Chandan]

i thought Mithun was a slam dunk for the bouncy pitches in SA but cheeka might think otherwise.Does anybody know the reason he was not picked?.i guess Yadav is the next in line line if the top 3 get injured and that looks highly probable.

That'll be diaster waiting to happen. When and how did Yadav elevate himself to 4th test seamer of the country? What are his achievements? He will be smashed to all corners of the ground --thats what I've gathered from whatever little I've seen of him. Are you satisfied with his selection? What is your opinion?

[cowboysfan]

That'll be diaster waiting to happen. When and how did Yadav elevate himself to 4th test seamer of the country? What are his achievements? He will be smashed to all corners of the ground --thats what I've gathered from whatever little I've seen of him. Are you satisfied with his selection? What is your opinion?

Unadkat selection is laughable at best.He is not ready at all and wont be for years.I have seen Yadav in the odis and the only thing about him that stood out is that he has pace.I dont know if he can sustain it in a test match though.

[kabira]

We are making same mistake we made last time around selecting VRV for his pace. Yadav is simiilar kind of hit the deck bowler, I think Unadkat is ahead of him as he has been in the squad for both australia and newzealand series. We just hope Sree, Ishant and Zaheer play our 3 tests at their full fitness. If that happens the series will be cracker. Remember even SA do not have proper 3rd seamer, Ntini has retired (has he)... So lot of pressure on Steyn and Morkel with Kallis bowling few overs here and there. SA will think twice before creating green wickets when they see Zaheer, SS and Ishant in the oppositiion line up.

[youngindia]

Vijay' date=' though I'm a bit unconviced if he can do the job in SA if need arises, has earned his place as a back up opener. [/quote'] Vijay is a quality player.even if he does not find immediate success abroad, he has to be persisted with.his talent will ensure he comes good sooner or latter.

Saha is a quota player but he has come up because Karthik and Parthiv have failed miserably in the Ranji trophy till now.

Karthik for previous experience.

Bhajji and Ojha are are the two main spinners at the moment and it is sad to see Amit Mishra having lost his way so badly after starting with a bang two years back.

the left arm spinner has to go...they are a waste of time....legspinners required.

None of Unadkat or Yadav are as brillant a bowler what Ishant and Pathan were when they debuted.

ishant didn't take a bagful of wickets in australia but the quality of his wickets were good. getting ponting twice and clarke once in the perth test was a valuable contribution. Realistically , the contributions has to come from the known three. the younger pacers will do well to chip in here and there with useful wickets.

In fact, of what I've seen of Yadav, he is quite an average bowler who just couldn't trouble any of the Australian batsmen in BP XI vs Australia match this year.

they probably think he has better chances to develop than the others. the fact is the likes of pathan and rp singh screwed themselves by their erratic ways and we find ourselves in this situation.

So if not Yadav, who could have been the 5th seamers? I'd have preferred an experienced hand here and if none othere then even Munaf would have been okay.

there is no one available except PK. pk is for england and nz not SA . munaf is not ok at all.certainly not the one post 2006

[Chandan]

Remember even SA do not have proper 3rd seamer, Ntini has retired (has he)... So lot of pressure on Steyn and Morkel with Kallis bowling few overs here and there. SA will think twice before creating green wickets when they see Zaheer, SS and Ishant in the oppositiion line up.

What are you saying Kabira! Parnell and Tsotsobe are handful and any of the two can be a very able third seamer! I don't think SA has any worries there on that front!

Vijay is a quality player.even if he does not find immediate success abroad' date=' he has to be persisted with.his talent will ensure he comes good sooner or latter.[/quote'] Don't understand how the comment here makes sense. Vijay has a non existent bakfoot play and wonder how that player can play on bouncy tracks without backfoot play and whats the point of keeping him in the squad for SA if you know that he doesn't have the basic technique to play there? The moment he develps his back foot game, he will be a terrific player for all tracks as he has a wonderful temerament.

Karthik for previous experience.

Another confusing quote. Are you writing this as yoyr opinion or what selectors should have done! And wonder why can't Vijay's logic be applied here too, though I'm no fan of Saha.

the left arm spinner has to go...they are a waste of time....legspinners required.

And which leg spinner is that? What do you mean by required? Are we gining ads for some kind og employment post or what!

Realistically , the contributions has to come from the known three. the younger pacers will do well to chip in here and there with useful wickets.

If the main 3 seamers play all the tests, we won't require the two greenhorns hopefully.

they probably think he has better chances to develop than the others. the fact is the likes of pathan and rp singh screwed themselves by their erratic ways and we find ourselves in this situation.

And Yadav is less erratic? He is the most erratic of all the mentioned debutants. I saw him play the ODIs and he was hammered by Zim batsmen.

[kabira]

What are you saying Kabira! Parnell and Tsotsobe are handful and any of the two can be a very able third seamer! I don't think SA has any worries there on that front!

Those two are new and don't have test match experience. Most likely it will be Parnell. But again man to man we have better seam attack.

[Sooda]

We have kind of discussed Yadav in the other 'Can Umesh Yadav be a good test match bowler... ' I for one think he is done notihng to prove he is good enough. Ordinary plate leage FC record and as you say got carted around in BP match http://www.espncricinfo.com/india-v-australia-2010/engine/current/match/464525.html 0/83 in 18 ovs then 1/44 in 9 in the 2 Aus innings. Chandan whats your view on Mithun and why he was not retained after the SL series? I did not watch it at all, but from what I read he impressed on the pattas there. Seems to have good heart and a good athelete. The type of wickets in SA might have suited his bowling more. As you say- bit more experienced too, I would have had him and Munaf instead of Yadav and Unadkat. And prayed the first choice 3 stayed fit. Hugely inconsistent selection, dissapointing really. They will ruin Unadkat, he needs at least two FC seasons before he can play for India. It is unfair to ask him to learn his trade at test level. youngindia has a point re: leggies, historically they have been more successful there, but Mishra has barely played recently I think.

[ZodiaC]

That'll be diaster waiting to happen. When and how did Yadav elevate himself to 4th test seamer of the country? What are his achievements? He will be smashed to all corners of the ground --thats what I've gathered from whatever little I've seen of him. Are you satisfied with his selection? What is your opinion?

Chandan exactly my thoughts. He was spraying it all over in the Zimbabwe series - that too in an ODI. Him being outbowled by Dinda (in terms of both pace & accuracy) shows he should nowhere near the test squad. Yes, he may have potential to make it big, but a BIG NO as of now.

[vaibhav_delhi]

Thats quite a big squad of 17 members for only 3 test matches (no warm up matches). Maybe Munaf patel deserved a spot, other than that it looks fine.

[youngindia]

Don't understand how the comment here makes sense. Vijay has a non existent bakfoot play and wonder how that player can play on bouncy tracks without backfoot play

shot selection. On bouncier tracks,pulls and cuts does help in punishing the opposition. but most indian batsmen are ok with the cut but poor at pulls except a few greats like sachin,dravid,gavaskar This problem goes way deeper in indian cricket and beyond vijay. for now, all i can say he has the class to succeed.

And which leg spinner is that? What do you mean by required? Are we gining ads for some kind og employment post or what!

Yes , i am stating the requirements for a penetrative bowling lineup. A left arm spinner is not going to to run through sides. a quality leg spinner can.

He is the most erratic of all the mentioned debutants. I saw him play the ODIs and he was hammered by Zim batsmen.

look the likes of irfan and rp singh were given opportunities to develop. they didn't develop as one would have liked. now yadav get a chance to develop or fail.

[Chandan]

It is the the selection of highly erraric Yadav with no variations that has most of us disaapointed here. Even Mithun would have been much better as he has tasted test cricket and that too the hardest way when none of the experienced bowlers were, either seamer or spinner, were around, on the toughest pitch for a pace bowler. This would have been a good opportunity to prove his worth in relatively bowler friendly contions, if he got a chance to bowl there. Unadkat won't even get that opportunity, hopefully!

[zen]

Overall, it is a good and well balanced squad. Haven't followed Saha's performances of late so don't know if Karthik would have been a better choice. May be a leggie like Mishy could have been picked as one of the two spinners but again haven't seen his performances of late .... Good to see promising bowlers like Yadav and Unadkat make it.

[vaibhav_delhi]

No one is bothered about Dinda here! It is the the selection of highly erraric Yadav with no variations that has most of us disaapointed here. Even Mithun would have been much better as he has tasted test cricket and that too the hardest way when none of the experienced bowlers were, either seamer or spinner, were around, on the toughest pitch for a pace bowler. This would have been a good opportunity to prove his worth in relatively bowler friendly contions, if he got a chance to bowl there. Unadkat won't even get that opportunity, hopefully!

Mithun lacks pace. Cant bowl a bouncer. Pace Bowling attack would have been unidimensional with mithun in place of yadav

[rkt.india]

With what i saw of umesh yadav in challengr trophy final He can be very handy in SA....He is more consistent than sreesanth and even sreesnth didnt do anythng spcial in warm game vs aus n ishant though he took 5, he was rubbish initialy in his first test

[vaibhav_delhi]

selectors have done a commendable job imo.

[saneindian]

PK and Mithun sould have been an ideal choice as the 4th and 5th seamer for this trip. PK providing us the swing option and Mithun the hit the deck seam bowler. Yadav and Uadkat IMO are still raw and under development. But then now that they have been selected, I will back them to do well for us if need arises. Remember how Mithun was written off completely but made a decent impression on dead tracks. Also, it will not be a bad idea to play them in the 1-2 ODIs vs the kiwis.

[vaibhav_delhi]

PK and Mithun sould have been an ideal choice as the 4th and 5th seamer for this trip. PK providing us the swing option and Mithun the hit the deck seam bowler. Yadav and Uadkat IMO are still raw and under development. But then now that they have been selected, I will back them to do well for us if need arises. Remember how Mithun was written off completely but made a decent impression on dead tracks. Also, it will not be a bad idea to play them in the 1-2 ODIs vs the kiwis.

well PK is a slowish swing bowler who doesnt even have bounce. Not sure how effective he would have been. India's certainly got better prospects than pk in tests. Btw I am not from the school of thought which says young pacers got to be given ateast 1-2 seasons in FC. I'd say if they are good enough, throw them straight in the national squad. there are plenty of 19 yr old successful pacers eg. parnell, sharma, amir etc

[rkt.india]

Mithun is a gud athlte n has a good heart But the main main prblm is his ungainly action...Which is a bit of a handicap for him and stops him to becme an international level..While umesh yadav has a better action and balance n bowls 10 ks quicker thn him