The Pathan Bomb Strikes Again

[Late Cut]

Well said Fontaine.

[pensionplan]

Doesn't matter. That criticism can be applied to virtually ANY modern batsmen in the limited overs game. Take a look at Graeme Smith. See how poorly he looks against quality left hand bowling? Does that mean you question the player and drop someone like Smith because he looks like a complete muppet against Zak? No, ofcourse not. Quality bowling, especially on tracks that have something in it for bowlers will usually limit even top batsmen. With Yusuf Pathan there's no point expecting him to be playing glorious cover drives with perfect footwork and technique. Look at Rohit Sharma, he has those qualities and where has it gotten him? Even his best innings are no match for Yusuf on a good day. No, Yusuf is a violent war like demi god of batting. Ideally he should be floated up and down the order as a pinch hitter depending on the match situation. If there are just a few overs left then bring him up the order to unleash hell. If there are 20 or more overs left then maybe he should come out lower down the order. That's how I would use him as a batsmen and if you look at the BEST ODI cricket India has played in the last three years it's following a very structured approach: Violence from Sehwag at the top Grafting/building innings from Gambhir/SRT/Dhoni/Raina in the middle overs. More Violence lower down from Yuvi/Yusuf With that approach and mixture of power hitting and patience from our middle order India have easily breached the 300 run mark time and time again whether chasing or setting a target. Dhoni in particular has emphasized this approach and said numerous times that one or two players need to stabilize the innings while the rest of the power hitters bat around them and go after the bowlers. The first/last 12 overs is the key. When the power hitters in this team get their form and mojo going then there isn't any team on this planet that can even compete against us. We've demolished good teams like England, Sri Lanka, South Africa using the same approach at home in ODIs. We're not going to win the world cup with great bowling/fielding because we're not consistent enough in those areas. We're going to win it by putting 300 plus scores and mentally scaring the crap out of teams before they even take the field. You don't use a dentists fine tuned drill to knock down a wall. You use the biggest sledgehammer available. Pathan is our best power hitter lower down the order (it's no longer Yuvi/Raina/Dhoni). Use him as such.

May be we are looking at things slightly differently here. Let me eloborate a bit on my point of view. Everyone has their shorcomings against quality bowling in testing conditions. Why only Smith? Even greats like SRT and VVS have succumbed to quality bowling at one time or the other while playing the best form of cricket which is the Tests. What one has to look for is how often a player can come up on tops when confronted with good bowling. That is what seperates greats like SRT, VVS to someone more ordinary. The degrees of how good one can be against good quality bowling is what I am talking about. YP is not even close thus far in his career to even make a meanigful case. The dude has exactly 2 very good ODI's knocks thus far. In the earlier stints in the ODI team he was dropped for being not able to put bat to ball while facing balls with some pace. That may be a slight exaggeration but one can get the drift. While people are intrigued by the potential of his brutal assault when he gets going so far in his career outside of the IPL1 he has not done anything of any significance or shown any sort of a consistency to even discuss him honestly speaking. What the last two knocks have shown us is here may be a player that perhaps has turned his career around for the good. However the jury is still out on him and one has to wait and watch on how things go from here. YP knows mighty well from his past experiences that he has to be consistent to have any sort of an extended run here and build his career from there on. Afterall Indian selectors always play musical chairs with the fringe players and YP despite the monster he can be with the bat when he gets going is still one at this point. Hope that changes and he continues to build on the momentum he has going at the moment.

[Fontaine]

May be we are looking at things slightly differently here. Let me eloborate a bit on my point of view. Everyone has their shorcomings against quality bowling in testing conditions. Why only Smith? Even greats like SRT and VVS have succumbed to quality bowling at one time or the other while playing the best form of cricket which is the Tests. What one has to look for is how often a player can come up on tops when confronted with good bowling. That is what seperates greats like SRT, VVS to someone more ordinary. The degrees of how good one can be against good quality bowling is what I am talking about. YP is not even close thus far in his career to even make a meanigful case. The dude has exactly 2 very good ODI's knocks thus far. In the earlier stints in the ODI team he was dropped for being not able to put bat to ball while facing balls with some pace. That may be a slight exaggeration but one can get the drift. While people are intrigued by the potential of his brutal assault when he gets going so far in his career outside of the IPL1 he has not done anything of any significance or shown any sort of a consistency to even discuss him honestly speaking. What the last two knocks have shown us is here may be a player that perhaps has turned his career around for the good. However the jury is still out on him and one has to wait and watch on how things go from here. YP knows mighty well from his past experiences that he has to be consistent to have any sort of an extended run here and build his career from there on. Afterall Indian selectors always play musical chairs with the fringe players and YP despite the monster he can be with the bat when he gets going is still one at this point. Hope that changes and he continues to build on the momentum he has going at the moment.

You're over exaggerating. How many number 6/7 batsmen in the world are expected to be quality batsmen? The ODI game has moved on. People like Razzak, Cameron White etc all play the same power hitter role down the order like Pathan. Who cares if they aren't quality batsmen against top bowling? They are not expected to be that. They're expected to come in and face 30/40 deliveries and change the course of the game with several fierce and mightly shots. That's it. And in that role there is no one lower down the order that can do that for India except Yusuf. Not Dhoni any more since he's become captain, not Yuvraj since he's struggling for form after injuries, only Pathan.

[pensionplan]

You're over exaggerating. How many number 6/7 batsmen in the world are expected to be quality batsmen? The ODI game has moved on. People like Razzak, Cameron White etc all play the same power hitter role down the order like Pathan. Who cares if they aren't quality batsmen against top bowling? They are not expected to be that. They're expected to come in and face 30/40 deliveries and change the course of the game with several fierce and mightly shots. That's it. And in that role there is no one lower down the order that can do that for India except Yusuf. Not Dhoni any more since he's become captain, not Yuvraj since he's struggling for form after injuries, only Pathan.

Even within those confines YP's peformance left a lot to be desired in the chances he got earlier. Before the recent NZ series here is how he did and how his score line looks after that 59* he scored versus SL in Feb' 2009. 0, 3, 20*, 1*, 0, 40*, 0, 1*, 1, 0, 5, 18, 36, 5, 11*, 15, 44. The above numbers are what spelt his doom in his earlier stints. While you are basing most of what you are saying based on potential and best case scenario one needs to wait and watch if his last 2 innings are not a blip on the radar but what exactly we all are hoping for. A genuine threat at No.6 or No.7 as opposed to a hit or a miss type of a player that will be in and out of the side.

[flamy]

Ya, we are talking abt Pathan after he returned for the NZ series. Sure, it is a small sample space, but there are two players fighting for the same spot in the team based on intangibles - Yuvraj on his reputation, Pathan on the hope that he has addressed his problems.

[Fontaine]

Even within those confines YP's peformance left a lot to be desired in the chances he got earlier. Before the recent NZ series here is how he did and how his score line looks after that 59* he scored versus SL in Feb' 2009. 0, 3, 20*, 1*, 0, 40*, 0, 1*, 1, 0, 5, 18, 36, 5, 11*, 15, 44. The above numbers are what spelt his doom in his earlier stints. While you are basing most of what you are saying based on potential and best case scenario one needs to wait and watch if his last 2 innings are not a blip on the radar but what exactly we all are hoping for. A genuine threat at No.6 or No.7 as opposed to a hit or a miss type of a player that will be in and out of the side.

It's absolutely true that he has been a hit and miss type player and it's only recently that's he's had a couple of really special performances so we'll have to wait and see if he's really turned the corner here. But what cannot be denied is that the guy has really mentally improved his game. Prior to this series his biggest weakeness was handling the short stuff against top pace bowling. But while the likes of Raina and others are still struggling here Pathan has at least shown that he has the mental ability to overcome that weakeness and still play his natural game. THAT is the definition of a player improving and working hard and as such he's earned more playing chances because of it.

[achilles]

It's absolutely true that he has been a hit and miss type player and it's only recently that's he's had a couple of really special performances so we'll have to wait and see if he's really turned the corner here. But what cannot be denied is that the guy has really mentally improved his game. Prior to this series his biggest weakeness was handling the short stuff against top pace bowling. But while the likes of Raina and others are still struggling here Pathan has at least shown that he has the mental ability to overcome that weakeness and still play his natural game. THAT is the definition of a player improving and working hard and as such he's earned more playing chances because of it.

Mate, of the little time that I've been following your posts, this has gotta be the best you've written. Very logical, bang on target. Keep it up.

[Fontaine]

Mate' date=' of the little time that I've been following your posts, this has gotta be the best you've written. Very logical, bang on target. Keep it up.[/quote'] Thanks, just don't ask me to comment on Sreesanth! :winky:

[akshayxyz]

He has improved and displayed in the short-return-run he has had. Much more deserving than likes of Jadeja - who had numerous chances. As for Yuvi vs Pathan - very difficult pick. I think, Yuvi can do almost every thing that YP can and is more experienced. Even if Yuvi gains back his form in next couple of matches - there is a scenario when YP should be preferred over Yuvi (for WC team). Which is: Playing at #4 - Kohli is much better than Yuvi ( based on last year's performance). And playing at #6/7,with few overs left,Raina+YP can be more brutal than Raina+Yuvi - for the reasons - left/right combo, Raina being more stable than either Yuvi/YP, and on his day YP can be more brutal than Yuvi.

[pensionplan]

These are the kinds of games I want YP to come to the party. Hope he delivers today and further cement his position in the team chasing 266 runs.

[Watson87]

and pathan's brainfart continues, what an idiotic batsman, that was a fluke innings as i have said, Virat is more consistent and way better than this fluker, pathan to be nowhere near the Indian side for World Cup, he can pick him against minnows like Bangla and Ireland though

[kabira]

Virat is class apart...Pathan can be good number 7 player, but one cannot expect him to be consistent

[ch1234]

and pathan's brainfart continues' date=' what an idiotic batsman, that was a fluke innings as i have said, Virat is more consistent and way better than this fluker, pathan to be nowhere near the Indian side for World Cup, he can pick him against minnows like Bangla and Ireland though[/quote'] You are right.. Yusuf can be in the team, but not at the expense of Kohli.. Also, against comparatvely week bowling line ups like BD, in the first match of India in WC, Yusuf should be there, may be at the expense of Yuvi or Raina..

[pensionplan]

These are the kinds of games I want YP to come to the party. Hope he delivers today and further cement his position in the team chasing 266 runs.

And he fails...Oh well.,,.As I observed a few posts above as well there is a reason why he is the part of the musical chair game our selectors play with the fringe players i.e. drop and drag as they choose to. This guy as of now just does not cut it to face quality bowling even for ODI frame work to be a considered a genuine threat on a consistent basis(Perhaps good enough for Indian conditions given the choices we have at No.7 for the WC). But for the advent of 20-20 and IPL1, I am sure no one would have heard of him perhaps.

[CSK Fan]

Watson87 and srtfan, there was nothing idiotic about today's dismissal. It was an excellent ball which could have got any top abtsman's wicket

[saneindian]

Can't expect him to take us over the line all the time. Got out to a good ball from a very good bowler whom the other have found nearly unplayable.

[pensionplan]

Watson87 and srtfan' date= there was nothing idiotic about today's dismissal. It was an excellent ball which could have got any top abtsman's wicket

LOL, I am indeed one. Coming to YP that was a good ball I give him that. But again don't get me wrong, he has to improve upon his game to be considered a serious threat at the international level from what I have seen of him through out the last 2 IPL's and other ODI games he played. To me his game is lacking while facing quick bowlers for most part and that is a deficiancy. He needs to tighten up or else his tenure will again be short lived.

[putrevus]

Has any batsmen in this series looked comfortable other than Kohli and Pathan who are willing to play their natural game. Yes Pathan got out cheaply last time but that can happen to anybody at least he didn't fall to indecisive stroke like Dhoni or raina. Most Indian batsmen look intimidated even before their begin their innings and have no chance of succeeding because mentally they have lost that edge. Guys like Raina who are camped on their back foot expecting short stuff they have forgotten the reason why they are in Indian team in first place which is their natural talent to play strokes. Even Bhajji stood up against Morkel which none of top order batsmen have looked to do which again is an indication how mentally they have lost the battle.

[ch1234]

100 by Pathan.. Serious ...

[zen]

YP