Salman Rushdie: The time has come to declare Pakistan a terrorist state

[EnterTheVoid]

I am reading a great book "Tinderbox" by MJ Akbar on Pakistan. He quotes Zia when he is asked is Pakistan an Islamic state. He replies "Ofcourse it is. What else can be the purpose of its existence ? It would only be a second rate India."

If something happens to Muslims anywhere in the world by the west, theres outrage in Pakistan even though it doesn't relate to Pakistan. But if its muslims v muslims, theres not so much as a peep. I mean, things like the the genocide in Darfur/Rwanda, Hamas v Fatah, shia v sunni etc etc ... nobody cares.

[ganeshran]

The status quo is the only thing going to happen in Kashmir with all of the parties playing for short term advantages rather than long term changes. We cannot hope for any solution when it renders 2 out of 3 involved parties (Pakistan security establishment and Hurriyat) redundant.

[asterix]

The main issue is Jealousy..Jealousy of being left behind at the dumps by a Hindu majority neighbour. You can see the jealousy in every aspect of their lives, be it cricket, IPL, Bollywood, Economics, Technology, difference in "hearts" etc.. The Hinduon ke zehniyat is a reality.. Somehow by stealing, conniving with countries like N Korea, China etc. they were able to restore the balance in Nuclear and Missile technologies..But reverse engineering and working on pre-designed blue print will help you to a certain extent..For overall growth you need a educated population striving to do well for themselves..They can't keep up in that aspect. Hence the rivaly is to "pull down India" if you are not able to compete with it..

[CSK Fan]

After Kashmir, it will be Punjab's turn. Dont think resolving Kashmir will stop anything. Will the militants give up arms and take up farming instead? The situation has long gone out of the hand of the Pak army or goverment. The militants will just look for new areas to target as thats what militants do. Even they would have lost sight of what they were created for. Its a very bleak picture but its true

[ganeshran]

Hehehe ... just Kashmir ehhh ... I have a bridge that I built to connect NooYawk and NooJoisy which I want to sell ... will give you a discount :icflove:

:hysterical::hysterical:

[Stuge]

Oh really . Kashmir is the reason behind Mumbai's attack.:hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Pakistan's main aim is the islamization of entire India. Don't believe the crap they feed to you. And btw Pakistan's indulges in terrorist activity because it is mentally incapable of development.

satyam: Please man ,I can understand such hate ,but this hate won't take us anywhere .MORE HATE MORE VIOLENCE .Its a VICIOUS CIRCLE / Cycle and not easy to break once it has started . Regarding Kashmir I''m always in support of the LOC that outsider is talking about . I don't think any other solution is viable at this juncture .

[someone]

After Kashmir' date=' it will be Punjab's turn. Dont think resolving Kashmir will stop anything. Will the militants give up arms and take up farming instead? The situation has long gone out of the hand of the Pak army or goverment. The militants will just look for new areas to target as thats what militants do. Even they would have lost sight of what they were created for. Its a very bleak picture but its true[/quote'] Yes, exactly, Kashmir was never the "problem" but merely an "opportunity" for Pakistan.

[The Outsider]

Kashmir has very deep roots. It is the only Muslim majority state in India and going by the idea on which partition happened it should have gone to Pakistan (I don't agree with the idea, though). To exacerbate the problem, India also got hold of Hyderabad and Junagadh. To further rub salt into the wounds, India was instrumental in the creation of Bangladesh. Pakistan has lost huge territory which they considered theirs before partition. Right from the inception of the two countries, it has been the flashing point and the root of all conflict. Resolution of Kashmir will not only be a political resolution but will be a change in mindset of Pakistan - taking that into context the resolution of Kashmir if and when it happens will be a new chapter in the subcontinental history. It's easy to laugh off these sensible ideas by building bridges between New Jersey and New York rather than offering substantial, fact based arguments.

[someone]

Kashmir has very deep roots. It is the only Muslim majority state in India and going by the idea on which partition happened it should have gone to Pakistan (I don't agree with the idea, though). To exacerbate the problem, India also got hold of Hyderabad and Junagadh. To further rub salt into the wounds, India was instrumental in the creation of Bangladesh. Pakistan has lost huge territory which they considered theirs before partition. Right from the inception of the two countries, it has been the flashing point and the root of all conflict. Resolution of Kashmir will not only be a political resolution but will be a change in mindset of Pakistan - taking that into context the resolution of Kashmir if and when it happens will be a new chapter in the subcontinental history. It's easy to laugh off these sensible ideas by building bridges between New Jersey and New York rather than offering substantial, fact based arguments.

WTF, you never read what others wrote. The simple logic of a Muslim majority state has to belong to Pakistan itself is the very basic problem. And more importantly, Kashmir was transformed into a Muslim majority after years of "hard" work by your own muslims.

[Lurker]

The unhealthy obsession is with Kashmir' date=' specifically. [b']As I've said repeatedly the day the Kashmir issue is resolved is the day the region can start moving away from this nonsensical violence, arms race, terrorism towards a working economic and peaceful relationship. And the only resolution of Kashmir is acknowledging and legitimizing the Line of Control as the international border by all concerned parties.

Partially correct Shwetabh. It would have been quite correct say 20 years back but not so much today. Sure Kashmir has to be resolved but the question whether its resolution would satisfy Pakistan is an open one. Personally I think the bigger reason is China. It exploits Pakistan quite well in keeping India in check. Pakistan has been quite ignorant to be the playground of US, Saudi Arabia and now China without realizing how everybody seems to have fun at Pakistani society cost in the end. China's interest goes beyond keeping India in check of course. It wants Pakistan as its gateway to Middle East thus keeping its growing oil demand in check. Can you imagine what would happen if India and Pakistan were close? Or even on business relationship? All the way from India to Middle East, via Pakistan, Afganistan, Iran etc would be a great pipeline laid on the fact that India generally has good relationship with all. India shall grow and China shall succumb. South East Asia might be part of the greatest diplomatic game right now with atleast 3 world powers (US, India, China) and perhaps 1/3rd of world's population at play.

[The Outsider]

Partially correct Shwetabh. It would have been quite correct say 20 years back but not so much today. Sure Kashmir has to be resolved but the question whether its resolution would satisfy Pakistan is an open one. Personally I think the bigger reason is China. It exploits Pakistan quite well in keeping India in check. Pakistan has been quite ignorant to be the playground of US, Saudi Arabia and now China without realizing how everybody seems to have fun at Pakistani society cost in the end. China's interest goes beyond keeping India in check of course. It wants Pakistan as its gateway to Middle East thus keeping its growing oil demand in check. Can you imagine what would happen if India and Pakistan were close? Or even on business relationship? All the way from India to Middle East, via Pakistan, Afganistan, Iran etc would be a great pipeline laid on the fact that India generally has good relationship with all. India shall grow and China shall succumb. South East Asia might be part of the greatest diplomatic game right now with atleast 3 world powers (US, India, China) and perhaps 1/3rd of world's population at play.

Lurker, whichever country it might be instigating Pakistan - China, as you rightly said lately, US till a few years back - the fact remains that there needs to be an emotive issue on the basis of which the establishment can justify their actions to the people. An Islamic Kashmir, sold with the notion that it should have been theirs and coupled with some grass root support, is the best ice cream truck to distribute the product. Take it away and even an external influence would have a tough time finding an emotive enough idea. Khalistan has been tried in the past, along with small nuisances like taking over territory in the Rann of Kutch. But I've resigned myself to the notion that I am not going to even see a working relationship between India and Pakistan in my lifetime - and there is huge growth potential if that happens as you pointed out. The average Pakistani has been so brainwashed with the Kashmir rhetoric since Zia's time and it's roots established in religion, the cornerstone of the country that it is going to take 1-2 generations to rid of the hatred even if the process starts today.

[Late Cut]

Lurker, whichever country it might be instigating Pakistan - China, as you rightly said lately, US till a few years back - the fact remains that there needs to be an emotive issue on the basis of which the establishment can justify their actions to the people. An Islamic Kashmir, sold with the notion that it should have been theirs and coupled with some grass root support, is the best ice cream truck to distribute the product. Take it away and even an external influence would have a tough time finding an emotive enough idea. Khalistan has been tried in the past, along with small nuisances like taking over territory in the Rann of Kutch. But I've resigned myself to the notion that I am not going to even see a working relationship between India and Pakistan in my lifetime - and there is huge growth potential if that happens as you pointed out. The average Pakistani has been so brainwashed with the Kashmir rhetoric since Zia's time and it's roots established in religion, the cornerstone of the country that it is going to take 1-2 generations to rid of the hatred even if the process starts today.

well said. Rushdie's statement is spot on as well. We have a lot of commonalities, but the rhteroric and vitrol spewed makes it impossible for anyone to every think or see with clarity without personal attacks and bias. Zia ul Haq had a lot to do with the radicalization of the populace. The sad part is that moderates and liberals generally dont have balls to kick the radical asses where it hurts.

[The Outsider]

^ BB, I'll refer you to Mariyam, ViruRulez, Sooda, mhr etc. - Indian Muslims - as shining examples of this Muslim warrior and medieval mentality on our forum. :D

[asterix]

No Kashmir solution unless Kashmiri Pundits get their due rights. Poor guys have been living in camps in their own country for ages..

[The Outsider]

PS : I meant the Paki Mentality. Last time I checked these posters were Bharatiya nagariks

I thought your philosophy is Muslim = Muslim irrespective where he/she lives? :hmmm:

[The Outsider]

No Kashmir solution unless Kashmiri Pundits get their due rights. Poor guys have been living in camps in their own country for ages..

Sadly, it's not going to happen and our country will have to live with this blot. Even if Kashmir stabilizes and becomes a prospering economy 20-30 years from now the descendant Kashmiri Pundit generation at that point will have no more incentive to move there than you or I.

[Silva]

Christopher Hitchens hit the nail on the head 3 years ago, http://www.slate.com/id/2200134

The very name Pakistan inscribes the nature of the problem. It is not a real country or nation but an acronym devised in the 1930s by a Muslim propagandist for partition named Chaudhary Rahmat Ali. It stands for Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, and Indus-Sind. The stan suffix merely means "land." In the Urdu language, the resulting acronym means "land of the pure." It can be easily seen that this very name expresses expansionist tendencies and also conceals discriminatory ones. Kashmir, for example, is part of India. The Afghans are Muslim but not part of Pakistan. Most of Punjab is also in India. Interestingly, too, there is no B in this cobbled-together name, despite the fact that the country originally included the eastern part of Bengal (now Bangladesh, after fighting a war of independence against genocidal Pakistani repression) and still includes Baluchistan, a restive and neglected province that has been fighting a low-level secessionist struggle for decades. The P comes first only because Pakistan is essentially the property of the Punjabi military caste (which hated Benazir Bhutto, for example, because she came from Sind). As I once wrote, the country's name "might as easily be rendered as 'Akpistan' or 'Kapistan,' depending on whether the battle to take over Afghanistan or Kashmir is to the fore."

[Lurker]

An Islamic Kashmir, sold with the notion that it should have been theirs and coupled with some grass root support, is the best ice cream truck to distribute the product. Take it away and even an external influence would have a tough time finding an emotive enough idea. Khalistan has been tried in the past, along with small nuisances like taking over territory in the Rann of Kutch.

I have a fundamental difference with that approach. To me Kashmir should be decided by Kashmiris without any interference from anyone. This has historically never happened with Pakistan trying to use force, or instigate disillusioned folks. I am all for Tunisia/Egypt style protests where if overwhelming populace comes out against India its time for us to leave. Simple. Most sane Indians, not including bhagwa brigade, would be sympathetic towards people doing peaceful protest.

But I've resigned myself to the notion that I am not going to even see a working relationship between India and Pakistan in my lifetime - and there is huge growth potential if that happens as you pointed out. The average Pakistani has been so brainwashed with the Kashmir rhetoric since Zia's time and it's roots established in religion, the cornerstone of the country that it is going to take 1-2 generations to rid of the hatred even if the process starts today.

I am quite optimistic still, perhaps because I am not so much online these days and thus am spared of the hatred spewed (from both sides), but it does become increasingly difficult task to do every year. I can still recall feeling a support for Pakistan in 87 and 92 (more so after it was clear India wouldn't make it), but can you imagine an average Indian supporting Pakistan these days in WC? Probably not. That's probably as good an indicator as any. xxx

[Iconoclast]

The unhealthy obsession is with Kashmir, specifically. As I've said repeatedly the day the Kashmir issue is resolved is the day the region can start moving away from this nonsensical violence, arms race, terrorism towards a working economic and peaceful relationship. And the only resolution of Kashmir is acknowledging and legitimizing the Line of Control as the international border by all concerned parties.

But why would politicians/generals on either side of the border want to resolve Kashmir ? They gain support and viability by creating fear and hatred for each other over Kashmir .. and 1.5 billion idiots just swallow it up. As for declaring Pakistan a terrorist state .. Rushdie's Western friends kill 1000 times as many people as Pak based terrorists. Even as a fellow atheist I still consider Salman a dog.

[seedhi]

Resolving Kashmir WILL NOT end the pakistan problem. Ending pakistan WILL resolve Kashmir.