Javier Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Realistically speaking the day is not far when not only Kashmir but the whole state of Jammu and Kashmir gets dismembered from the Indian Union . The Entire Kashmir has been taken over by Muslims and it looks more like a part of some Arab Country , there is hardly any track of Hindu Civilization /Hindu Culture in Kashmir similar to what ancient Afghanistan/Pakistan have gone through . The most worrying factor that has emerged in the recent years is the pace at which demographies are changing in Hindu-Majority Jammu , 15 years ago there were hardly any Muslim dominated places in Jammu whereas now one can see Burkha Clad women and Men in skullcaps everywhere around with offcourse there typical small family of 7 Children ( Minimum) , mosques are being erected at every corner of the city which is being divided into " Hindus ka Area " and "Muslims ka Area" . Its only a matter of time before Muslims make up a strong majority in Jammu , use there huge advantage of Numbers to make things go there way and wait for another Gandhi to emerge from the Sonia-Rajiv clan to gift over the entire state under the excuse of peace resulting in the repeat of another 1947 . Under that case the Non-Muslims from J & k will have to migrate to other Indian stated leaving back all there property and roots just like Hindi Sindhis , Punjabis and Sikhs did in 1947 . Then we will have another Muslim country like Pakistan up our **** waging a holy war against Kafir India to avenge for killings in Gujrat , Mumbai or wherever communal killings get repeated in the future , the cycle will go on till the end of this world and at the same time we will have 300 Million plus ( Only) so called brothers/sisters still living in India . Basically the people in the subcontinent from the ancient times were a weak lot otherwise it was not possible to be ruled over by Jihad Waging Islamic warriors from bordering Islamic sultanates , the slavery and weakness is so deeply ingrained in our blood that its just not possible to spot the enemy and root of the problem . None of those Islamic warriors were able to make any impact on the Land of the chinese right from ancient times whereas Bharat was captured with ease which gives the perfect account regarding the difference between the Strong Chinese and Weak Hindus .
saneindian Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Before doing anything, let other Indians be given the right to settle in Kashmir like what has happened in the POK. Also, its the time Indian media started highlighting the issues faced by people in POK (Northern Areas have been carved out of POK and made an independent territory, people don't have a right to vote, POK produces 60-70% of Pak's electricity but does not get even 5% of the nation's spendings). Also highlight the Balochistan struggle, number of people killed, missing and how the army has completely taken over the province. We have done enough of appeasement in the hope that things will calm down. Will not happenand unless we tackled the issue head on, we will continue to bleed our resources and energy.
ganeshran Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Guys lets not go into the past and who was responsible for creation of this state for Kashmir, because we obviously arent going to agree on it. Lets look at the future. what should we do about Kashmir now?
achilles Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Also' date=' its the time Indian media started highlighting the issues faced by people in POK (Northern Areas have been carved out of POK and made an independent territory, people don't have a right to vote, POK produces 60-70% of Pak's electricity but does not get even 5% of the nation's spendings). Also highlight the Balochistan struggle, number of people killed, missing and how the army has completely taken over the province.[/quote'] Compare this to India. The kind of money the central government pumps in is humongous. We value Kashmir, we love Kashmiris and we are ensuring development, under the able hands of the current CM. Insurgency is down by 75% since he's taken over and the army takes care of the state as if it were Area 51. Since our friends from Pakistan love asking us in the media about Kashmir, why not enquire about the well-being of "our people" from PoK? Why not highlight their sufferings and speak like their leaders... "PoK is an issue which must be discussed by both parties" and see what they say? It should promote some serious introspection, I say.
Sachin=GOD Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Dialogue is the only way forward IMHO. If either India or Pakistan thinks that this issue can be solved by using only force then they are living in delusion.
achilles Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Guys lets not go into the past and who was responsible for creation of this state for Kashmir, because we obviously arent going to agree on it. Lets look at the future. what should we do about Kashmir now? We know what to do about it, don't we Ganeshran. It is our neighbours who need to smell the coffee.
triam Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Asim Are you saying "Aksai Chin" issue where Pakistan gave it away to China and the Karakoram tract iwhere the same exact thing happened, never happened?
cricfan001 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Guys lets not go into the past and who was responsible for creation of this state for Kashmir, because we obviously arent going to agree on it. Lets look at the future. what should we do about Kashmir now? @ganeshran... I have already explained how peace can be initiated and how Pakistan needs a drastic change in its current policy. Also explained the state of Kashmir before the terrorism took its nasty turn during Zia's tenure. If you have not read enough of the above then it is fine. But at least, read a fine article from Dawn, which nicely summarizes on what is happening in Pakistan. Make no mistake, if you do not eradicate the problem from grass-roots in Pakistan, it will reappear again and again. So, in this regard it solely rests with Pakistan on how it wants to progress both internally and externally and whether it is serious to have peace with India. Lastly, Peace like any other initiative is a two-way process, so whatever we are offering to Pakistan, it has to reciprocate the same thing. If we forget this then history will repeat itself. After reading the below article you will clearly understand how the deadly consequences of extremist ideology have taken a toll on Pakistan and how it threatens everyone including its people and outsiders as well. http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/29/smokers-corner-wrinkles-in-youth.html
Guest Gunner Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 "Agar kuht-ul- riajl uftad, azeshan uns kam geeri Eke Afghan, doum Kumboh, seum badzat Kashmiri" Should Fate decree a dearth of men Then friend of mine, beware ye Of Afghan, Kumbo scoundrel too But worst of all, do thou eschew That illbred knave Kashmiri That more or less sums up my view on kashmiris.
jonas10 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Asim Are you saying "Aksai Chin" issue where Pakistan gave it away to China and the Karakoram tract iwhere the same exact thing happened, never happened? Lol dont waste your breath the kid is clearly clueless on history.
jonas10 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 1. As for as your point of handing over any part of Pakistani Kashmir to China is concerned' date=' it will be a breaking-news for almsot all of people even in this thread, it was absolutly[b'] false Propaganda of Indian media and nothing else, chapter close... (or give me any non-indian authenticated source for this information) 2. Give me 2 figures, till date... how many muslim been killed by chinese forces, ii). How many muslims been killed by indian forces in Kashmir? Okay ill play along. On Point 1 God just read wikipedia or any other historical book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan-administered_Kashmir "A part of this area of the former princely state of Kashmir, the trans-Karakoram tract was ceded to China and the remaining area was amalgamated into two regions: Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan." "In the 1950s Pakistan became concerned that Chinese maps showed areas of Pakistan in China. In 1961 Ayub Khan sent a formal Note to China, and a year later China proposed a provisional agreement, subject to final resolution of the Kashmir dispute. Negotiations resulted in an agreement signed on 2 March 1963. The agreement resulted in China withdrawing from about 750 sq m of territory, and Pakistan abandoning its claim to about 2,050 sq m of territory (which it had not in fact occupied or administered)." LOL you gave that land to daddy. Now you are begging daddy to colonize you and put a naval base and your country. :hysterical: Arnt you the same guys crying that America violated your country's soverignty? :cantstop: On point 2 there are literally hundreds of articles just do a google search. Here's a few http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/0713/unrest-in-xinjiang-wheres-the-muslim-outrage http://www.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2009-07-07-voa79-68804577.html http://heshamsyed.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/atrocities-geonocides-muslims-in-china/ Literally thousands more - let me know if you need help operating google. :--D
daryl1985 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Asim, what I meant was, when muslim majority nations acquired independence or when underwent islamic revolution, the minority population in various countries that I mentioned such as Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran was relatively healthy compared to the current state. Do you think, if minorities were given equal rights and safety, will their population dwindle to the way it is currently? Would majority of the minorities run away from those countries abandoning their business, life style etc., for seeking asylum in other countries? My friend, you can be honest to yourself and not to me on this.... You can go through any statistics, I can guarantee you apart from a handful of muslim majority nations like Turkey, Malaysia etc., not many provide safe haven along with equal rights/respect for minorities. Anyway, I have analysed enough and you can have your own views about this. But, I'm pretty much clear on what consequences we are facing and will face, when interference in the internal matters of India is done by nations like Pakistan through the garb of this "ummah" concept in Kashmir. This is a blatant sponsoring of terrorism in Kashmir in the name of religion on Pakistan's part. You talk of your muslim brethren and stuff, then what has happened to your ever concerning people of Pakistan, when Chinese army slaughtered Uyghur muslims in Xinjiang region in China? You kept quiet and I accept that because that is the internal affair of China. But, then why come so much interference in Indian part of Kashmir in the name of "religion"? Why these double standards and hypocrisy? I stand my ground that only a country based on secularism,liberalism and democratic setup with equal rights, respect and justice for all people irrespective of their affiliations would provide a stable country that promotes peace and friendship within it's own country and also towards its neighbour... Bottom line for my argument ... True secularism and liberalism with obvious restrictions accompanied by democratic set of government is the only hope for majority of the muslim countries worldwide to overcome from the current chaotic state they are in... Christians suffer persecution in Turkey. Apart from that, top post.
Asim Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Okay ill play along. On Point 1 God just read wikipedia or any other historical book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan-administered_Kashmir "A part of this area of the former princely state of Kashmir, the trans-Karakoram tract was ceded to China and the remaining area was amalgamated into two regions: Azad Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan." "In the 1950s Pakistan became concerned that Chinese maps showed areas of Pakistan in China. In 1961 Ayub Khan sent a formal Note to China, and a year later China proposed a provisional agreement, subject to final resolution of the Kashmir dispute. Negotiations resulted in an agreement signed on 2 March 1963. The agreement resulted in China withdrawing from about 750 sq m of territory, and Pakistan abandoning its claim to about 2,050 sq m of territory (which it had not in fact occupied or administered)." LOL you gave that land to daddy. Now you are begging daddy to colonize you and put a naval base and your country. :hysterical: Arnt you the same guys crying that America violated your country's soverignty? :cantstop: On point 2 there are literally hundreds of articles just do a google search. Here's a few http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/0713/unrest-in-xinjiang-wheres-the-muslim-outrage http://www.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2009-07-07-voa79-68804577.html http://heshamsyed.wordpress.com/2009/07/14/atrocities-geonocides-muslims-in-china/ Literally thousands more - let me know if you need help operating google. :--D Lol, is that really your reply to my post? Putting heading of "title 1" and "title 2" is not enough. 1. I asked you to provide any non-indian AND "authenticated source" with the news that Pakistan have handed over PoK to china... you FAILED... 2. Yeah suppose I dont know what is Google etc. Please give me 2 figures I asked, as simple as that...
ganeshran Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Lol, is that really your reply to my post? Putting heading of "title 1" and "title 2" is not enough. 1. I asked you to provide any non-indian AND "authenticated source" with the news that Pakistan have handed over PoK to china... you FAILED... 2. Yeah suppose I dont know what is Google etc. Please give me 2 figures I asked, as simple as that... The ceded area is the Trans Karokaram tract. It was a part of baltistan in PoK, but also claimed by China. In the 1963 agreement, Pakistan gave up control of this area to China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Karakoram_Tract
jonas10 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Lol, is that really your reply to my post? Putting heading of "title 1" and "title 2" is not enough. 1. I asked you to provide any non-indian AND "authenticated source" with the news that Pakistan have handed over PoK to china... you FAILED... 2. Yeah suppose I dont know what is Google etc. Please give me 2 figures I asked, as simple as that... I failed? Oh let me guess Wikipedia is a zionist/hindoo/christian axis against Pakistan. Go look at the link genius - it clearly notes how the Pak slaves gave their yellow masters over 2000KM of land. On the second point I dont have any figures on Chinese massacres of Muslims. The articles i have sent you noted several hundreds on somedays. In the last 50 years a once 90% muslim state is now 50% Han Chinese. China is not the most transparent country - at least read the articles I sent you (all non-indian) since you have no clue on how the Chinese are cleansing Muslims similar to the Tibetians. Btw what is the "magic number" of Muslims that needs to be killed in China to give you Pakistanis anger about the killings of Muslims? You want India to China "Muslim killing" numbers? I admit I have no idea but you Paks seems so mad that India apparently kills Muslims and couldn't care less about Chinese atrocities. Why is that? Is there a magic number that provides outrage???? Pakistan is an indentured servant of country of China they are even begging them to make a naval base there to protect them from the Indian boogy man and these are the same people that are ethnically cleansing muslims.
jonas10 Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 The ceded area is the Trans Karokaram tract. It was a part of baltistan in PoK, but also claimed by China. In the 1963 agreement, Pakistan gave up control of this area to China. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Karakoram_Tract LOL nice try bro - Asim thinks Wikipedia is "an indian source" YOU FAILED :hysterical: Pakistanis living in Pakistan are totally disillusion Chinese hate them and are totally using them. Come to a country like Canada the irony is that most Pakistanis here try and associate with second generation Indians - Chinese have nothing to do with them here.
ganeshran Posted May 29, 2011 Posted May 29, 2011 Cool down Jonas bro, the more the debate gets personal, the less it gets effective. I think we can put forth our point in much nicer language as well.
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