Asim Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 @BossBhai You think Islam and Muslims are intolerant but look here, I didn’t spoke even a single negative word for your or any other religion, whatever I talked is precisely about my own religion but you straight away making fun of Islam and calling Quranic verse a lie, moreover you don’t even think you owe an apology... Now how you or anybody else would like to justify this?
Sachinism Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 @BossBhai You think Islam and Muslims are intolerant but look here, I didn’t spoke even a single negative word for your or any other religion, whatever I talked is precisely about my own religion but you straight away making fun of Islam and calling Quranic verse a lie, moreover you don’t even think you owe an apology... Now how you or anybody else would like to justify this? asim don't give them any attention. Guys keep on topic.
achilles Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I moved on from this thread long back. Denial from other side and lack of answers to straight questions played a major role.
zen Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 My preferred solution: I will keep it to myself for now Practical solution: LoC turned into an international border To points such as ask Kashmiri people ----> Let's not forget that 1000s of Kashmiri pundits have been systematically killed or driven out of Kashmir (many living in camps), so this solution gets thrown out of the window. If Kashmiri people had to decides (like what many Pakis think) then terrorism and crime against non-muslim should never have been promoted in the first place. On one hand, you drive a section of population out and on the other hand, you want the remaining ones to give their opinion on what should happen to Kashmir! Ladak should be turned into another state or union territory. There is no point in India keeping it a part of J&K. May be even Jammu should be seperated.
ganeshran Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 BossBhai, I never said that the Kashmir issue isnt connected to religion. I simply said that debating the merits/demerits of Islam will not lead us to a solution of the kashmir issue - the point which was being discussed here.
ganeshran Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 Can you show me one single post in this thread where you put your finger squarely on the root cause of this problem ? And yes if you look at the history of this ideology you will understand why this nonsense isn't going away in our lifetimes. The religious difference is one of the causes of this problem, albeit a major one. People's disaffection with the state is another one due to human rights abuses by our troops there. Pakistan's constant active support to militia groups to alter the demographic of the state is another one. The constant fanning of tensions by the separatists is one more reasons Regardless of the reasons behind Kashmir, the only way we need to look is forward. I agree that a chances for a solution to the Kashmir issue does look bleak now. But its not an unsolvable problem. We need to create solid job opportunities, provide foolproof security without harm to civilians, deal with troublemakers firmly.
Asim Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 (@BossBhai: Not interested to comment/reply you unless you are not willing to make an apology/take your comment back about that Quranic verse... You can talk/discuss everything you observed in Muslims but can't directly target Islam and its teaching or any other religion this way)
Asim Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 ^ My ask still the same... You might have 100s of arguments but really cant move on and can't listen anything when you are taking a start by literally abusing my religious, its some of worst & most ignorant behavior I am facing at ICF...
Guest Gunner Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I see that the festivities have now concluded. This is my view,if not forthe fact that it weakens India's defensive capabilities I would have gotten rid of kashmir long ago.It is not worth shedding blood for a single kashmiri. Let the pakiz have them and enjoy them sucking their blood out.
gs Posted June 7, 2011 Posted June 7, 2011 I see that the festivities have now concluded. This is my view' date='if not forthe fact that it weakens India's defensive capabilities I would have gotten rid of kashmir long ago.It is not worth shedding blood for a single kashmiri. Let the pakiz have them and enjoy them sucking their blood out.[/quote'] Absolutely my view too! :two_thumbs_up:
Asim Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 what is factual cannot be construed as abuse. Goodluck "debating" with others. I'am sure there are many here that will bend over and pretend that everything is hunky-dory with your religion. You are unable to answer what is happening in today's date in front of me and you, then no point discussing the distorted text you read (the only text which supports your mindset) and the text I read about the things happened hundreds of years ago... If you are saying only in last one decade in USA alone 35000 converts to Islam, happened BY FORCE, hoho people are converting to Islam in USA, Europe, India and all over the word TODAY... BY FORCE... sorry but your arguments can’t go more funny, biased and ignorant...
ravishingravi Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 what is factual cannot be construed as abuse. Goodluck "debating" with others. I'am sure there are many here that will bend over and pretend that everything is hunky-dory with your religion. No everything is not hunky dory about Islam or any other religion. But if you are going to link th Kashmir "dispute" only to the barbarism of Islam and muslims discarding the creation of Kashmir, UN resolution, Pakistan and India's policies on Kashmir. I dont deny that there is an element of Sharia imposition in Kashmir as an agenda for seperatist group. Lets get back to the original question. What would you do with Kashmir ? I can't recall your take on this question. You know me BB. I am hardly what you would call a pseudo secularist. But Kashmir has more dimensions and Asim need not to be personally attacked. ( sorry this required an edit )
Asim Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 what has how many people converting in USA today got anything to do with how peacefull/violent the ideology is and was from day one ? Do you really think people that are converting will go and read all the historical documents and scrutinize everything before signing up ? I mean here you are trying to tell me how good and hunky dory your religion is while you have absolutely no idea about the things that I asked you and yet you want people to respect your beliefs ? Aint happening. And as far as the fastest growing BS is concerned you have no idea how brutal your religion is for those who want to exit. Feel free to explain this : http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/811/apostasy It will be interesting to see how that fits in your scheme of things. Yes it has everything to do with your thoughts because your version says since start Islam only expanded by force... if it is true, why and how on earth it is possible TODAY that Islam is still the fastest growing religion... You are continuously failing to prove that today… yes TODAY in front of you and me… how it is happening by force in USA, Europe and India? You are expert of Gooogle and making references, just give me all the sources and tell me How many of 35000 converts from USA alone in last decade converted by force... I will accept your all points if you prove those 35000 were converted by force... otherwise stop yelling about the things which you discovered from distorted texts of your mindset compatibility...
jonas10 Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 You are unable to answer what is happening in today's date in front of me and you, then no point discussing the distorted text you read (the only text which supports your mindset) and the text I read about the things happened hundreds of years ago... If you are saying only in last one decade in USA alone 35000 converts to Islam, happened BY FORCE, hoho people are converting to Islam in USA, Europe, India and all over the word TODAY... BY FORCE... sorry but your arguments can’t go more funny, biased and ignorant... USA does not equal Pakistan. Never forget all you Pakistanis were once upon a time Hindus...converted by force to follow an Arab religion. This is history speaking.
ganeshran Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 Right and the reason why you never bothered to mention that until I stepped in forced the issue is ... ? . Because its not something that can be changed. Any attempt to change the demographic now would lead to further tensions. My view is that no plebiscite is valid until the Pandits are returned to their original homes. Religion is not a black and white issue. People have used religion as a garb to further their own geopolitical interests since time immemorial. Our rivalry is not with Islam or atheism, its with Pakistan and China. Its another fact that Pakistan used religion to further their cause in the Kashmir valley, but it doesnt make Islam bad, it just shows how religion can be twisted to serve selfish interests. And when you make accusations of apologetics and pseudo secularism against everyone who doesnt see Islam in the same light as you do, it would inevitably lead to accusations of bigotry and deep rooted religious hatred against you.
ravishingravi Posted June 8, 2011 Author Posted June 8, 2011 I would go the Israeli route. If you look up history and go thru all conflicts between Muslims and Non-Muslims worldwide you will understand why there is really no other option. I'am sorry but saying things like : " Slaughter of Pandits as painful as it might have been we have to move forward" is pretty much a gutless if not utterly pseudo secular thought process" And there is no personal attack. Don't expect me to regurgitate PC statements like you and most others. Did anybody here say that BB ?
ganeshran Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 BossBhai, I am not condoning any violent acts that some followers of Islam have done by using and perverting the name of their religion. Every religion has sanctioned violence in its religious texts - Hindus have the wars in the Geeta, Sikh Gurus fought wars, Christians had their crusades and Muslims the Jihad. All through the dark and Middle ages - there was more violence in the name of religion than anything else. Even in the Modern age, Islam's sanction for violent jihad has been misused more than any other religion. But everywhere you see violence in the name of Islam, you will see multiple factors and vested interests to promote that violence. What I am saying is that we cannot blame a religion or all of its 2 billion followers for the actions of a minority of its adherents, no matter how significant that minority may be. For me an individual should be judged by his own actions and nothing else. There is no guilt by association which makes an individual guilty by merely following an ideology or being a citizen of a nation which has used terrorism for strategic objectives.
King Tendulkar Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 What I am saying is that we cannot blame a religion or all of its 2 billion followers for the actions of a minority of its adherents, no matter how significant that minority may be. For me an individual should be judged by his own actions and nothing else. There is no guilt by association which makes an individual guilty by merely following an ideology or being a citizen of a nation which has used terrorism for strategic objectives. The followers on the whole support the actions , even if they do not actually commit them.
Sir john Posted June 8, 2011 Posted June 8, 2011 did anyone know how many Indian soldiers lost there life in j and k? balidan vayarth nahi jaayega
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