Sachinism Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Dont know why, I keep on Reading posts on this thread , Again and again, Repetiotion of same points..... Makes me feel why do i even bother to read some posts..... There are just key pad Ninjas with twisted egoistic brain that keeps telling them that they can not loose an argumenet. Sorry, they must not loose an argument..... Just because they dont feel they lost a argument doesnt mean that the havent.... Sod off . Get a life.... That's the beauty of online debates. Nobody changes the views of the opposition and we still keep at it. I posted a thread about this before, will need to look it up, many people could benefit from reading it
mishra Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 That's the beauty of online debates. Nobody changes the views of the opposition and we still keep at it. I posted a thread about this before, will need to look it up, many people could benefit from reading it Agree.. Too many smart ars-es, apparently with smart views. But actually all of it is shy-te , simply shy-te
Mariyam Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I admire your patience that you must have explained this 100th time' date=' every other day we see stats expert with 4th innings/chasing/pressure/... numbers and does not understand this basic stuff.[/quote'] +1 :hatsoff: MTC. Was just going through the last few pages. I admire your patience. Its admiration to the point of being jealous. And I also like how you've made your point re: averages, the team winning, and fourth innings batting. Even a total test cricket (and maths) duffer like me could follow it pretty well. :hatsoff:
Sachinism Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 That's the beauty of online debates. Nobody changes the views of the opposition and we still keep at it. I posted a thread about this before, will need to look it up, many people could benefit from reading it Here's the thread: http://indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?t=267276 - The backfire effect
ganeshran Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 if you are going to pick up things i never said i cant help you...see the bold parts in your comment and tell me when did i write that sachin that sachin has performed only when india has lost.... i said he has performed better in matches india has lost and what i meant was every player cant play well in all the innings but when one does one must go on and make sure the team wins.... This is what you said. i was saying in 3rd and 4th innings of matches we lost tendulkar has a much better average and lachuu has a pathetic avg I pointed out that Sachin has an average of 32 in matches we lost whereas VVS has an average of 28. I dont see the much better average in lost matches that you are claiming. :dontknow: next bold part... laxman average is bolstered by his not outs true enough but that shows he took india to a win by staying at the crease and ensuring india wins which sachin has not been able to do cause he got out... my point.... just arguing with your points without actually looking at what i am saying makes this argument baseless and i am fed up answering you cause basically each time you quote me you write something i never said... huh Comprehension :fail: I meant the average being embellished in drawn matches. Laxman has a higher average in drawn matches than SRT. And it is this average that has been boosted by notouts.9/14 to 7/22.
pensionplan Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I meant the average being embellished in drawn matches. Laxman has a higher average in drawn matches than SRT. And it is this average that has been boosted by notouts.9/14 to 7/22.Yeah the SRT fantics have a crystal ball as to those not outs if they played out would not have turned into more runs thus keeping the average intact. Anything to prop up Tendulkar but to put down anyone else that are as good.
Vijay.Sharma Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 How do the numbers look in Won matches if we take BD out a proven minnow out of the mix?How do the numbers look for Gary Sobers if we remove India, NZ, and Pakistan that were proven minnows? How do the numbers look for Hutton, and Hammond if we remove South Africa, West Indies, New Zealand, India, and Pakistan that were proven minnows? How do numbers look for Ponting, Kallis, Dravid, Laxman, Lara Inzi if we remove Bangladesh that were proven minnows? How do numbers look for Gavaskar if we remove Sri Lanka that were proven minnows? How do numbers look for Greg Chappell if we remove India in Australia, and Sri Lanka that were proven minnows?
ganeshran Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Yeah the SRT fantics have a crystal ball as to those not outs if they played out would not have turned into more runs thus keeping the average intact. Anything to prop up Tendulkar but to put down anyone else that are as good. ok
CSK Fan Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 I admire your patience that you must have explained this 100th time' date=' every other day we see stats expert with 4th innings/chasing/pressure/... numbers and does not understand this basic stuff.[/quote'] What can I say, I had loads of free time the last couple of days. Plus am a 'Srtfanatic' till I die
CSK Fan Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 How do the numbers look for Gary Sobers if we remove India, NZ, and Pakistan that were proven minnows? How do the numbers look for Hutton, and Hammond if we remove South Africa, West Indies, New Zealand, India, and Pakistan that were proven minnows? How do numbers look for Ponting, Kallis, Dravid, Laxman, Lara Inzi if we remove Bangladesh that were proven minnows? How do numbers look for Gavaskar if we remove Sri Lanka that were proven minnows? How do numbers look for Greg Chappell if we remove India in Australia, and Sri Lanka that were proven minnows? Plus the Zimbabwe of Sachin's time with players like Heath Streak, the Flower brothers, were as good as or, better than the NZ and WI of today. Yet for Ponting, Dravid, runs scored agaisnt these countries are considered
Vijay.Sharma Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Yes. By the way you still you cannot explain why Tendulkar is in a group of players like Sanga, Lady Jaya, Samara et al in the 50 average club if you consider him to be the greatest ever. And by the way how come the greatest ever does not even have 80 FC centuries in comparision to Vv who has almost 115 of them. Some greatest ever that. :-)I think many people have already explained it. You just don't want to understand it. Anyway it dunn matter at the end of the day how much we argue coz cricket is there to be watched and fought about anyway :--D
carnish Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 First point, most of the time India has won is because of first innings performance. But you ignore this completely when you give more improtance to 4th innings. Sachin has not performed better when India lost, thats again a falsehood you keep on repating. His average has come down. You are talking about the handful of matches when we won by chasing and ignoring the scores when we won by setting a huge target. How is the former more important than the later, particularly when the later sample is small? Second point, you dont seem to have the common sense to realise a batsman coming at no 5-6 will have MORE CHANCES to remain not out and take team to victories than a no 4 Finally one question, would you prefer a batsman who scores consitnantly, sets up hige scores which cause the team victories or the batsman, who scores when we are occasionaly in the need to chase whcih happens very rare? Well we are lucky we have both in the team though! Never lose sight of the big picture. We became number one by winningh lots of matches. And out of them, we had very few when we had to chase to win. So if you think only chases are important, you are ignoring so many matches where we won by setting huge totals. All the points you pointed out are just because you came late into a discussion between me and ganesharan... all these points had been discussed and i cant repeat the same again... just check mine and his posts and you will realize what we were arguing about... i accept all things and i had never said sachin has not helped india win all i was arguing was that he didnot perform in 2nd innings and this is what happens when you just read some posts in a big thread and jump in among a discussion among two other people...:facepalm::facepalm:
pensionplan Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 All the points you pointed out are just because you came late into a discussion between me and ganesharan... all these points had been discussed and i cant repeat the same again... just check mine and his posts and you will realize what we were arguing about... i accept all things and i had never said sachin has not helped india win all i was arguing was that he didnot perform in 2nd innings and this is what happens when you just read some posts in a big thread and jump in among a discussion among two other people...:facepalm::facepalm:Yep you did a good job making your points on this thread.
carnish Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 This is what you said. I pointed out that Sachin has an average of 32 in matches we lost whereas VVS has an average of 28. I dont see the much better average in lost matches that you are claiming. :dontknow: Comprehension :fail: I meant the average being embellished in drawn matches. Laxman has a higher average in drawn matches than SRT. And it is this average that has been boosted by notouts.9/14 to 7/22. check out the averages of 3rd and 4th innings individually for both sachin and lachuu...you will get what i was saying and u can check the links i provided or check in cricinfo... if you find something other than what i found do share...i will be glad
CSK Fan Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 All the points you pointed out are just because you came late into a discussion between me and ganesharan... all these points had been discussed and i cant repeat the same again... just check mine and his posts and you will realize what we were arguing about... i accept all things and i had never said sachin has not helped india win all i was arguing was that he didnot perform in 2nd innings and this is what happens when you just read some posts in a big thread and jump in among a discussion among two other people...:facepalm::facepalm: Just becasue performed less than Laxman in second innigns does not mean he had not performed at all in the second innigns right? Plus you were clealry using Laxman's second innings example to somehow prove he is more valuable than Sachin overall
carnish Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 srtfanatic that sucks? see i am a big fan of SRT... but i like laxman and Dravid better... can't help it... maybe i like Ganguly the ODI player better too but i cant say it here as i will be crushed... :winky: and no i dont think srt fans suck its just that all people want to prove their point right and all facts are forgotten in the claim of their being right... its not just for srt fans but for any human being... thats the way most of us are
ganeshran Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 check out the averages of 3rd and 4th innings individually for both sachin and lachuu...you will get what i was saying and u can check the links i provided or check in cricinfo... if you find something other than what i found do share...i will be glad You posted this i was saying in 3rd and 4th innings of matches we lost tendulkar has a much better average and lachuu has a pathetic avg This is the stats link in your post which shows an average of 23. http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=4;orderby=start;result=2;template=results;type=batting;view=innings
carnish Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 Just becasue performed less than Laxman in second innigns does not mean he had not performed at all in the second innigns right? Plus you were clealry using Laxman's second innings example to somehow prove he is more valuable than Sachin overall That was because i had said that i liked laxman better than sachin cause he has performed better in 2nd innings and helped india win and save certain games unlike sachin who has done the same in less number of games.... to which ganesharan charged me of being an anti-srt guy and started saying that sachin has done this that and all... to which i had never denied but the fact that from the very first post in my thread i had only talked about the 2nd innings for india and performance in that so i sticked to it cause i know sachin is much better in the first and you will see me saying that in numerous of my posts... Problem is this discussion has lasted so long cause ganesharan has completely misunderstood all my posts and therefore has b\lamed me of saying things i never did and hence i am here having to explain him what i meant...if it isnt clear to you even now i request you to please read my and his earlier posts and if you have a little intelligence you will certainly get my point
ganeshran Posted November 20, 2011 Posted November 20, 2011 That was because i had said that i liked laxman better than sachin cause he has performed better in 2nd innings and helped india win and save certain games unlike sachin who has done the same in less number of games.... to which ganesharan charged me of being an anti-srt guy and started saying that sachin has done this that and all... to which i had never denied but the fact that from the very first post in my thread i had only talked about the 2nd innings for india and performance in that so i sticked to it cause i know sachin is much better in the first and you will see me saying that in numerous of my posts... Problem is this discussion has lasted so long cause ganesharan has completely misunderstood all my posts and therefore has blamed me of saying things i never did and hence i am here having to explain him what i meant...if it isnt clear to you even now i request you to please read my and his earlier posts and if you have a little intelligence you will certainly get my point Evidence? You said Sachin has performed much better in matches that India lost. I am still waiting for the proof for it.
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