EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 If the cruelty doesn't evoke any emotion -- anger, sadness or otherwise, you've got to be one cold, heartless bastard.
anotherhawkeye Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 To ganesh and couple of others who said eating a cow is the same as eating part of a plant : Men share the same genes and DNA with a cow or sheep. We are all animals. Eating a cow is the same as eating a cat or your own kind. If you guys are ready to eat human meat more powder to you. If not, then tell me why its okay for your neighbor to eat your cow, but not you ? You got the same internals, a liver and brain and a thigh. You will probably taste the same too. Understood the plant has life too. But being vegetarian does least amount of harm to other living beings. In this day and age, eating meat is an option that you choose for your own pleasure. It's not required for your survival like your ancestors once needed it.
The Outsider Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Good question. Probably depends on how they measure the weight of the meat. Could be that the weight of the bone/fat is included. For eg, if you go to a butcher and ask for 3 kgs of Mutton, he initially weighs 3 kgs and after all the chopping and subsequent cleaning it might come down to only 2.3 kgs. Also, is 0.4kgs of meat really that much? How much on an average does an adult male who weigh 75 kgs eat every day? Or an adult female weighing 50kgs eat every day? I have no idea. But this number doesn't sound unbelievably high. Remember the "Merchant of Venice". Shylock asks Antonio for a pound of flesh. :P Maybe its not that big an amount after all. I think around 0.2-0.25 kg ie. roughly 6-9 ounces is the recommended consumption for meat, eggs, nuts, beans. So, that means the consumption is at least twice as much as recommended probably more since some percentage of the population is vegetarian or don't eat meat with every meal, specially in the US.
akshayxyz Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 Anyone seen Food, Inc.? Farmers feed cows corn so they produce more milk, but the cows can't digest the corn, so they cut a hole in the side of the cow and take the corn out of the stomach with their hands. Who's gonna stop using dairy products? Don't know how common this is, but it happens It is a very good point - especially for those vegetarians who become veg assuming that it will not result in torturing animals. Increasing demand for dairy products, (or say eggs) will result in some animal abuse somewhere in the food chain. Cattle are injected with various medicines/steroids to increase the milk produce, calves are deprived of the milk, no guarantee about living conditions of dairy cattle. And to top it all - most of the medicines that you can safely consume today - are tested for years on poor guinea-pigs - much more torturous than killing them for food. There can be many more examples of the various products of your daily use ( shampoos, soaps - various cosmetics ...) So - vegetarian bhailog - get back to caves/jungles and full organic lifestyle, you are being a hypocrite if you say - being a vegetarian results in lesser animal torture.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Akshay, you are confusing vegetarians with vegans. Vegans are the hard core boys that don't drink milk, eat organic stuff they grow in their backyard and give things like onions and garlic a miss.
akshayxyz Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 To ganesh and couple of others who said eating a cow is the same as eating part of a plant : Men share the same genes and DNA with a cow or sheep. We are all animals. Eating a cow is the same as eating a cat or your own kind. If you guys are ready to eat human meat more powder to you. If not, then tell me why its okay for your neighbor to eat your cow, but not you ? You got the same internals, a liver and brain and a thigh. You will probably taste the same too. Understood the plant has life too. But being vegetarian does least amount of harm to other living beings. In this day and age, eating meat is an option that you choose for your own pleasure. It's not required for your survival like your ancestors once needed it. Surprise - do a quick google search on "human DNA shared with banana". For the second part, read my previous and next post.
akshayxyz Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 Akshay' date=' you are confusing vegetarians with vegans. Vegans are the hard core boys that don't drink milk, eat organic stuff they grow in their backyard and give things like onions and garlic a miss.[/quote'] No, I am not confusing. I understand Vegan lifestyle. To people who say they turn vegetarian out of guilt of causing pain to animals - being vegetarian does not guarantee less animal torture - in modern world. 100s of products of daily use can be traced back to torturing some animal. One will have to be completely Vegan - to ensure that you cause minimal pain to living beings. Btw, even with Vegan lifestyle - one will still be causing pain (directly or indirectly) to some form of life (pests, rodents etc.)
ganeshran Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 To ganesh and couple of others who said eating a cow is the same as eating part of a plant : Men share the same genes and DNA with a cow or sheep. We are all animals. Eating a cow is the same as eating a cat or your own kind. If you guys are ready to eat human meat more powder to you. If not, then tell me why its okay for your neighbor to eat your cow, but not you ? You got the same internals, a liver and brain and a thigh. You will probably taste the same too. . LOL, What kind of an absurd argument is that? Most living organisms share a very high percentage of DNA. By that logic, you cannot eat any living cell.
EnterTheVoid Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Akshay, my dad turned vegetarian over the whole moral issue of eating animals. He does everything in his power to avoid meat where possible. He recognizes that animals will get hurt somewhere in the chain but there is nothing he can do about it. He's happy with his efforts and that's a good enough example for the rest of us to follow if we choose to.
ganeshran Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Its a personal choice IMO. If someone turns into a vegetarian for ethical and moral compulsions, or for taste reasons, then its completely his own decision and no one can question him on it. However, If people pontificate to others about the virtues of being vegetarian , then they should be prepare to be challenged about the ethics of vegetarianism as well.
anotherhawkeye Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 LOL' date=' What kind of an absurd argument is that? Most living organisms share a very high percentage of DNA. By that logic, you cannot eat any living cell.[/quote'] I still haven't an argument as to whats the difference between human, cat and dog meat and a sheep meat. DNA or not, we share same internals with other animals. Or are you guys going to argue that a banana has eyes and a kidney ?
ravishingravi Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 No, I am not confusing. I understand Vegan lifestyle. To people who say they turn vegetarian out of guilt of causing pain to animals - being vegetarian does not guarantee less animal torture - in modern world. 100s of products of daily use can be traced back to torturing some animal. One will have to be completely Vegan - to ensure that you cause minimal pain to living beings. Btw, even with Vegan lifestyle - one will still be causing pain (directly or indirectly) to some form of life (pests, rodents etc.) I think you are generalizing all the Vegans there. While I am sure there are those who take great moral pride and think they are making some radical change to animal treatment, For a lot of others it is a personal choice. They do not want to add to the demand because it is a demand and supply situation. A guy who goes for environment friendly vehicle and gives up one which runs on gas will not maybe directly reduce carbon index but is trying not to contribute to it. So I disagree with this whole "go back to the caves" argument. I say to each his own.
anotherhawkeye Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 It is a very good point - especially for those vegetarians who become veg assuming that it will not result in torturing animals. Increasing demand for dairy products, (or say eggs) will result in some animal abuse somewhere in the food chain. Cattle are injected with various medicines/steroids to increase the milk produce, calves are deprived of the milk, no guarantee about living conditions of dairy cattle. And to top it all - most of the medicines that you can safely consume today - are tested for years on poor guinea-pigs - much more torturous than killing them for food. There can be many more examples of the various products of your daily use ( shampoos, soaps - various cosmetics ...) So - vegetarian bhailog - get back to caves/jungles and full organic lifestyle, you are being a hypocrite if you say - being a vegetarian results in lesser animal torture. How is a vegetarian not causing 'lesser' animal torture ? They would have been responsible for at least one less chicken or cow getting killed compared to the person who eat that animal over a dinner in a fancy restaurant.
ganeshran Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I still haven't an argument as to whats the difference between human, cat and dog meat and a sheep meat. DNA or not, we share same internals with other animals. Or are you guys going to argue that a banana has eyes and a kidney ? Each meat has its own differences. Beef is unusually high in fat, goat meat is high in protein and so on and so forth. Every species eats particular types of meat depending on what is available to them. Humans eat food depending on their local availability and religious compulsions - People in China do consume monkey brains and people in Thailand consume some varieties of insects - something which could be unacceptable to humans elsewhere. What is your argument of same internals supposed to prove? All plants have very similar cell structure - why don't you eat grass then?
anotherhawkeye Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 What is your argument of same internals supposed to prove? All plants have very similar cell structure - why don't you eat grass then? I have eaten grass juice. But I don't claim to have eaten or like every vegetable and fruit. But i have no issue with some one else is eating it.
Brainfade Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Akshay' date=' you are confusing vegetarians with vegans. Vegans are the hard core boys that don't drink milk, eat organic stuff they grow in their backyard and give things like [b']onions and garlic a miss. No ... no .. those are the Jains. Vegans eat anything that is not of animal origin. So, you're right about the dairy and eggs. They eat onion and garlic. They are not necessarily organic. They also drink soy/rice milk, eat soy burgers with onions and garlic, and soy sausages and maybe soy eggs if there is such a thing :-). And they don't grow everything in their backyard. Here is the problem with the organic/natural/vegan cults. They all have specific definitions, but the lines get blurred, they are all categorized as one entity ... while in reality, they are very different. Here is a vegan onion ring recipe from pickyvegan.com: Vegan Onion Rings 2 sweet onions 1 cup vegan “buttermilk” pinch cayenne Vegetable oil for frying 1 cup unbleached all-purpose flour salt and freshly ground pepper 1. Slice onion into 1/4 inch thick rounds. Separate into rings. Place “buttermilk” in dish and add cayenne. Add onion rings and soak for 15 minutes. 2. Heat 1 inch of vegetable oil in a skillet or wok on medium-high heat. Place flour, salt and pepper in a re-sealable bag or container. Add rings and shake well. 3. When hot, add rings to oil a few at a time, without crowding the pan and fry until golden and crisp, about 1-2 minutes. 4. Drain on paper towels, salt and serve immediately. If you are cooking them in batches, keep them warm in the oven at 200F until they are all cooked.
Brainfade Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 Each meat has its own differences. Beef is unusually high in fat, goat meat is high in protein and so on and so forth. Every species eats particular types of meat depending on what is available to them. Humans eat food depending on their local availability and religious compulsions - People in China do consume monkey brains and people in Thailand consume some varieties of insects - something which could be unacceptable to humans elsewhere. What is your argument of same internals supposed to prove? All plants have very similar cell structure - why don't you eat grass then? It depends on the cut of meat - there are lean cuts of beef that have as little fat (per gm) as boneless, skinless chicken thigh.
ganeshran Posted June 29, 2011 Posted June 29, 2011 I have eaten grass juice. But I don't claim to have eaten or like every vegetable and fruit. But i have no issue with some one else is eating it. I still dont understand what the argument - of similar internal structures is supposed to prove? Are you trying to compare cannibalism (which does happen in some sects btw) to a person eating mutton or chicken? That's just like equating someone eating gobi manchurian to eating a log of wood.
akshayxyz Posted June 29, 2011 Author Posted June 29, 2011 Akshay, my dad turned vegetarian over the whole moral issue of eating animals. He does everything in his power to avoid meat where possible. He recognizes that animals will get hurt somewhere in the chain but there is nothing he can do about it. He's happy with his efforts and that's a good enough example for the rest of us to follow if we choose to. Personal choice is fine. Ultimate bottom-line is what makes you happy. Just that turning veg would ensure lesser pain to living beings - is just not right assumption- as your father also seem to understand.
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