Umesh relishing Pace War with Varun

[Rightarmfast]

Prasas will never accept that. Because nobody ever asked him to reduce his pace down. Had that been done, he would have been bowling a tad slower than Sunil Joshi :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: I would believe if Srinath spoke something about it. But not a trundler who was never fast enough. If the bowler struggles with accuracy due to pace, then so be it ! We definitely need pace ! On a personal note now, Fontaine...Are you into long distance running ? 17 kms in just 52 mins ? How ??? I am not able to reduce my timing at all..And I am just doing 10 kms in about 40mins...

[rkt.india]

Why does Munaf get so much criticism here? In the past, certainly he wasn't a fit player but all that has changed. He's improved his accuracy, developed variataions and according to Simmons has worked extremely hard on his fitness. I like the way he bowls too. I think he would be a good holding/3rd seamer in test matches and apart from Ishant he's the only other tall fast bowlers that can keep bowling at mid 80mph and hit the deck hard.

He deserves every bit of criticism. After having a bright start to his career being a quick bowler, he lost his way. It does not matter what he is now because he is not what he could have been after that kind of a start. The best Indian fast bowler to have that kind of a start after Mohd Nisar on Indian pitches against a strong side. He is just average, not even good and a as a team if we aspire to become number one again, we will need better bowlers even as a third seamer we cannot have a bowler to just fill in a spot.

[msb1991]

Why does Munaf get so much criticism here? In the past, certainly he wasn't a fit player but all that has changed. He's improved his accuracy, developed variataions and according to Simmons has worked extremely hard on his fitness. I like the way he bowls too. I think he would be a good holding/3rd seamer in test matches and apart from Ishant he's the only other tall fast bowlers that can keep bowling at mid 80mph and hit the deck hard.

Munaf gets criticism because a lot of people are idiots who love to jump to conclusions.

[rkt.india]

Munaf gets criticism because a lot of people are idiots who love to jump to conclusions.

So you think we should wait 5 years more to come to conclusion for these guys like Sreesanth and Munaf whether they are good at this level or not. They both wont even make first eleven of several domestic cricket teams in England and Australia. They are at an age where they should have been at their peak of fitness and bowling, but they are not.

[Fontaine]

Prasas will never accept that. Because nobody ever asked him to reduce his pace down. Had that been done, he would have been bowling a tad slower than Sunil Joshi :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: I would believe if Srinath spoke something about it. But not a trundler who was never fast enough. If the bowler struggles with accuracy due to pace, then so be it ! We definitely need pace !

Well, I was more talking about when Prasad was the coach that he never asked the bowlers to reduce their pace.

On a personal note now, Fontaine...Are you into long distance running ? 17 kms in just 52 mins ? How ??? I am not able to reduce my timing at all..And I am just doing 10 kms in about 40mins...

Running's not my thing. It's rowing. 17km in 52 was last year. This year I'm down to 17km in 51. I do about 3 or 4 sessions a week, each one 17k straight without stopping. If you really want to reduce your timing, it's about developing your slow twitch muscle fibers which are directly responsible for endurance (where as fast twitch muscle is more closely tied to explosive/quick bursts for sprinters). 1. Do you run at the same pace all the time and have been for some time? Then your slow twitch muscles have developed but aren't being pushed. So it's not necessarily the distance, you could try and run 12km but wouldn't necessarily get faster. So you have to change the pace. Once you get in stride, run at your usual pace for 4 min, then push a bit harder for the next 4 min. Repeat this cycle as long as you feel you can do it. Then when you feel you can handle 4 min of extra pace push it to 5/6 min the next time and so on. So effectively you're training/pushing your slow twitch muscles to perform more effeciently with the same amount of oxygen. This should reduce your 10 km time because you'll be able to run at a greater pace. You can buy pretty cool heart rate/step monitors that should help you work out your pace/time. 2. Rest/Recovery. Just as important as excercising. You need to give your body more rest, the harder you push. This means more hydration, more sleep. 3. I would recomned going onto nutritional websites for runners which are a great help in refining your diet. A lot of American/Uk college running programs actually list their diet/nutritional lists on websites so they are a great help. 4. And finally good luck! Always look for that 2nd wind (it's in your mind, just as much as your body).

[rkt.india]

@Fontaine Do you think fast twitch muscles can be developed after a certain age? I feel 24-25 is the max age you can work on to develop fast twitch fibers.

[Fontaine]

@Fontaine Do you think fast twitch muscles can be developed after a certain age? I feel 24-25 is the max age you can work on to develop fast twitch fibers.

Don't know, don't care. :--D A lot depends on genetics, but if they can't no big deal right. @rightarmfast: Also some practical tips on body positioning when running. 1. Run with your legs/hips, not your upper body. A lot of runners tense/push with their arms and their shoulders tend to hunch and get tight. This just constricts your lungs. Ideally, you shouldn't be thinking about your lower body/legs because it's just muscle memory but focus on your upper body which should be relaxed. Your arms should swing naturally instead of pushing them. Your shoulders should be relaxed also. That really helps. 2. Don't look down when you're running. It just restricts your throat and air intake. Your chin should be pointing forward and your head slightly up so your air intake is greater/smoother. You probably know all of this anyway right?

[msb1991]

So you think we should wait 5 years more to come to conclusion for these guys like Sreesanth and Munaf whether they are good at this level or not. They both wont even make first eleven of several domestic cricket teams in England and Australia. They are at an age where they should have been at their peak of fitness and bowling' date=' but they are not.[/quote'] I agree on Sreesanth. Munaf would easily get into any domestic side in England or Australia. Perhaps not in the overseas role because there is a lot of competition, but as a normal player in limited overs cricket he is highly skillful. In FC cricket, Munaf has an excellent record. In Test cricket, he has struggled due to lack of opportunities to forge a place in recent years. For all domestic teams he has played for, he has done well. http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/60/60943/f_Bowling_by_Team.html

[rkt.india]

Don't know, don't care. :--D A lot depends on genetics, but if they can't no big deal right. @rightarmfast: Also some practical tips on body positioning when running. 1. Run with your legs/hips, not your upper body. A lot of runners tense/push with their arms and their shoulders tend to hunch and get tight. This just constricts your lungs. Ideally, you shouldn't be thinking about your lower body/legs because it's just muscle memory but focus on your upper body which should be relaxed. Your arms should swing naturally instead of pushing them. Your shoulders should be relaxed also. That really helps. 2. Don't look down when you're running. It just restricts your throat and air intake. Your chin should be pointing forward and your head slightly up so your air intake is greater/smoother. You probably know all of this anyway right?

I never really run too much. when I used to play my bowling was my running and I used to bowl a lot without much break and run hard in run up. I used to bowl the quota of 2 bowlers , half to one hour without any other bowler touch the ball without stopping, 10-15 overs on the trot with only me bowling. I loved bowling and I still love bowling whenever I play.

[rkt.india]

I agree on Sreesanth. Munaf would easily get into any domestic side in England or Australia. Perhaps not in the overseas role because there is a lot of competition, but as a normal player in limited overs cricket he is highly skillful. In FC cricket, Munaf has an excellent record. In Test cricket, he has struggled due to lack of opportunities to forge a place in recent years. For all domestic teams he has played for, he has done well. http://www.cricketarchive.com/Archive/Players/60/60943/f_Bowling_by_Team.html

Yeah he has done well at FC level every time, but you yourself know why he was not given much chances in test cricket because he was not fit to last 5 days and is still not given even after Sreesanth's bad performance in the last game.

[Fontaine]

He deserves every bit of criticism. After having a bright start to his career being a quick bowler, he lost his way. It does not matter what he is now because he is not what he could have been after that kind of a start. The best Indian fast bowler to have that kind of a start after Mohd Nisar on Indian pitches against a strong side.

Well, I disagree. He suffered a stress fracture and had to modify his bowling action so it wasn't entirely his choice.

He is just average, not even good and a as a team if we aspire to become number one again, we will need better bowlers even as a third seamer we cannot have a bowler to just fill in a spot.

Yeah he has done well at FC level every time, but you yourself know why he was not given much chances in test cricket because he was not fit to last 5 days and is still not given even after Sreesanth's bad performance in the last game.

And I agree that in the past he was not fit. But we've seen his improvement on the field, his record in FC, improved bowling in ODI cricket and Simmons has said he's improved his fitness tremendously. So my argument is simply that on merit he deserves another chance. Not saying he'll do great/suck, but when a bowler goes away and improves/does what the coaches/team want him to do then he's deserved a recall. What he does when he gets that chance is up to him.

[rkt.india]

Well' date=' I disagree. [b']He suffered a stress fracture and had to modify his bowling action so it wasn't entirely his choice. And I agree that in the past he was not fit. But we've seen his improvement on the field, his record in FC, improved bowling in ODI cricket and Simmons has said he's improved his fitness tremendously. So my argument is simply that on merit he deserves another chance. Not saying he'll do great/suck, but when a bowler goes away and improves/does what the coaches/team want him to do then he's deserved a recall. What he does when he gets that chance is up to him.

No he did not suffer any stress fracture after being selected. He had a little ankle injury on the tour of SA in 2006 which was not too serious. Otherwise, he did not have any serious injury after his debut and on debut he bowled fast. He had a few shoulder injuries one while fielding in an India A match in 2005, but he came back after that in FC and again bowled well and quick. He changed his approach only after Chappel had suggested him but it is now 4 years that Ckappel has left India and he is still following his advice.

[Rightarmfast]

@rightarmfast: Also some practical tips on body positioning when running. 1. Run with your legs/hips, not your upper body. A lot of runners tense/push with their arms and their shoulders tend to hunch and get tight. This just constricts your lungs. Ideally, you shouldn't be thinking about your lower body/legs because it's just muscle memory but focus on your upper body which should be relaxed. Your arms should swing naturally instead of pushing them. Your shoulders should be relaxed also. That really helps. 2. Don't look down when you're running. It just restricts your throat and air intake. Your chin should be pointing forward and your head slightly up so your air intake is greater/smoother. You probably know all of this anyway right?

Thank you my brother...It is a lot of help :) Would you care to tell me some of those websites where I can check the diet...I do have a routine for my diet but my resting period is 0 because I think I overtrain. I just feel I cannot lose any time. Aint getting any younger. Actually do amateur boxing in Karnataka state boxing fed and am into long distance running and used to teach martial arts earlier. Quite teaching coz I am not getting time for that. I do practise in Kanteerva where all the pro athletes practise, so do have the basic knowledge of it and I myself do a lot of studying online. As of now, what I am doing is - reduce my total distance on weekdays to about 3-6 kms. And in this distance I try to accomodate atleast 12 sprints of minimum 200 mtrs distance. On sundays I run uphill on Nandi hills and run down ( total of 16 kms ). I do a lot of other stuff in addition to this ( like trying to run in the evening too ) resistance training by doing stepping and stuff apart from my boxing, martial arts training and swimming. God, I love physical activity so much. Had I been tall, I would definitely have been a genuine pace bowler :winky: Really would love to be in rowing too...As some more power in my arms and lats will only make my punches stronger...I wish u were in Bangalore ! I would love some more guidance by you in rowing as you seem to be doing really great timing ! I am very slow in running and I wish I can be fast...

[Rightarmfast]

No he did not suffer any stress fracture after being selected. He had a little ankle injury on the tour of SA in 2006 which was not too serious. Otherwise, he did not have any serious injury after his debut and on debut he bowled fast. He had a few shoulder injuries one while fielding in an India A match in 2005, but he came back after that in FC and again bowled well and quick. He changed his approach only after Chappel had suggested him but it is now 4 years that Ckappel has left India and he is still following his advice.

Laziness has always been Munaf's problem. Its a disease. Now, try as much as wants he cant regain his actual speed. He has lost it.

[saneindian]

These two will be at best be at the same pace as Ishant in first class cricket. May go onto improve their speeds as they get experience but as of now they are no better than what Ishant or Sreesanth or Munaf or even RPS were when they started. Let's stop hyping them as if they are some speed demons. Having said this though, I certainyl beliee they need to be sent for the ODIs in England een if they were to be just the reserves there.

[Ultimate_Game]

Last time I saw him' date=' he bowled 152K.:giggle:[/quote'] Somehow in IPL all the bowlers seem to bowl faster but when they show up in intl arena they suddenly bowl at least 10-15 kph slower than what they were bowling at in domestic cricket. Can't fathom this discrepancy as I have seen this phenomenon play out with plenty of pacers - VRV Singh, Munaf Patel, Umesh Yadav, Unadkat etc. We are lucky enough to see these guys bowl in 130s, forget 150s. I have seen too many false dawns and now my motto is "Seeing is believing". I am not buying into any more hype.

[rkt.india]

These two will be at best be at the same pace as Ishant in first class cricket. May go onto improve their speeds as they get experience but as of now they are no better than what Ishant or Sreesanth or Munaf or even RPS were when they started. Let's stop hyping them as if they are some speed demons. Having said this though, I certainyl beliee they need to be sent for the ODIs in England een if they were to be just the reserves there.

Rp was first at first bowling 125K in zimbabwe. He was not even 140. He bowled 140s only in T20 WC SA, never before not after.

[rkt.india]

Somehow in IPL all the bowlers seem to bowl faster but when they show up in intl arena they suddenly bowl at least 10-15 kph slower than what they were bowling at in domestic cricket. Can't fathom this discrepancy as I have seen this phenomenon play out with plenty of pacers - VRV Singh' date=' Munaf Patel, Umesh Yadav, Unadkat etc. We are lucky enough to see these guys bowl in 130s, forget 150s. I have seen too many false dawns and now my motto is "Seeing is believing". I am not buying into any more hype.[/quote'] VRV has not even bowled at pace in IPL. He was at his fastest on SA tour 2006 when he bowled up 145K after that he got injured and is never the same bowler. Unadkat is as usual whether it is IPL or any match. He is just medium fast. Munaf patel bowled quick in his first few tests over 140, but then setelled for line and length.

[vishalvirsingh]

I totally agree...not just wth Munaf but with all fast bowlers as soon as one slows down ...he becomes slow purposefully to conserve energy and very soon he becomes a slow bowler...Munaf shud be picked for T20"s or sometimes in one days but not for tests..as he is trying to be a shrewd bowler now and a defensive bowler.

[vishalvirsingh]

RP is now between 125 to 135K and sreesanth between 126K to 138K Sree"s swing is missing and his average pace is now 132K. Where as his average pace used to be 136K and faster ones were 146K now faster ones are 137K...so he is 10K less and hardly any swing.