Dravid in ODIs/T20 now..WTF?? Disaster waiting to happen!!

[rkt.india]

Yes. But that doesn't mean you play 5 dots and try and smash the final ball for six just because you need time to settle down, even in the final over. Sometimes you get time, an sometimes you don't, so you hav to be prepared for both the scenarios. I am not blaming Kohli or Dhoni for the loss, I know its not easy to score quick runs, sometimes it pays off and sometime it doesn't. I am blaming the bowlers whose exemplary discipline has been such a motivation to watch :hail::hail::hail::hail:

That is why sending Dravid at 3 was a wrong decision strategically after a strong start. You need to send a batsmen who can though take a few balls but can hit big blows as he sets which Dravid is not capable of. Bowling is weak and you cannot make it strong overnight. We depend on batsmen that is why we play 7 batsmen because we know whether we play 4 or 5 bowlers, bowlers are useless. I dont know if they bowled a single yorker whole match which is the most effective ball in these kind of matches.

[rkt.india]

No, how can you be sure ? Even they could have got set and thrown it away just like Dravid :dontknow:. Its not like Dravid wanted to get out. Even Dhoni and Kohli could have gone out for a run a ball 20 odd. So you know that they would have go set before playing stroke, and Dravid did the same, its just unfortunate that he could carry on and score big after he got set and did all the hard work. He is after all a human being. So final word from you - you feel that bowlers were at their absolute best an it was just the fact that there was nothing on offer for the bowlers that made them look ordinary?

Attacking game is not natural to Dravid and he looks awkward whenever he tries to attack. He looks pretty much like Manish Pandey or S Tiwary while he plays those ugly shots and tries to be aggressive. I really feel for Dravid in that regard that he is asked to play this ODI series by joker selectors. Let it be, jo hua so hua, we cannot control it. We are losing ODIs as well.

[gaurav92]

That is why sending Dravid at 3 is a wrong decision strategically. You need to send a batsmen who can though take a few balls but can hit big blows as he sets which Dravid is not capable of. Bowling is weak and you cannot make it strong overnight. We depend on batsmen that is why we play 7 batsmen because we know whether we play 4 or 5 bowlers, bowlers are useless. I dont know if they bowled a single yorker whole match which is the most effective ball in these kind of matches.

Then why don't we play 11 batsman if you say the bowling attack is completely useless. It would help in a way that there are so many batters who can bowl a few overs here and there. I bet we would have huge scores and even with that ordinary attack wee will show up a fight ? We don' do that because it is highly risky to go in without any bowler. Similarly you need at least one quality player who can handle any sort o situation with ease. And Dravid is one of them. Just asking, had he tried to smack one out of the ground, got out and the inexperienced Indian middle order collapsed, who would you have blamed ? I am sure it would have been Dravid a I earlier pointed out. And FFS we managed to score 187 which was more than enough on that track, but its the bowling that let us down, even if we have crossed 200, I am sure our bowlers were quite capable enough to still lose it. Why blame dravid then, our bowling is at fault.

[gaurav92]

Attacking game is not natural to Dravid and he looks awkward whenever he tries to attack. He looks pretty much like Manish Pandey or S Tiwary while he plays those ugly shots and tries to be aggressive. I really feel for Dravid in that regard that he is asked to play this ODI series by joker selectors. Let it be, jo hua so hua, we cannot control it. We are losing ODIs as well.

You still did not answer my questions in the post :P

[asterix]

The pitch was a road and the conditions went against Indian seam bowlers..agree.. There was no swing for even PK who gets swing under most adverse conditions.. So what sort of bowlers you need under theses circumstances? I noticed that there was nothing much to offer for England bowlers too.. But they kept on trying various strategies.. Mixing pace, bowling short, bouncers etc. The 3 jokers we have kept on bowling the same deliveries.. VK did try to mix it up. Bowling couple of slow bouncers and few good length deliveries.. The main problem was lack of pace. It was too easy for the batsment to pick their spots and whack..I don't remember a single English batsman was beaten for pace or good line.. So it serves right to the tem management and capatin if the team keeps on losing.. You banked on trundlers so you lose..You don't have single bowler who can rattle the openers..When you open the bowling with trundlers like PK & VK, you'll get blasted 9 out of 10 times. Ashwin did got some wickets but to be honest, I was missing Bhajji. Ashwin kept on bowling on the leg side (especially against Cook and later switched bowling round the wickets when he was properly thrashed). He looked pumped up and swore too after getting a wicket. It seems all these bowlers are very frustrated because of their rockstar status back in India (due to chaddi tournaments like IPL) and get frustrated when they get exposed while playin in abroad..

[gaurav92]

The pitch was a road and the conditions went against Indian seam bowlers..agree.. There was no swing for even PK who gets swing under most adverse conditions.. So what sort of bowlers you need under theses circumstances? I noticed that there was nothing much to offer for England bowlers too.. But they kept on trying various strategies.. Mixing pace, bowling short, bouncers etc. The 3 jokers we have kept on bowling the same deliveries.. VK did try to mix it up. Bowling couple of slow bouncers and few good length deliveries.. The main problem was lack of pace. It was too easy for the batsment to pick their spots and whack..I don't remember a single English batsman was beaten for pace or good line.. So it serves right to the tem management and capatin if the team keeps on losing.. You banked on trundlers so you lose..You don't have single bowler who can rattle the openers..When you open the bowling with trundlers like PK & VK, you'll get blasted 9 out of 10 times. Ashwin did got some wickets but to be honest, I was missing Bhajji. Ashwin kept on bowling on the leg side (especially against Cook and later switched bowling round the wickets when he was properly thrashed). He looked pumped up and swore too after getting a wicket. It seems all these bowlers are very frustrated because of their rockstar status back in India (due to chaddi tournaments like IPL) and get frustrated when they get exposed while playin in abroad..

By the time Ashwin came on to bowl, the pacers trundlers had already done their job :giggle: When you have pacers like Varun Aaron in the squad, why don't you trust him an give him a break, might as well do good. We need someone who can bowl at 135+ consistently and even touch 140s sometimes so that the batsman doesn't charge down the track and hit you over the top. VK, PK and Munna all got thrashed by Key-Sweater y'day, that was very disappointing to see :((

[rkt.india]

Then why don't we play 11 batsman if you say the bowling attack is completely useless. It would help in a way that there are so many batters who can bowl a few overs here and there. I bet we would have huge scores and even with that ordinary attack wee will show up a fight ? We don' do that because it is highly risky to go in without any bowler. Similarly you need at least one quality player who can handle any sort o situation with ease. And Dravid is one of them. Just asking, had he tried to smack one out of the ground, got out and the inexperienced Indian middle order collapsed, who would you have blamed ? I am sure it would have been Dravid a I earlier pointed out. And FFS we managed to score 187 which was more than enough on that track, but its the bowling that let us down, even if we have crossed 200, I am sure our bowlers were quite capable enough to still lose it. Why blame dravid then, our bowling is at fault.

NO 187 was not more than enough. It was just a competitive total. We had score in excess of 200. No, why should I blame Dravid for collapse. But blame is to take so many deliveries and ot out with an SR of 100 in a T20 situation. I dont blame Dravid as this is not his game, sendign him at 3 that time was wrong when we had a fast start already. We could score 29-30 runs in next 6 overs after that. Collapse happened in both matches at the end when they tried to play shots on every ball to make up for early slowness. Regarding bowlers, yaar part timers will go for even more. Bowlers still went for 8-9. Part timers will be hammered for 12 plus

[rkt.india]

You still did not answer my questions in the post :P

Yaar there is nothing guaranteed anywhere..but you have to look at the situation and send the batsmen according to them. Dhoni used to that before but not any more. He has become rigid or maybe captaincy is finally taking a toll on him as team has started losing. He used to be flexible before but not now. They needed to maintain that RR reasonably well, but it went below 7 by 9th over and then pressure built on the batsmen coming in to score too quickly too much which is not possibly on any form of cricket. The bold part is one of the main reason we lost the match whether you agree or not.

[rkt.india]

The pitch was a road and the conditions went against Indian seam bowlers..agree.. There was no swing for even PK who gets swing under most adverse conditions.. So what sort of bowlers you need under theses circumstances? I noticed that there was nothing much to offer for England bowlers too.. But they kept on trying various strategies.. Mixing pace, bowling short, bouncers etc. The 3 jokers we have kept on bowling the same deliveries.. VK did try to mix it up. Bowling couple of slow bouncers and few good length deliveries.. The main problem was lack of pace. It was too easy for the batsment to pick their spots and whack..I don't remember a single English batsman was beaten for pace or good line.. So it serves right to the tem management and capatin if the team keeps on losing.. You banked on trundlers so you lose..You don't have single bowler who can rattle the openers..When you open the bowling with trundlers like PK & VK, you'll get blasted 9 out of 10 times. Ashwin did got some wickets but to be honest, I was missing Bhajji. Ashwin kept on bowling on the leg side (especially against Cook and later switched bowling round the wickets when he was properly thrashed). He looked pumped up and swore too after getting a wicket. It seems all these bowlers are very frustrated because of their rockstar status back in India (due to chaddi tournaments like IPL) and get frustrated when they get exposed while playin in abroad..

Another problem i slack of bowling Yorkers. Even at 130K, you can bowl good accurate yorkers.

[gaurav92]

NO 187 was not more than enough. It was just a competitive total. We had score in excess of 200. No, why should I blame Dravid for collapse. But blame is to take so many deliveries and ot out with an SR of 100 in a T20 situation. I dont blame Dravid as this is not his game, sendign him at 3 that time was wrong when we had a fast start already. We could score 29-30 runs in next 6 overs after that. Collapse happened in both matches at the end when they tried to play shots on every ball to make up for early slowness. Regarding bowlers, yaar part timers will go for even more. Bowlers still went for 8-9. Part timers will be hammered for 12 plus

Aur socho agar Dravid pehle out ho jata aur team collapse ho jati tab ? Tab kya aap yeh zimma humaare yuvaaon ko dete ? Nahi, tab bhi ungli Dravid pe uthti kyuki : Sabko lagta hai ki Dravid T20 ke qaabil nahi hai, aisa nahi hai, main samajhta hoon ki T20 Dravid ke qaabil nahi hai. Translation for those who doesn't know Hindi : "Everyone feels that Dravid is slow and Dravid don't deserve to be in the shorter formats, but I feel that the shorter format (T20) doesn't deserve Dravid" A player like Dravid is born once in 1000 years and we were lucky enough to witness him in our generation

[asterix]

By the time Ashwin came on to bowl' date=' the [s']pacers trundlers had already done their job :giggle: When you have pacers like Varun Aaron in the squad, why don't you trust him an give him a break, might as well do good. We need someone who can bowl at 135+ consistently and even touch 140s sometimes so that the batsman doesn't charge down the track and hit you over the top. VK, PK and Munna all got thrashed by Key-Sweater y'day, that was very disappointing to see :((

The reason is simple.. Massive EGO.. What if new bowlers like Varun do well (very rare in team India unless he gets proper field setting, bowling strategy etc. You cannot expect to get wickets if Varun bowls a sharp bouncer and manages to induce a false stroke only to find the ball landing in a no mans land because the captain fabulous didn't bothered to strategise and left everything on this bowlers..) and proves you wrong that throughout the tour your bowler selectiion was effing WRONG! The EGO that made him to fly out a pathetic overweight bowler friend of his, RP (whose mere credential for a recall was that he attended some effing wedding) ahead of a young fast bowler.. Mind you there are many people, including the captain himself, awaiting for a failure of bowlers like Aron so that they can tell you, "we were right, lets switch back to trundlers.."..

[gaurav92]

Yaar there is nothing guaranteed anywhere..but you have to look at the situation and send the batsmen according to them. Dhoni used to that before but not any more. He has become rigid or maybe captaincy is finally taking a toll on him as team has started losing. He used to be flexible before but not now. They needed to maintain that RR reasonably well' date= but it went below 7 by 9th over and then pressure built on the batsmen coming in to score too quickly too much which is not possibly on any form of cricket. The bold part is one of the main reason we lost the match whether you agree or not.

No I disagree. We more than made up for it in the last few overs by getting upto 187. We lost the game in the first 6-7 overs of English batting where they absolutely murdered us. Now I know your reply would be, why didn't we go after the bowling as they did ? Don't be silly rkt, we all know there is a world of difference between their bowling attack an ours. had we gone after their bowling, we would have lost wickets in heaps. Trust me, ha we tried an accelerated in the 7-8th over, we would have lost a couple of wickets and we wouldn't have even reached 170. Its not a video game where you can just boink the run rate as and when you want.

[gaurav92]

The reason is simple.. Massive EGO.. What if new bowlers like Varun do well (very rare in team India unless he gets proper field setting, bowling strategy etc. You cannot expect to get wickets if Varun bowls a sharp bouncer and manages to induce a false stroke only to find the ball landing in a no mans land because the captain fabulous didn't bothered to strategise and left everything on this bowlers..) and proves you wrong that throughout the tour your bowler selectiion was effing WRONG! The EGO that made him to fly out a pathetic overweight bowler friend of his, RP (whose mere credential for a recall was that he attended some effing wedding) ahead of a young fast bowler.. Mind you there are many people, including the captain himself, awaiting for a failure of bowlers like Aron so that they can tell you, "we were right, lets switch back to trundlers.."..

Yes, Dhoni definitely has ego issues. I remember he selected Sir Jadeja for the game against S.Africa even after his massive 35 ball 25 against Ingerland that cost us the World Cup

[rkt.india]

Aur socho agar Dravid pehle out ho jata aur team collapse ho jati tab ? Tab kya aap yeh zimma humaare yuvaaon ko dete ? Nahi, tab bhi ungli Dravid pe uthti kyuki : Sabko lagta hai ki Dravid T20 ke qaabil nahi hai, aisa nahi hai, main samajhta hoon ki T20 Dravid ke qaabil nahi hai. Translation for those who doesn't know Hindi : "Everyone feels that Dravid is slow and Dravid don't deserve to be in the shorter formats, but I feel that the shorter format (T20) doesn't deserve Dravid" A player like Dravid is born once in 1000 years and we were lucky enough to witness him in our generation

Yaar...you cannot play thinking negatively. After that kind of a start, if any one would have thought of a collapse than team cannot win. You need to play positively and keep the run rate up. There is no safe score in T20 so you just cannot stay in cave thinking of a collapse and stop playing shots, especially on a flat wicket and to stop a collapse Dravid could have been sent at 4 if a batsmen sent at 3 did not click. This negative approach is not going to win us matches. First team needs to think positive and then play positive. Dravid at 3 will be fine in 50 overs game where he can play his game.

[rkt.india]

The reason is simple.. Massive EGO.. What if new bowlers like Varun do well (very rare in team India unless he gets proper field setting, bowling strategy etc. You cannot expect to get wickets if Varun bowls a sharp bouncer and manages to induce a false stroke only to find the ball landing in a no mans land because the captain fabulous didn't bothered to strategise and left everything on this bowlers..) and proves you wrong that throughout the tour your bowler selectiion was effing WRONG! The EGO that made him to fly out a pathetic overweight bowler friend of his, RP (whose mere credential for a recall was that he attended some effing wedding) ahead of a young fast bowler.. Mind you there are many people, including the captain himself, awaiting for a failure of bowlers like Aron so that they can tell you, "we were right, lets switch back to trundlers.."..

I agree with you Asterix. Dhoni is losing.

[rkt.india]

No I disagree. We more than made up for it in the last few overs by getting upto 187. We lost the game in the first 6-7 overs of English batting where they absolutely murdered us. Now I know your reply would be, why didn't we go after the bowling as they did ? Don't be silly rkt, we all know there is a world of difference between their bowling attack an ours. had we gone after their bowling, we would have lost wickets in heaps. Trust me, ha we tried an accelerated in the 7-8th over, we would have lost a couple of wickets and we wouldn't have even reached 170. Its not a video game where you can just boink the run rate as and when you want.

here you himself iterated it then how can you blame a batsmen like Dhoni or Tiwary to come in 20th over and start hitting like it is a video game. Maintaining a run rate at 8-9 is easy where you need to take a boundary or two and single-doubles rather than suddenly upping the ante in end overs and try to hit 4-6 very ball to score more than 15 in an over. We went around 6-7 in those overs which certainly set us back in final total.

[gaurav92]

Arey rkt bhai read my posts, I am not blaming the batsman, I am blaming our bowling :wall: Pehle posts padh liya karo poora uske baad post karo

[rkt.india]

Arey rkt bhai read my posts, I am not blaming the batsman, I am blaming our bowling :wall: Pehle posts padh liya karo poora uske baad post karo

I read but blaming bowling is not the solution because we have to play what we have, so batsmen need to tighten their belts and score more runs. You said we would have not have scored even 170. We lost even after scoring 187 so you need to take risk and in that process there is a probability that you can score more. T20 is always a gamble and there is not perfect script to it or a method. It is fast and the one who thinks fast and adjust mostly wins.

[Sachinism]

Dhoni said at the toss he would have prefered to chase. As that way we know what we need. When Dravid bats slolwly, it may not look too bad, but we don't know how good the pitch is til the opposition bats

[rkt.india]

Dhoni said at the toss he would have prefered to chase. As that way we know what we need. When Dravid bats slolwly' date=' it may not look too bad, but we don't know how good the pitch is til the opposition bats[/quote'] Agree