Mitchel Johnson

[vvvslaxman]

Umesh has played enough to prove all the things you have mentioned. He just did not like proving. May be he should just stick to Tests for a while where he can get away with loose balls. When we tour SA he will get chance. Let us see how he does well there. Sreesanth even Venky prasad has done well in SA.

[rkt.india]

Our fast bowlers are one or two rungs below the likes of Harris' date=' Broad, Steyn, Johnson. Zaheer is the last world class bowler we had. Others are pretenders who would have occasional good and tons of bad days .[/quote'] But it does not mean you do not play them. How will you make fast bowlers then? This is the reason we never had good fast bowlers. Play the kind of bowlers who are most likely succeed in international cricket. Have you ever seen bowlers like VK and Unadkat succeed at the highest level? You must have something to trouble batsmen either swing or pace. These both do not have anything. We do not play our pace bowlers because we fear they can go for runs but who is not going for runs.

[vvvslaxman]

SO what are you saying?We persist with Unadkat' date='Mithun,Vinay.....Yeah while at it lets bring back Arvind and RP Singh 2013.[/quote'] No.. Bhuvnaeswar is already doing a decent job. Shami is a new addition. But i will be guarded about him. Umesh can play Tests. Mohit should be given a go in one dayer ahead. We should not even think of Unadkat, Mithun, Vinay, Dinda etc talentless hacks. I am only talking about bowlers with a bit of skill.

[maniac]

Umesh has played enough to prove all the things you have mentioned. He just did not like proving. May be he should just stick to Tests for a while where he can get away with loose balls. When we tour SA he will get chance. Let us see how he does well there. Sreesanth even Venky prasad has done well in SA.

SReeshanth was quick enough in South africa.....Venky despite being a tundler got surprising bounce with his leg cutter which at his peak(if you can call that) was very good....He was a smart bowler.

[vvvslaxman]

No Umesh doesn.t mean automatically it s Vinay. Who wants Vinay. How about giving chances to guys like Mohit, Ishwar Pandey.

[vvvslaxman]

SReeshanth was quick enough in South africa.....Venky despite being a tundler got surprising bounce with his leg cutter which at his peak(if you can call that) was very good....He was a smart bowler.

So if Umesh plays he should click right? Let us see how he does there.

[rkt.india]

Umesh has played enough to prove all the things you have mentioned. He just did not like proving. May be he should just stick to Tests for a while where he can get away with loose balls. When we tour SA he will get chance. Let us see how he does well there. Sreesanth even Venky prasad has done well in SA.

Umesh has improved over time in ODIs. His stats this year has been far better than before and he can only improve. 26 ODIs are not a good enough criteria.

[vvvslaxman]

Umesh playing tests i have no problem. He can be a good addition. But in one dayers no no.

[maniac]

No Umesh doesn.t mean automatically it s Vinay. Who wants Vinay. How about giving chances to guys like Mohit' date=' Ishwar Pandey.[/quote'] Mohit Sharma is no different from Bhuvan from what I have seen....I think it's all downhill from here for Bhuvan.....just imagine with all the BCCI money and the coaches available at his disposal in IPL etc,if he had added a few yards of pace to his skills,he would have been brilliant but looks like he is regressing.....Sad but open your eyes(not juist you),this is happening

[vvvslaxman]

Umesh has improved over time in ODIs. His stats this year has been far better than before and he can only improve. 26 ODIs are not a good enough criteria.

He will get chances to prove his credentials in SA.

[rkt.india]

No Umesh doesn.t mean automatically it s Vinay. Who wants Vinay. How about giving chances to guys like Mohit' date=' Ishwar Pandey.[/quote'] Because you need variation in your attack. BK, Mohit, and Pandey all similar pace bowlers 130-135. At least need one bowler who can bowl 140-145K. You need bit of swing, bit of pace, a combination, not to be one dimensional.

[vvvslaxman]

Because you need variation in your attack. BK' date=' Mohit, and Pandey all similar pace bowlers 130-135. At least need one bowler who can bowl 140-145K. You need bit of swing, bit of pace, a combination, not to be one dimensional.[/quote'] Shami clocks 145 bowling better yorkers right :hmmm: He used to be poor. He has transformed for sure.

[rkt.india]

He will get chances to prove his credentials in SA.

If Aaron comes back the way he was bowling in ODIs before then he can be another one who can fill the vacant spot of a genuine pacer as you need a combination in your attack. Sameness in the attack is not helping England in this test once the ball stopped swinging.

[maniac]

If Aaron comes back the way he was bowling in ODIs before then he can be another one who can fill the vacant spot of a genuine pacer as you need a combination in your attack.

RKT you are the best person to answer this...I don't rate Aaron personally because of him being injury -prone,Umesh we all have seen can be quick,isn't there anyone else apart from these 2 who can bowl at a similar pace right now? That leaves us only with umesh I am afraid

[rkt.india]

Shami clocks 145 bowling better yorkers right :hmmm: He used to be poor. He has transformed for sure.

It is only 2 bowlers, BK and Shami, need a 3rd one too, in fact need 5 bowlers who can rotate, not just ones who bowl and can be effective with new ball but ones who can bowl at any stage of the match.

[vvvslaxman]

It is only 2 bowlers' date=' BK and Shami, need a 3rd one too, in fact need 5 bowlers who can rotate, not just ones who bowl and can be effective with new ball but ones who can bowl at any stage of the match.[/quote'] But you don't want a dernbach kind of bowler do we. He also bowls quick when he wants. But he goes for plenty too. If Umesh wants to be a great successful test bowler he has to stay away from ODIs as much as possible atleast at the start. Steyn is also picky about ODIs.

[rkt.india]

RKT you are the best person to answer this...I don't rate Aaron personally because of him being injury -prone,Umesh we all have seen can be quick,isn't there anyone else apart from these 2 who can bowl at a similar pace right now? That leaves us only with umesh I am afraid

Most genuine pacers have been injury prone at early age. The Johnson who is rattling batsmen now was as injury prone as Aaron at that age. There is a reason Johnson debuted so late in mid 20s because he was injury prone and had so many back stress fractures. Same for Lee. Lee had a back surgery even before his debut. Apart from these 2, only Rahul Shukla and Pawan Suyal are the ones who can bowl up to mid 140s and both have not been taking too many wickets in FC cricket this season.

[rkt.india]

But you don't want a dernbach kind of bowler do we. He also bowls quick when he wants. But he goes for plenty too. If Umesh wants to be a great successful test bowler he has to stay away from ODIs as much as possible atleast at the start. Steyn is also picky about ODIs.

It is certainly reasonable but then he is not even playing Test matches. BK was preferred over him while he has far better test record than BK. Scenario with SA was different. They had bowlers to fall back on. They had likes Pollock, Ntini, Nel, Langveldt then Morkel. We do nto have such luxury. We will have to make what we have. Fast bowlers are made by captains confidence as much as they are born with pace.

[vvvslaxman]

It is certainly reasonable but then he is not even playing Test matches. BK was preferred over him while he has far better test record than BK. Scenario with SA was different. They had bowlers to fall back on. They had likes Pollock' date=' Ntini, Nel, Langveldt then Morkel. We do nto have such luxury. We will have to make what we have. Fast bowlers are made by captains confidence as much as they are born with pace.[/quote'] One bad thing i have noticed among Indians regardless of captain is once they start playing both formats they end up losing their ability in both formats. I dearly wished Ishant not to play ODIs at all at the start of his career. Without even developing himself into a proper bowler he could not adjust between formats and his development was stunted badly.

[Number]

Our fast bowlers are one or two rungs below the likes of Harris' date=' Broad, Steyn, Johnson. Zaheer is the last world class bowler we had. Others are pretenders who would have occasional good and tons of bad days .[/quote'] Wasn't Johnson overrated spraygun and Bhuvi >>> Johnson during Odi series.