Shami ahmed-First impression..!!!

[Old guy]

Vinay used to be better than he bowled in this series. He was never a great bowler but he used to have a good ODI record which came from bowling good spells every so often. He isn't bowling these spells anymore. This is not to say it was always wrong to pick him, just that he was decent and now is bowling poorly. We've seen this from a lot of pacers in the past. A lot of bowlers struggled in this series and although I think Vinay should be dropped, I don't think we should overstate how bad he is as a bowler. He can swing the ball nicely and bowls consistently. His error is that his length is too short for flat pitches and he struggles to correct this and struggles to maintain his cool when he is getting hit (don't we all). Speaking about Yadav raises an interesting point about playing bowlers in the formats where they are not best suited. I personally believe that Yadav should have played in this series but that it is hard to say whether he'd have done well or not. His career record does not look good and he took punishment in Challenger Trophy. The big risk is not trying him out in this ODI series (because surely he cannot be worse than Ishant and Vinay) but rather that a poor performance will impact on his confidence which will in turn affect his Test match bowling. We saw how Dhawan's Test debut gave him so much confidence in all formats, I think the opposite can be true. Although I don't think you should confuse the formats too much, I think they can be linked by confidence at times.

i am fine with yadav not playing i said this after some one questioned his place in test matches so i was little angry :cantstop: fair enough do not play him in odis but if ur excuse is he is too expensive then playing ishant or vinay kind of contradicts them doesn't it ? and about vinay lets agree to disagree.. i do not see anything good about him.. he floats new ball at 120k which moves a bit in air but most of times openers are good enough to punish him or not get out ..in 2 year's only spell worth mentioning is his 4 wickets against england otherwise he has been strictly below average and i will have praveen kumar over him anyday if you just want accuracy ..

[express bowling]

@ msb If Vinay was a decent ODI bowler before this series then why was his record so bad ? I believe his average was 38 and ER close to 6. Now, it is even worse ofcourse.

[msb1991]

it is something asif did and mohit sharma also showed this ..

I miss watching Asif bowl. He was so good.

[Old guy]

I don't know whether it was gym or not but I recall Australian members on another forum noting that he used to bowl 125kph. Something which holds back serious weight training from cricketers is the belief that it will cause injuries. It is an interesting point and I'd love to read research into it. You have the injury prone Watson who has only recently been injury free (before today) after stopping weights and doing yoga. Harris is injury prone and another big guy, Napier from England, also gets injured often. I find it hard to find logic as to why being stronger will make you more likely to get injured - surely it will make you more injury resistant. So yeah, if anyone has research into that, I would like to read it.

i think watson is strange case he was too bulky before.. bulky does not mean efficently strong cos after all you have to strech your body and throw something and its not about picking up something heavy so you do not just need pure strength you need bit of agility too.. brett lee had perfect body for fast bowler IMO .. harris again with him you cannot prove anything..why is he getting injured ? is it because he is bowling out of himself ? i do not think that is the case .. maybe he is not meant to bowl quickly ..no can tell but atleast what every one in india should do is get stronger .. no one is asking them to bulk up but physique of people like zack has been awful in past and i have no question in my mind if you are fitter you will so anything physical better .

[Old guy]

I miss watching Asif bowl. He was so good.

lol yeah he used to trap people so well some thing wht zaheer did in his prime :)

[CSK Fan]

This guy is such an asset that I can be gay for him he needs it. That's how much valuable he is ATM

[fineleg]

Seriyaana Vennai (kumar) Aka real useless(butter) kumar

[Zanjeer]

People who are still supporting Vinny the pooh needs to get their heads checked. what a joke of a fast bowler...

[Old guy]

This guy is such an asset that I can be gay for him he needs it. That's how much valuable he is ATM

no one expected him to be this good TBH :cantstop:

[Vilander]

Again a good game from Shami, when everyone else was getting plastered..he bowled multiple spells and still did well was pacy too. shami length Bhuv has similar control but far lesser pace. compare it with NCN just a tad slower than shami but who is clearly seen as the next big thing in aus. shami showing better control than NCN almost the same as medium pacer Bhuvi.

[Old guy]

thanks for awesome post viander :icflove: he has been find of this pointless series for me..:D

[Vilander]

thanks for awesome post viander :icflove: he has been find of this pointless series for me..:D

definitely the find of the series..excited he will do well in SA along with Yadav...and with Bhuv we have after a long time a potent attack for SA...:yay:

[Old guy]

definitely the find of the series..excited he will do well in SA along with Yadav...and with Bhuv we have after a long time a potent attack for SA...:yay:

he might not get chance to play but that is ok.. if zack can stay fit he should play

[Trundler27]

Sometimes, the hype is really true and in this case I have found that to be so. Shami is a potential seamer with many different weapons for different conditions. He has played just 3 games in this nonsense series and he ends up with the best strike rate and bowling average of all our bowlers. If there is anyway to win games in such conditions then it is by taking wickets and he has done that much better than all bowlers on display (including Johnson who had a couple of out of form bunnies to pad his stats). Shami, wish you all the best and hope you keep getting better and hope you get a consistent run in international cricket! Shami / BK is a very very good combo in any form due to their complementing strengths.

[Vilander]

ok here we go what did legund do wrong, he bowled short and slow that why..he showed ok control but since he was bowling so slow and short and since he was not showing any lateral movement it was all too easy to put him away in this pitch which was really a flat road.. Shami Legund, look at the short balls. and with no pace to challenge batsmen or lateral movement( separates bhuv) he was cannon fodder. interesting comparison would be pissant who was pathetic for an other reason, lack of control and got wasted by Faulkner in that match,see below.

[Vilander]

I don't know whether it was gym or not but I recall Australian members on another forum noting that he used to bowl 125kph. Something which holds back serious weight training from cricketers is the belief that it will cause injuries. It is an interesting point and I'd love to read research into it. You have the injury prone Watson who has only recently been injury free (before today) after stopping weights and doing yoga. Harris is injury prone and another big guy, Napier from England, also gets injured often. I find it hard to find logic as to why being stronger will make you more likely to get injured - surely it will make you more injury resistant. So yeah, if anyone has research into that, I would like to read it.

i am a weights guy 80% muclemass and bit of midriff fat.. 15+ years of irregular gym, my nephews yoga master saw me one day and told me to try this butterfly move sitting on the floor and bending the legs to form a butterfly shape and shaking them, he also made me do a few yoga postures for improving digestion and flexibility, he said that way i will have lesser muscle aches, he also said my muscles are not used to flexible movement and i am just moving them in similar easy motions while working out.

[express bowling]

Md. Shami's speeds in this series Match 1- Fastest 144.5 k Match 2 - Fastest 144.0 k Match 3 - Fastest 143.3 k : [ 147.2 k according to Cricinfo ] Average around 139 k / 140 k in every match. This guy seems to have improved his pace, bounce and skill.

[msb1991]

@ msb If Vinay was a decent ODI bowler before this series then why was his record so bad ? I believe his average was 38 and ER close to 6. Now, it is even worse ofcourse.

Average was 35.93 and economy was 5.50. That's mediocre, not terrible. But let's not get bogged down in semantics, we agree that it isn't quite good enough! In 2011 and 2012, he was good in ODIs, averaging around 30 and going for 5.4 per over. He was never a great ODI bowler but ODI bowling these days is very difficult. Dhoni thought he had someone who could offer him a bit of control and so he stuck with Vinay. I admire that Dhoni won't bow to public opinion and ditch a bowler and get in the new star only to forget them instantly. I don't always agree with him but he takes selection seriously and does not seem to discard people forever after a few bad games.

[express bowling]

^ Backing your players is a very good policy to have for a captain but, for that,the captain should ensure that the players selected have potential. If backed, for a reasonable length of time, he can develop into a good player. Players like Kohli, Pujara, Dhawan, Rohit, Ashwin, Umesh, Shami, BK etc. should be given the long rope. But players who are choosen, because nobody better is available or because of some politics, if given the long rope , harms the country and does not make any sense. I think a person of Dhoni's experience, knows it more than you and I , that Vinay has no potential. Also, it is not like players have not been discarded after a brief stint.

[express bowling]

^ Public opinion comes in after bad performances. It is not a question of bowing to that and changing a player but knowing , even before continuous bad performances, that this player is not international class and should not be in the team.