ananthd Posted October 13, 2011 Posted October 13, 2011 Bizarre list.... The guy talks about "match situation", "closeness of win/loss", percentage of runs scored etc.... Yet not only are two of Sachin's best are missing(136 & 119) are not in, so is Gavaskar's best, his final innings of 96...
Sachinism Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Sachin is 1 away from compiling his own 100 list QOTY
Sachin=GOD Posted October 14, 2011 Posted October 14, 2011 Sachin is 1 away from compiling his own 100 list :two_thumbs_up:
Lurker Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 And Kapil makes an entry yet again woohoo!!! What a player. :yay:
Lurker Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I think Anant Narayan has something against Sachin...I have noticed this in many of his columns. He doesn't leave a single chance to pass a sarcastic one at Sachin. There was once I wrote to him asking how on earth could a 4th innings performance against Waz, Waq, Saqi, etc of 136 not make it to his top 100 but a 3rd innings 129 against Donald, McMillan, Mathews (all were kids still) can. I listed down the various criteria he said the rating was based on - state of match (including innings, number of wickets down, partnerships) state of pitch (runs p wicket) quality of bowlers number of partnerships batting with tail etc etc And I pointed out that there is hardly much of a diff between Kapsy's 129 and Sachin's 136 that one of them is ranked in the top 75 and the other is not even in the top 100. The reply I get is something like - "I know I need to look at it again, Sachin has surely had some great innings since the exercise...his 241 at Sydney definitely is great" O well. But the good part is Anant is a fellow kapsy bhakt :--D If Viru's 201 coming in the first innings of Test is rated in the top 10 I seriously don't see why the 136, 169, 103*, 155*, 119*, etc, etc, etc cannot be in the top 100. I agree with many of his top 100 but I just get the feeling he has removed Sachin by design somehow Edit - if we can include Lax's 167 in a losing cause then how about Sachin's 50th cent against Steyn. Even his 51st cent was great Yeah there is a big difference. Kapil's innings was played abroad while SRT's was at home. Dont know about you but personally I rate innings abroad by itself better than innings at home. O well. But the good part is Anant is a fellow kapsy bhakt :--D No he is not. If anything he comes across as a Kapil hater. Where did you get that he is a bhakt?
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Yeah there is a big difference. Kapil's innings was played abroad while SRT's was at home. Dont know about you but personally I rate innings abroad by itself better than innings at home.Lurks, I have analyzed both more closely than just home/away, so please spare me the home-away cr@p. No he is not. If anything he comes across as a Kapil hater. Where did you get that he is a bhakt?Read his articles and the way he mentions Kapil Dev and you will see a rather clear fandom for Kapil. Of course it is a subjective observation from reading enough of Anant's articles
Cricket Tragic Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 What does Anant have to do with this? This list was just done by some random fan on a cricket forum.
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Anant Narayanan was the original author(s) of the list. I assumed he was involved even in the re-list...I think he sure would have been involved
Lurker Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Lurks, I have analyzed both more closely than just home/away, so please spare me the home-away cr@p. That was wasted time and space, wasnt it? lol Point remains, it is more difficult to score a century in South Africa against a marauding Donald than doing the same in India against Akram. You may disagree but this is not the only time Kap's South African innings has been picked ahead of SRT's chennais. Read his articles and the way he mentions Kapil Dev and you will see a rather clear fandom for Kapil. Of course it is a subjective observation from reading enough of Anant's articles Oh I have. Everytime I read any stats article of his I end up shooting him a message on why he loaths Kapil Dev and invariable he will dance around the issue :hehe: Do you have link to any article(s) where he has actually praised the great man?
Cricket Tragic Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 No this is just by some fan on a forum. Most of Anant's stuff is a joke as well and I'm not sure why people take it seriously. Reg Tendulkar, his "analysis" rated him as the greatest ever batsman across formats. Where is the hate? :dontknow: http://blogs.espncricinfo.com/itfigures/archives/2010/01/_sachin_tendulkar_on_top.php
Trichromatic Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Reg Tendulkar, his "analysis" rated him as the greatest ever batsman across formats. Where is the hate? :dontknow: http://blogs.espncricinfo.com/itfigures/archives/2010/01/_sachin_tendulkar_on_top.php It's old nature of Indian fans. If anyone misses Tendulkar then they label him as Tendulkar hater.
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 That was wasted time and space' date=' wasnt it? lol[/quote']To each his own.
Lurker Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Why do you forget a marauding Saqi turning it square on a 5th day Chennai track in the sweltering and humid heat of Chennai? Why the obsession with fast pitches? Donald was not even approaching his greatness then. Purely from a batsman's perspective it is more difficult to score on a pacy pitch against one of the best pace bowlers of the time, specially if the game is played overseas and the attack is good. Playing against a top spinner on a crumbling track has its own merit of course but the former is more lethal, I think. That combined with the fact Indians play spin typically better while we fold up against pace makes Kaps innings better pound for pound. My main point is this - the two innings were not so far from each other that one of them could be in the top 75 and the other not even in the top 100. I may rate Kapil's innings ahead of Sachin's 136 but it wouldn't be by any significant margin. For all practical purposes both innings were more or less of same greatness. Kapil's came in third innings, Sachin's in the 4th innings. That I do not argue with. Such rankings are played on numbers only and dont tell the entire story, which is my gripe against stats in general.
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Purely from a batsman's perspective it is more difficult to score on a pacy pitch against one of the best pace bowlers of the time' date=' specially if the game is played overseas and the attack is good. Playing against a top spinner on a crumbling track has its own merit of course but the former is more lethal, I think.[/quote']I don't agree with that. Whether you are facing a fast bowler on a bouncy track or a wizard on a dust bowl, the relative difficulty is almost the same. I think you are falling prey to the Anglo-Australian notion that pace and bounce is more difficult than spin and curls. They are both equally tough...and all the ATGs of the game have been successful in both. In fact being successful across conditions is a necessity to be considered an ATG But the analysis has nothing to do with your nationality. More importantly, despite being an Indian Kapil was a much better player of pace bowling than of spin...he was no great shakes when the ball turned. His style was such that, the faster the ball was bowled the easier for him to hit it. Wgereas Sachin as a batsman is a Buddha...nothing else need to be said. So let's not compare the individual batsmen. the idea is about analyzing innings irrespective of the batsmen who played it.
Lurker Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 I think you are falling prey to the Anglo-Australian notion that pace and bounce is more difficult than spin and curls. They are both equally tough...and all the ATGs of the game have been successful in both. In fact being successful across conditions is a necessity to be considered an ATG Dude, respectfully, whats with the online judgemental hat that you wear sometimes? I criticize Gavaskar and you suggest its because of Raj Thackeray? I suggest playing an ace pace bowler on a bouncy track is more difficult than spinner and you think I have fallen prey to Anglo-Aussie spin?? Maybe you can just keep the point of view to just that without getting into where it is coming from? But the analysis has nothing to do with your nationality. More importantly, despite being an Indian Kapil was a much better player of pace bowling than of spin...he was no great shakes when the ball turned. His style was such that, the faster the ball was bowled the easier for him to hit it. Wgereas Sachin as a batsman is a Buddha...nothing else need to be said. So let's not compare the individual batsmen. the idea is about analyzing innings irrespective of the batsmen who played it. Couple of points. Kapil was quite good at playing spin, there is the whole story of him and Jimmy Amarnath shouting googles (to suggest they picked googly) before hitting six off Qadir. Not sure why you think his batting was more suited to fast bowlers. Secondly his nationality has little to do with the ranking, the location and circumstance however clearly is. Whether you beleive it or not but scoring abroad in unhelpful conditions always guarantees a player more ratings. Having done stats analysis myself, I am the first one to argue that stats never tell the whole story. They are only indicators and need to be considered as just that and nothing more. If you really wanna analyze stuff then stats can help but those stats are not the ones that are generic in nature...things that can characterize the context of an innings can help. However no matter what kind of numbers you use nothing can tell you about the aesthetics of an innings I fully concur with this actually. No disagreement there.
Vijay.Sharma Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Dude' date=' respectfully, whats with the online judgemental hat that you wear sometimes? I criticize Gavaskar and you suggest its because of Raj Thackeray? I suggest playing an ace pace bowler on a bouncy track is more difficult than spinner and you think I have fallen prey to Anglo-Aussie spin?? Maybe you can just keep the point of view to just that without getting into where it is coming from?[/quote']Sorry Lurks, if I was rude or disrespectful. He seemed to bat better against fast bowlers than spinners. of course apart from Qadir he didn't face too many great tweakers.
Trichromatic Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 Dude, respectfully, whats with the online judgemental hat that you wear sometimes? I criticize Gavaskar and you suggest its because of Raj Thackeray? I suggest playing an ace pace bowler on a bouncy track is more difficult than spinner and you think I have fallen prey to Anglo-Aussie spin?? Maybe you can just keep the point of view to just that without getting into where it is coming from? Biggest factor is playing in alien conditions. Generally a batsman plays half of his test matches at home. That mean he ends up with hardly 10-20% of his matches in particular country other than home one. For a batsman from England difficulty level for playing on a dustbowl is much higher than playing on a bouncy track just because they are not used to it. They spend first 15-20 years playing in England only and then few matches in India when they get chance in international cricket. Same goes for Indian batsman. They can struggle even on good batting track with little help for bowlers while they can outperform others on rank turners. The reason why slow tracks are not considered standard for determining a batsman ability because traditionally only India and SL produced slow tracks. If you're good on slow tracks then it will mean you would struggle in almost every coming away tour. If you're not good at playing on slow tracks, then it means that you'll struggle once in 2 years or more. However, slow tracks are considered as inferior by most of the western experts which is unfair. They seem to mix slow tracks with flat tracks and don't rate runs scored in such pitches. In my opinion, batting on any bowling friendly track should be rated, but batting in unknown conditions is more important.
vvvslaxman Posted October 15, 2011 Posted October 15, 2011 mine is better Terrific pace bowling from Brett Lee
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now