Is Inzamam an all time great?!

[Manny_Pacquiao]

cant be bothered to find the post, but whoever said that fatboy is in the same category as VVS laxman hasn't got a clue what he is talking about. laxman is a true all time great, regardless of his sub 50 average. he played the greatest innings ever in the history of the sport, and he has a fantastic record against the best bowling attack of his generation. and if not for the selectors and team jerking him around by making him open the innings at the beginning of his career, he would average almost the same as dravid. actually, even tho i havent looked at the numbers, but i'm pretty sure that he averages 50+ as a middle order batsman alone.

[ganeshran]

Its my opinion, no issues if you dont agree with it.

[Utalk]

cant be bothered to find the post, but whoever said that fatboy is in the same category as VVS laxman hasn't got a clue what he is talking about. laxman is a true all time great, regardless of his sub 50 average. he played the greatest innings ever in the history of the sport, and he has a fantastic record against the best bowling attack of his generation. and if not for the selectors and team jerking him around by making him open the innings at the beginning of his career, he would average almost the same as dravid. actually, even tho i havent looked at the numbers, but i'm pretty sure that he averages 50+ as a middle order batsman alone.

VVS is my favourite batsman and a joy to watch. His record against Aus is awesome but apart from that his record against Eng (avg of 30 after 17 games) South Africa(avg of 37 after 19 games and Pak averages respectable 43 but one hundred from 15 games. His 51 tests against SA, Eng and Pak yielded 2 hundreds. Now thats far from an all time great.

[Manu80]

VVS is my favourite batsman and a joy to watch. His record against Aus is awesome but apart from that his record against Eng (avg of 30 after 17 games) South Africa(avg of 37 after 19 games and Pak averages respectable 43 but one hundred from 15 games. His 51 tests against SA, Eng and Pak yielded 2 hundreds. Now thats far from an all time great.

VVS average falls under 40 only against Pakis and England.i mean in overseas tests.You can't compare him with Inzy who saved his best against minnow countries or on Asia's road pitches.

[Utalk]

VVS average falls under 40 only against Pakis and England.i mean in overseas tests.You can't compare him with Inzy who saved his best against minnow countries or on Asia's road pitches.

Yes two hundreds in 51 games against SA,Eng and Pakistan prove that.

[pensionplan]

cant be bothered to find the post, but whoever said that fatboy is in the same category as VVS laxman hasn't got a clue what he is talking about. laxman is a true all time great, regardless of his sub 50 average. he played the greatest innings ever in the history of the sport, and he has a fantastic record against the best bowling attack of his generation. and if not for the selectors and team jerking him around by making him open the innings at the beginning of his career, he would average almost the same as dravid. actually, even tho i havent looked at the numbers, but i'm pretty sure that he averages 50+ as a middle order batsman alone.

Excellent and well said though this is not a thread about VVS. He surely is special and a true great though all this all time great blah blah and rating players is a very subjective business.

[Ultimate_Game]

VVS is a pretty good player and has a couple of things in his favor... 1. His excellent record against the best/toughest team in his era - Australia. 2. His amazing 4th innings efforts that resulted in his team winning numerous games. But to be labeled an All Time Great you have to have decent records against other teams as well and Laxman falls in that category as his performances against other decent sides such as England, SA and Pakistan aren't much to write about. VVS: A modern great - yes, an All Time Great - no.

[pensionplan]

Yes two hundreds in 51 games against SA' date='Eng and Pakistan prove that.[/quote']I do not want to digress and make this into a VVS thread. Though VVS does not have that many centuries especially a low count versus SA, Pak or Eng combined that in itself does not tell the whole story. As an example his 96 in Durban(2010) and 73 in Johannesburg(2006) both game winning knocks in the team second innings are every bit more valuable than a century and in fact the two best knocks perhaps played by any Indian batsman in SA. In essense one has to dig deep into a players career and analyze innings to exactly arrive at how they did in the context of the matches to conclude how great they really are. As some one said above he is a true great and in my books every bit as good as a Tendulkar or a Dravid without an iota of a doubt.

[Utalk]

I do not want to digress and make this into a VVS thread. Though VVS does not have that many centuries especially a low count versus SA' date=' Pak or Eng combined that in itself does not tell the whole story. As an example his 96 in Durban(2010) and 73 in Johannesburg(2006) both game winning knocks in the team second innings are every bit more valuable than a century and in fact the two best knocks perhaps played by any Indian batsman in SA. In essense one has to dig deep into a players career and analyze innings to exactly arrive at how they did in the context of the matches to conclude how great they really are. As some one said above he is a true great and in my books every bit as good as a Tendulkar or a Dravid without an iota of a doubt.[/quote'] Agree mate VVS is a special player in a sense that he thrives in a crises but like UG has said to be an all time great(subjective like you said) you have to do well in all conditions and situation.

[Manny_Pacquiao]

VVS is my favourite batsman and a joy to watch. His record against Aus is awesome but apart from that his record against Eng (avg of 30 after 17 games) South Africa(avg of 37 after 19 games and Pak averages respectable 43 but one hundred from 15 games. His 51 tests against SA, Eng and Pak yielded 2 hundreds. Now thats far from an all time great.

no batsman has a complete record. even guys like tendulkar and lara have weaker averages against certain countries. it doesnt mean that they arent capable of scoring against them. i feel very comfortable saying that laxman could easily have scored more against england and south africa because i have seen him score big hundreds against the best bowling attack - australia. laxman didnt get as many big scores against england and pakistan because those test matches were usually dominated by other batsmen. tendulkar, dravid, and ganguly dominated on tours of england from 96 til 07, and laxman batting at number 6 never had a chance to make big scores. same goes for tests against pakistan, where it was tendulkar, sehwag and dravid who would make the huge scores. its all relative.

[Utalk]

I might be wrong but doesn't tendulkar average 40+ against every country? VVS like I said is a dream player. Probably the biggest match winner in 2000s. ATG? Not sure.

[Manu80]

no batsman has a complete record. even guys like tendulkar and lara have weaker averages against certain countries. it doesnt mean that they arent capable of scoring against them. i feel very comfortable saying that laxman could easily have scored more against england and south africa because i have seen him score big hundreds against the best bowling attack - australia. laxman didnt get as many big scores against england and pakistan because those test matches were usually dominated by other batsmen. tendulkar, dravid, and ganguly dominated on tours of england from 96 til 07, and laxman batting at number 6 never had a chance to make big scores. same goes for tests against pakistan, where it was tendulkar, sehwag and dravid who would make the huge scores. its all relative.

Sorry Friend Sachin Averages more than 40 against each test playing Country.Lara's average is Sub 40 only against us.

[Utalk]

I thought sachin averaged 40+ against every country. Thanks Manu,

[Gambit]

He was ridiculed by Indian fans because Pakis tried to elevate him to certain pedestals only reserved for Sachin, Lara and maybe Ponting. That aside, he was a wonderful batsman to watch and served Pakistan wonderfully over his career. Once he grew he beard, he grew up as a batsman, took more responsibility and became what his team wanted of him.

[Hell Raiser]

Many delusional fans across the border thinks he is better than Sachin, Dravid but the reality is he isn't good enough to lace their boots. He was just a ok batsmen who was massively hyped up by his fans.

[Raghav_12]

VVS is a pretty good player and has a couple of things in his favor... 1. His excellent record against the best/toughest team in his era - Australia. 2. His amazing 4th innings efforts that resulted in his team winning numerous games. But to be labeled an All Time Great you have to have decent records against other teams as well and Laxman falls in that category as his performances against other decent sides such as England, SA and Pakistan aren't much to write about. VVS: A modern great - yes, an All Time Great - no.

Agree with post above. I am a huge fan of VVS and he has been India's best clutch player for last few years. If I have to rate three best test innings by Indian batsmen in last couple of years, I may three innings from Laxman only - Mohali, Colombo and Durban. But despite this I would say that his records has ceratin gaping holes and holes which can not be attributed to just lack of opportunity. I was very much hoping that he'll perform well in England this time and will clear many doubts. But unfortunately that didn't happen and his capabilities against swing bowling remained suspect. I have always felt that there is certain laziness in his approach to batting which on one side imparts elegance to his style, on the other side limits his success against moving ball.

[Manu80]

Many delusional fans across the border thinks he is better than Sachin, Dravid but the reality is he isn't good enough to lace their boots. He was just a ok batsmen who was massively hyped up by his fans.

+1

[Vijay.Sharma]

I consider Pakistan's greatest batsmen as - Inzamam, Javed Miandad, Saeed Anwar, Hanif Mohd - in that order. Out of the 4 I consider only Inzy and Miandad as world cricket's ATGs. As someone pointed out above Inzy had that Laxmanesque ability to win games with the tail. His cent against Bangladesh (despite them being a minnow) from a hopeless situation was a carbon copy of Lara's 153 (pls think twice before hurling abuses at me coz I aint comparing the bowling of Aus and Ban at all). Of course Inzy is not in the class of Sachin, and Lara. But who is? Inzy is not in the class of Punter. And he may not even be in the class of Steve Waugh, and Kumar Sangakkara. But I would choose him ahead of Rahul, and Kallis despite him not being as great as them on stats alone.

[Sooda]

^ Ahead of Rahul really?? Interesting. Id back Rahuls record vs higher quality attacks. Inzy is great under pressure and has some fantastic innnings when Pak have been in trouble, but as has been pointed out comes a cropper against the better attacks of his time.

[Manu80]

I consider Pakistan's greatest batsmen as - Inzamam, Javed Miandad, Saeed Anwar, Hanif Mohd - in that order. Out of the 4 I consider only Inzy and Miandad as world cricket's ATGs. As someone pointed out above Inzy had that Laxmanesque ability to win games with the tail. His cent against Bangladesh (despite them being a minnow) from a hopeless situation was a carbon copy of Lara's 153 (pls think twice before hurling abuses at me coz I aint comparing the bowling of Aus and Ban at all). Of course Inzy is not in the class of Sachin, and Lara. But who is? Inzy is not in the class of Punter. And he may not even be in the class of Steve Waugh, and Kumar Sangakkara. But I would choose him ahead of Rahul, and Kallis despite him not being as great as them on stats alone.

If you are saying Inzamam was a better player than Dravid I don't have much to say to u.