A disgraceful moment in Indian cricketing history

[Gambit]

So you are saying our young lot Kohli' date=' Raina, Sharma, Tiwary, Jadeja etc. are poor fielders. Fielding does not come natural to everyone, so you cannot compare fielding to that incident.[/quote'] All you got from what I wrote is THAT? Since I am your senior on this website, please be inspired by me and improve your comprehension skills. :--D

[Gambit]

Here we are not talking about what his character is or what he did in 2008. We are not questioning SRT's career achievement' date=' but that 1 hour of play did not set a great example to anyone. No one say CLark is god or Clark is the best batsman ever. He is just another batsman, [b']but if he can keep his interest away for team's cause why not SRT. I do not think his greatness would have been demeaned even if he has not had 100th 100.

Sure, so let me accept your point of this incident not setting a good precedent for youngsters. But why does that override the billions of other precedents he has set? For instance, in 2007, he suggested Dhoni as captain after rightfully declining captaincy. That shows humility and grace. By your logic, everytime a youngster slows down you will say it is because of Tendulkar's 'legacy'. But will you ever credit an improvement in their dedication, hunger and desire to stay at the top etc to Tendulkar? Most people pooh pooh youngsters when they write glowing tributes to Tendulkar or dedicate World Cup wins to him. Not once have you lot ever acknowledged how inspired youngsters say they are by him. Dont let one incident override everything else. Because if that is the case, I can also say that every young Indian cricketer will become a spineless yes-man to a gora coach because that is what Dravid became under Chappell. Didn't like my last sentence, did you?

[rkt.india]

All you got from what I wrote is THAT? Since I am your senior on this website' date=' please be inspired by me and improve your comprehension skills. :--D[/quote'] I got everything, but whatever you wrote is not related to what I wrote, first understand that too. I said if any other batsmen play like that for his 100, we must have him his day as well. I had criticized even GG and Kohli to play their 100s against SL even when Kohli had an SR of 90. They could accelerate but took their time for their 100s. BTW, you are only 15 months senior to me on this forum.

[rkt.india]

Sure, so let me accept your point of this incident not setting a good precedent for youngsters. But why does that override the billions of other precedents he has set? For instance, in 2007, he suggested Dhoni as captain after rightfully declining captaincy. That shows humility and grace. By your logic, everytime a youngster slows down you will say it is because of Tendulkar's 'legacy'. But will you ever credit an improvement in their dedication, hunger and desire to stay at the top etc to Tendulkar? Most people pooh pooh youngsters when they write glowing tributes to Tendulkar or dedicate World Cup wins to him. Not once have you lot ever acknowledged how inspired youngsters say they are by him. Dont let one incident override everything else. Because if that is the case, I can also say that every young Indian cricketer will become a spineless yes-man to a gora coach because that is what Dravid became under Chappell. Didn't like my last sentence, did you?

Bro.. I am no hater. I have never doubted his career, his achievements, his dedication, his 20 years of rigorous contribution to Indian cricket and for me he is the best batsmen we have ever produced, but for me he is a human too and he can make mistakes too. I don't see him as a God, but as a great cricketer and on that day what I saw was a bang your head in the wall moment. I did not mean that every young cricketer will follow what seniors do. I meant if we cannot question SRT for that innings for his 100 pursuit, we fans will not have any right to question those youngsters too if any of them do the same. We all questioned Rahul Dravid's captaincy in Chappel era, we questioned Ganguly's slow batting against Pak and captaincy in 2004 in Australia test series. We all questioned his intentions of being sit out at the last moment. We questioned Bhajji's injury when he sit out in the same test. For me this was as questionable moment as those were.

[express bowling]

What about the other examples Tendulkar sets? Running after the ball in the field at 39, incredible desire for the game and devotion towards it, humility, hours of untiring practice, ability to understand one's batting weakness and evolve and gelling equally well with contemporaries and juniors. If these aren't followed by the younger lot, why should the selfish milestone hogging habit be?

Tendulkar's dedication towards his game and the amount of hard work he puts in is indeed commendable. Sourav ganguly has often said that more than sachin's talent the fact that he has been able to actually utilize it through hours of practice and hard work, year after year, is the most praiseworthy quality about him. Younsters in the team should learn from that and I guess some players have actually. But it is also true that it is human nature to go after personal milestones at the cost of everything else and I think even you would agree that more youngsters are susceptible to picking this bad trait from Tendulkar rather than picking up his dedication and discipline. Players all over the world have this natural tendency to go for records but do not or cannot always do so because the team would not approve of it. With our team it would become difficult to laud tendulkar's milestone and discourage others on this count. Further, if we have a Tendulkar who is only dedicated and not selfish, dediation would be the only trait available to be emulated.

[Gambit]

Tendulkar's dedication towards his game and the amount of hard work he puts in is indeed commendable. Sourav ganguly has often said that more than sachin's talent the fact that he has been able to actually utilize it through hours of practice and hard work, year after year, is the most praiseworthy quality about him. Younsters in the team should learn from that and I guess some players have actually. But it is also true that it is human nature to go after personal milestones at the cost of everything else and I think even you would agree that more youngsters are susceptible to picking this bad trait from Tendulkar rather than picking up his dedication and discipline. Players all over the world have this natural tendency to go for records but do not or cannot always do so because the team would not approve of it. With our team it would become difficult to laud tendulkar's milestone and discourage others on this count. Further, if we have a Tendulkar who is only dedicated and not selfish, dediation would be the only trait available to be emulated.

Bro.. I am no hater. I have never doubted his career, his achievements, his dedication, his 20 years of rigorous contribution to Indian cricket and for me he is the best batsmen we have ever produced, but for me he is a human too and he can make mistakes too. I don't see him as a God, but as a great cricketer and on that day what I saw was a bang your head in the wall moment. I did not mean that every young cricketer will follow what seniors do. I meant if we cannot question SRT for that innings for his 100 pursuit, we fans will not have any right to question those youngsters too if any of them do the same. We all questioned Rahul Dravid's captaincy in Chappel era, we questioned Ganguly's slow batting against Pak and captaincy in 2004 in Australia test series. We all questioned his intentions of being sit out at the last moment. We questioned Bhajji's injury when he sit out in the same test. For me this was as questionable moment as those were.

Both good points. Good to see cogent arguments being presented as opposed to mindless rants. As a senior, am happy youngsters are following in my footsteps and thinking before pressing the submit button. :giggle:

[rkt.india]

Both good points. Good to see cogent arguments being presented as opposed to mindless rants. As a senior' date=' am happy youngsters are following in my footsteps and thinking before pressing the submit button. :giggle:[/quote'] This thread should be locked now. No reason discussing it till the end of our lives.:winky:

[Sachin=GOD]

This thread should be locked now. No reason discussing it till the end of our lives.:winky:

++++++++++++++++

[Bumper]

All you got from what I wrote is THAT? Since I am your senior on this website' date= please be inspired by me and improve your comprehension skills. :--D

Really, do i know you ?:haha: Welcome back! Honestly, i don't know why you guys are defending the indefensible. Just admit that SRT is selfish, isn't that the simple truth ? That does not take anything away from his contributions to the country as a cricketer, it is a flaw nevertheless in an otherwise great cricketer. And people are going to notice that black blot in a white shirt, no matter how small it is. SRT will always attract praise or criticism disproportionate to his deeds, simply because he is a superstar. I thought rkt's point about Clark is a valid one. He did not paint Clark as a saint, merely pointed out an example to set the context. It is common sense that youngsters emulate leaders they respect. Gavaskar's 36 and Azhar's fixing are not the right examples, you cannot emulate these acts without risking your career. Whereas we are so used to seeing batsmen playing for milestones, it almost takes the opposite example from a leader to change that mindset. Twisting your own example around, one could say Kapil set a bad example by playing for his records and having observed this as a youngster, SRT is emulating his hero :haha: Tendulkar topics are so polarizing. Even neutrals are pulled one way or the other. So I'll stay out of this for now, as i cannot risk anymore time drain on the phorum.

[Rick James]

Originally Posted by akshayxyz Fact: Whenever Kohli scores a 100 in pre-final league match, we fail to make it to finals. - Have you forgotten WC 2011 Opening match? India vs Bangles. Kohli - 100* Clown!

[Rick James]

No captain will declare if his teammate is on 99* if he does he is a ****-ya.

[King Tendulkar]

Michael Clark had the golden chance to score 400 and break the record of Lara, but no, he declared on 329. They had enough time to dismiss India, but still they did not want to take any chance against Indian batting on a pitch which was flattening out. This is called playing for team and leading the side with example. We know 400 was a big milestone for anyone in test cricket. A senior player needs to set the example for youngsters but that Sachin could not do. Now if any player, especially youngster plays for his 100 who can blame him. We already have an example set.

Clark is pathetic odi player, he needs to learn from sachin. Clark is not in same universe compared to sachin in tests as well. Clrak would be embarassed by above post! M Clark giving lessons to Sachin:hysterical::hysterical:

[Ponka]

What about the other examples Tendulkar sets? Running after the ball in the field at 39' date= incredible desire for the game and devotion towards it, humility, hours of untiring practice, ability to understand one's batting weakness and evolve and gelling equally well with contemporaries and juniors. If these aren't followed by the younger lot, why should the selfish milestone hogging habit be? Young players aren't mindless robots who will do whatever their seniors will. No one emulated Gavaskar's 36*. No Indian bowler puffed to their wicket milestone after observing Kapil do so. Tendulkar did not sell the country after watching Azhar do so. And funny that Michael Clarke has become a paragon of virtue now. This is a guy who got into a fight with his own team mate in the dressing room(Simon Katich). He's a guy who had a fight with Symonds. He's the one who took that blatant grounded catch off Ganguly at Sydney 2008 and told the umpire to take his word. Great example to follow for sure.

Ridiculous logic in bold. So you're saying if he's doing that he should be forgiven for his other wrong acts? He's paid to play cricket. He chose to be a cricketer by himself. Billions of Indian didnt go to his home and begged him to play cricket. He's a professional cricketer. If he's running after the ball at 39 than its because he has decided to play cricket at this age and he's getting paid for it. He's getting paid for all the good work. He's not getting paid for his bad work. Let me put this in a more simpler way. If you work in a company and complete 20 projects in less time. Company appreciates it and pays you income and sometimes bonus for that. That's part of your job. If you dont complete the 21st project and you lose that customer, company can fire you if that customer is a big one. Especially in West such as US/Canada or in Europe, you cant just go and say...Since I completed 20 projects therefore this should be neglected. Your boss will say "Listen, you were paid to complete those 20 projects on time! you decided to take them on and you were paid - That was your job. However not completing a project is not a part of your job and hence you're fired". Similarly Tendulkar is hired to make India win. He's paid for his batting and all that he brings to the team. He chose to be a cricketer as a start. Now if he has made India lose, that means he hasn't done his job and should be fired or dropped from the team. To raise that he has made India won 20 odd times, so what? That's his job. That what he's supposed to do. However he's not supposed to do is make records for himself while his team is going down!

[rkt.india]

Clark is pathetic odi player' date=' he needs to learn from sachin. Clark is not in same universe compared to sachin in tests as well. Clrak would be embarassed by above post! M Clark giving lessons to Sachin:hysterical::hysterical:[/quote'] May not give a lesson batting in ODIs and tests, but at least Clark showed he did not care for a milestone ahead of his his team's interest which only one cricketer has achieved in more than 100 years of test cricket. :--D

[Roshanrocks]

Conspiracy theory Clarke knew that whatever he scored will be looked down upon as dadagiri over India's pathetic bowling and he needed to do something to keep his name in memory for the future. So he played the ace card, adopted a "holier than thou" attitude, declared with himself on 329. This achieved two things. 1. He would be remembered as someone who put the team before personal milestones. His name wud be used as an example for future generations. 2. Since he did not overtake Bradman, he would be viewed as a very respected person who valued the Don as the epitome in batsmanship, and thus didnt find himself worthy of overtaking the great man's highest score. EK teer se do shikaar _____ But we Indians will make sure he is most remembered for THAT catching incident :giggle:

[rkt.india]

Conspiracy theory Clarke knew that whatever he scored will be looked down upon as dadagiri over India's pathetic bowling and he needed to do something to keep his name in memory for the future. So he played the ace card, adopted a "holier than thou" attitude, declared with himself on 329. _____ But we Indians will make sure he is most remembered for THAT catching incident :giggle:

Agree. Bangladesh had Garner, Marshall, Akram, Murli in their bowling ranks for sure.:haha:

[CSK Fan]

Ridiculous logic in bold. So you're saying if he's doing that he should be forgiven for his other wrong acts? He's paid to play cricket. He chose to be a cricketer by himself. Billions of Indian didnt go to his home and begged him to play cricket. He's a professional cricketer. If he's running after the ball at 39 than its because he has decided to play cricket at this age and he's getting paid for it. He's getting paid for all the good work. He's not getting paid for his bad work. Let me put this in a more simpler way. If you work in a company and complete 20 projects in less time. Company appreciates it and pays you income and sometimes bonus for that. That's part of your job. If you dont complete the 21st project and you lose that customer' date= company can fire you if that customer is a big one. Especially in West such as US/Canada or in Europe, you cant just go and say...Since I completed 20 projects therefore this should be neglected. Your boss will say "Listen, you were paid to complete those 20 projects on time! you decided to take them on and you were paid - That was your job. However not completing a project is not a part of your job and hence you're fired". Similarly Tendulkar is hired to make India win. He's paid for his batting and all that he brings to the team. He chose to be a cricketer as a start. Now if he has made India lose, that means he hasn't done his job and should be fired or dropped from the team. To raise that he has made India won 20 odd times, so what? That's his job. That what he's supposed to do. However he's not supposed to do is make records for himself while his team is going down!

But you have missed the point about him going out of the way to help out youngsters. Also I can bring out dozens of examples for every batsmen where they failed to make their team win because of one reason or the other. But for some reason your special bile is reserved for Sachin only. Sachin does not need to go out of his way to advise youngsters and help them out. Yet youngster after youngster have come openly telling about the value he adds to the team. A youngster needs guidance no matter how talented he is, sometimes in the middle too. Amir and Umar are prime examples of what happens to talent without guidance. You cannot deny Sachin his contribution to the team

[CSK Fan]

Really, do i know you ?:haha: Welcome back! Honestly, i don't know why you guys are defending the indefensible. Just admit that SRT is selfish, isn't that the simple truth ? That does not take anything away from his contributions to the country as a cricketer, it is a flaw nevertheless in an otherwise great cricketer. And people are going to notice that black blot in a white shirt, no matter how small it is. SRT will always attract praise or criticism disproportionate to his deeds, simply because he is a superstar. .

See this is the problem some of us Sachin supporters have. You want things painted in black and white. You call Sachin selfish for 1 or 2 innings he played. Yet you forget the countless times he got out in the 90s playing attacking shots. The time he came back two days after his father's death to play. the times he played with a broken bat, with a broken nose against Waqar. When you use the blanket term selfish, you are equally guilty as us blind supporters, though in the other direction Guess like Outsider, we should be disecting the innings, not the man

[express bowling]

So you're saying if he's doing that he should be forgiven for his other wrong acts? He's paid to play cricket. He chose to be a cricketer by himself. Billions of Indian didnt go to his home and begged him to play cricket. He's a professional cricketer. If he's running after the ball at 39 than its because he has decided to play cricket at this age and he's getting paid for it. He's getting paid for all the good work. He's not getting paid for his bad work. Let me put this in a more simpler way. If you work in a company and complete 20 projects in less time. Company appreciates it and pays you income and sometimes bonus for that. That's part of your job. If you dont complete the 21st project and you lose that customer' date= company can fire you if that customer is a big one. Especially in West such as US/Canada or in Europe, you cant just go and say...Since I completed 20 projects therefore this should be neglected. Your boss will say "Listen, you were paid to complete those 20 projects on time! you decided to take them on and you were paid - That was your job. However not completing a project is not a part of your job and hence you're fired". Similarly Tendulkar is hired to make India win. He's paid for his batting and all that he brings to the team. He chose to be a cricketer as a start. Now if he has made India lose, that means he hasn't done his job and should be fired or dropped from the team. To raise that he has made India won 20 odd times, so what? That's his job. That what he's supposed to do. However he's not supposed to do is make records for himself while his team is going down!

You have raised a very valid point about the treatment and assessment of sports persons in professional team sports. I have said the same thing previously. A player has been included in the team to do a job. If he performs well and does his duty then he will be praised. If he does his duty exceedingly well, he will receive bonus, etc. If he fails then he will be held responsible. Good past performances does not absolve a professional of his current responsibilities. Bottomline is doing the job in the current match. But another point has to be kept in mind as well. Not all professional sportsmen are able to convert their talent to actual performances, especially over a 20 year period. Tendulkar has been able to do this because of his dedication and discipline. That point needs to be recognized as a positive professional quality. So praise this quality and criticize his selfishness and assess him in totality.

[Sachinism]

If we could read Manoj Tiwary's mind :diablo:

You don't need to read his mind, just follow him on twitter @tiwarymanoj Dis is how I'm feelin now ... http://yfrog.com/mo12aybj Poor guy. This was after the Pakistan game