akshayxyz Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Might be , When Fielding team goes in to bat in, it reduces 1-2 overs from days play. Even that taken into consideration Dravid should have given 2 overs more. innings change over time is always taken care of, when timing declarations. 1 batsman change over time would not have costed additional 2 overs. But in all honesty this issue never bothers me. We won, both of them sorted out their issues. What bothers me is saying only Dravid cared for team , Sachin was selfish and slowed down for personal record , when he hardly did. this.
velu Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 innings change over time is always taken care of, when timing declarations. 1 batsman change over time would not have costed additional 2 overs. this. agree.. but assume if you are captain and you want to send the opposition for at-least 15 overs , when some batsmen gets out , you might declare :--D but i am sure if incase we had not declared till sachin gets his 200* , if he had taken time again dravd might have got the bashin :--D remember dinesh karthick got some stick for playing aggressively to deny sachins century
akshayxyz Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 nope.. so we will miss atleast 1 over for the new batsmen for getting in to face the ball and he also needs to rotate the strike.. what i meant was we were already at the borderline area of declaration , once uv got out we declared :bow: and about the chart , its not mine , i quite remember abt it bcoz we had few had arguments abt it.. As per this - timed out limit is 3 minutes. http://www.lords.org/laws-and-spirit/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-31-timed-out,57,AR.html Anyway, 2 or 3 minutes is non-issue..the point was - no way we would have lost 2 overs (3-4 balls at max). And it looked like Dravid/team-mgmt declared 3 overs earlier than they promised before. They should have stuck by the pre-decided clock-time and not #of wickets. And it was not an ODI, that timing of declaration had to be revised every other over (someone mentioned 2-3 messages were sent).
akshayxyz Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 agree.. but assume if you are captain and you want to send the opposition for at-least 15 overs , when some batsmen gets out , you might declare :--D but i am sure if incase we had not declared till sachin gets his 200* , if he had taken time again dravd might have got the bashin :--D It has been already mentioned numerous times - declaring after individual milestones is not something unheard of. And there was mis-communication of declaration timing in this particular case...something was decided at tea time, and then updated messages were sent in the middle.. as if they were chasing some D/L target. I do not remember many people bashing Dravid, in fact he has been placed at the peak of sainthood - in the matters of selfishness/team-man-ship, based on this one stint - which was more of a sign of indecisiveness, more than anything else. But Sachin has been given too much of it, just because he confessed a bit of disappointment - when he was asked about it. remember dinesh karthick got some stick for playing aggressively to deny sachins century :offtopic: Still, that was mostly done by keyboard warriors. IIRC, some certain player in the middle suggested Karthick to continue playing his natural game. Especially, when he had the 'authority' and enough time to command the junior around.. :D.
velu Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 As per this - timed out limit is 3 minutes. http://www.lords.org/laws-and-spirit/laws-of-cricket/laws/law-31-timed-out,57,AR.html Anyway, 2 or 3 minutes is non-issue..the point was - no way we would have lost 2 overs (3-4 balls at max). And it looked like Dravid/team-mgmt declared 3 overs earlier than they promised before. They should have stuck by the pre-decided clock-time and not #of wickets. And it was not an ODI, that timing of declaration had to be revised every other over (someone mentioned 2-3 messages were sent). how we had not last 2 overs ?? we might have lost 1 over for the new batsmen to get in and taking guard , and its not liek sachin will hit a six in the next ball itself.. also i dont think dravid/team might have declared on the set time and its a joke, man imagine if we had declared when sachin was at 198** , i bet whole sachin world will be :whine: Edit:- Again this is not a big issue and media has overblown it , and also reiterating it again , sachin is disappointed and he has every right to think his 200 is robbed.
akshayxyz Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 how we had not last 2 overs ?? we might have lost 1 over for the new batsmen to get in and taking guard , and its not liek sachin will hit a six in the next ball itself.. also i dont think dravid/team might have declared on the set time and its a joke, man imagine if we had declared when sachin was at 198** , i bet whole sachin world will be :whine: Edit:- Again this is not a big issue and media has overblown it , and also reiterating it again , sachin is disappointed and he has every right to think his 200 is robbed. I also understand this is not as big an issue as it has been made out to be. Anyways, this is just to get the facts right... batsman change-over would have costed only 3-4 balls at max, what would have happened in the middle you never know. And when I said - declare by the clock - I am not suggesting to go by the seconds/minutes-hand...I meant, there was still enough time to bowl another couple of overs - based on what was decided earlier... And I would be pleased to see other examples of such selfishness/team-man-ship, where the team/captain has declared with batsman in the middle at 95+, 195+... in fact there are countless examples of declaration immediately after batsman crossing the milestone or getting out trying. So, this stand out example of Dravid can be either show-off or stupidity (going against culture of cricketing fraternity)... I am settling for human error, out of indecisiveness. I think one thing we can agree upon is, we do not know everything about the dressing-room/cricketers' culture. We have to go by the experts, who have spent decades in the middle (Wright, Gavaskar etc..), and as per them it was not very wise decision, but certainly not a blunder. P.S. Before you bring Clarke's recent example, it is not valid, as he himself was the decision maker.. would he have done for some other batsman in the middle, w/o consulting?
master22 Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 I also understand this is not as big an issue as it has been made out to be. Anyways, this is just to get the facts right... batsman change-over would have costed only 3-4 balls at max, what would have happened in the middle you never know. And when I said - declare by the clock - I am not suggesting to go by the seconds/minutes-hand...I meant, there was still enough time to bowl another couple of overs - based on what was decided earlier... And I would be pleased to see other examples of such selfishness/team-man-ship, where the team/captain has declared with batsman in the middle at 95+, 195+... in fact there are countless examples of declaration immediately after batsman crossing the milestone or getting out trying. So, this stand out example of Dravid can be either show-off or stupidity (going against culture of cricketing fraternity)... I am settling for human error, out of indecisiveness. I think one thing we can agree upon is, we do not know everything about the dressing-room/cricketers' culture. We have to go by the experts, who have spent decades in the middle (Wright, Gavaskar etc..), and as per them it was not very wise decision, but certainly not a blunder. P.S. Before you bring Clarke's recent example, it is not valid, as he himself was the decision maker.. would he have done for some other batsman in the middle, w/o consulting? Ganguly once declared when Dravid was on 91 in sydney,only difference was that dravid dint cry out to the media. :P
velu Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 So, this stand out example of Dravid can be either show-off or stupidity (going against culture of cricketing fraternity)... I am settling for human error, out of indecisiveness. I think one thing we can agree upon is, we do not know everything about the dressing-room/cricketers' culture. We have to go by the experts, who have spent decades in the middle (Wright, Gavaskar etc..), and as per them it was not very wise decision, but certainly not a Bolded part. Its indecisiveness which caused this , but i dont see it as an error. Silly issue overblown. Imagine sehwag who got at 195 to a full toss from a pie chucker bowler . :--D Ganguly once declared when Dravid was on 91 in sydney' date='only difference was that dravid dint cry out to the media. :P[/quote'] Thats grown man for you. :hatsoff:
Number Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Only reason we declared so late in Sydeny was Dravid was nearing century. He played quite fast though. on 91 he got hit on head , his ear started blooding so Ganguly called it a declaration.
akshayxyz Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Silly issue overblown. Imagine sehwag who got at 195 to a full toss from a pie chucker bowler . :--D So? How is it same as declaring at 194*?
velu Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 So? How is it same as declaring at 194*? err.. dont take evrything seriously bro :sherlock: in my previous post i meant anyone who miss a double will feel disappointed and in shewag's case it will be more bcz of the way he missed it:--D
Andrew Peter Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Ganguly once declared when Dravid was on 91 in sydney' date='only difference was that dravid dint cry out to the media. :P[/quote'] Ganguly also declared when Sachin was on 241* . Sachin was well set and could have easily crawled his way to 250-275 or even take a chance to become 1st Triple centurion from India but the innings was declared in best interest of the team , a decision that makes sense to everyone unlike the dumb blunder of an error made by Dravid. Never saw Sachin crying to the media about being declared at 241* or his fans whining about it .
pensionplan Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Looks like there is a general feeling even with in Sachin's fanatics that he indeed does play for his records or a milestone even when certain team goals are compromised. When one reads some of these posts it is not hard to make that out with his own fanboys trying so hard to defend him. I never see the same issues with players such as RD, VVS, Lara, Ponting etc. And to add to that Sachin delaying his retirement from ODI's when that place can be better utilized to groom a youngster for the long run after the WC win in 2011 clearly suggests that SRT does indeed play for records no matter how hard he tries to deny it. It is more evident in him than any other player I have seen thus far even surpassing his mentor Gavaskar that he indeed is obsessed with records playing under the wrap of love for the game. Who does not play for the love of the game?
SachDan Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Looks like there is a general feeling even with in Sachin's fanatics that he indeed does play for his records or a milestone even when certain team goals are compromised. When one reads some of these posts it is not hard to make that out with his own fanboys trying so hard to defend him. I never see the same issues with players such as RD, VVS, Lara, Ponting etc. And to add to that Sachin delaying his retirement from ODI's when that place can be better utilized to groom a youngster for the long run after the WC win in 2011 clearly suggests that SRT does indeed play for records no matter how hard he tries to deny it. It is more evident in him than any other player I have seen thus far even surpassing his mentor Gavaskar that he indeed is obsessed with records playing under the wrap of love for the game. Who does not play for the love of the game? I'm disappointed to see this kinda post from "a huge SRT fan" :((
SachDan Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Too bad Tendulkar did not get the opportunity to slow down near a 300 due to his incompetency to make big scores. :hysterical: Who knows may be Sachin is letting Amit Mishra reach that magical figure before him. Afterall the man with more integrity and dedication than Sachin predicted few years back Mishra to end up with more than 300 wickets :cantstop:
yoda Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 lets bust this myth (once again ! ) that Tendulkar was crawling his way to a 200 in Multan . Here is how his last 100 runs were scored and the teams score at that point. Figures in brackets are the no.of balls he faced. 430 - 93(203) 543 -144(290) 675 -194(348) So from those numbers we find that his last 50 runs were scored in 58 balls and this includes the supposed slow down for the "landmark" of 150. That amounts to a strike rate of 86.2% - exactly the same as his ODI S/R. So turns out that this crawling BS is a result of shouting long and hard. Let's look at the last 2 overs he faced once he got to the 190s, shall we? :winky: 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2 4 runs in 8 deliveries, 6 more needed so 12 deliveries. Assuming 1/2 the strike rate, 4 more overs. Sure why not, let's give our bowlers 4 less overs to have a go @ the Pakistani batsmen towards the end of day so that the record accumulator can get one more. Oh BTW, this not knowing if it was really going to be 4 overs or it could be more or ofc less. Who cares about the test anyways, let the records get accumulated as they should. :two_thumbs_up:
akshayxyz Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 Abey yodey, you still have balls to harp about slowing down?? Did you miss how the myth about - team RR vs Sachin approaching 100 was busted... Hi lafandar babu.. Thanks for the link, and allowing us to make a fool of your highness. from Sachin's 79 to 100... Sachin SR - 80 Sehwag SR 57 Guess who was responsible for drop in team's run rate..and what was the milestone Sehwag chasing.. 275??? :hmmm: :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical:
Mariyam Posted March 31, 2012 Posted March 31, 2012 How many of you have read Wright's book? Off topic, but coincidentally, Richard Wright ( Black American writer/poet) has authored a book called ' The Outsider'. It is 'heavy' and I left it mid way. It is however, a very impactful book.
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