Is Zak really a rolemodel/Mentor our bowlers need???

[maniac]

The thread about Rahul Dravid giving tips to Umesh Yadav inspired me to write this .... Forget about being a batsman or a bowler,Look at the way Rahul has shown commitment and kept himself fit over the years. On the other hand Look at Zak,definetely a wonderful bowler and obviously is a good enough on-field mentor while playing, as our attack generally looks decent in test cricket when Zak is in the team but is he a good role model??? The guy is always half-fit,injury prone etc,Poor out-fielder,debatable commitment with the bat How can he groom any young bowler or the question is apart from bowling tips how seriously are other young bowlers going to take him when he gives them tips to succeed at international level?? No wonder our bowlers like RP Singh,Sreeshanth,P.K go in the same route...the only difference being Zak is good enough to make a comeback where as they have almost finished their careers. Umesh Yadav obviously is a different bowler to Zak in may ways and also looks like a natural athlete compared to Zak in terms of fielding etc ,but apart from on-field strategies in what way can he look upto our premier bowler??? Look what working with Dale Steyn albeit for a very very short period did to Ishanth...Eventually only the pace remained but even he acknowledged that his resurgence in WI was due to Steyn. The bowling talent in this country is there in plenty....but it''s not pace or skills our bowlers need,they need a role model.

[Lurker]

Look at Zak,definetely a wonderful bowler and obviously is a good enough on-field mentor while playing as our attack generally looks decent in test cricket when Zak is in the team but is he a good role model???

In the heydays of Irfan Pathan, he had once credited Zaheer Khan as one of the key reason why he (Irfan) had been successful. He had mentioned how Zaheer would egg Irfan on asking him to keep attacking and not take a back seat regardless of who the batsman was. At the time I found it a little too hard to beleive as Zaheer had not become the bowler he eventually did but he certainly had enough to bolster Irfan. Point being yes Zaheer can act as a role model. But it is also for the players to learn. Kohli learns from Sachin, Umesh doesnt from Zaheer. Is it Sachin's credit or Zaheer's fault?

[maniac]

In the heydays of Irfan Pathan, he had once credited Zaheer Khan as one of the key reason why he (Irfan) had been successful. He had mentioned how Zaheer would egg Irfan on asking him to keep attacking and not take a back seat regardless of who the batsman was. At the time I found it a little too hard to beleive as Zaheer had not become the bowler he eventually did but he certainly had enough to bolster Irfan. Point being yes Zaheer can act as a role model. But it is also for the players to learn. Kohli learns from Sachin, Umesh doesnt from Zaheer. Is it Sachin's credit or Zaheer's fault?

Zaheer Khan is a tremondous bowler and what we have seen of him is a wonderful thinker of the game,but is that enough??? Well let us think for a sec that Umesh is a quick learner and he picks how to set up a batsmen from Zaheer....do you think that is enough for a young bowler???A half-fit Zak makes it to England(Not entirely his fault though) gets injured in the first session....that for me was the turning point of the entire series....what example does it set to others??? Look at someone like Dale Steyn,he plays IPL and then goes back and plays across all formats consistently....Even someone like Umar Gul....never seen him injured....Look at Peter Siddle....Apart from Steyn,Zak might be a much better bowler than the others mentioned but just look at the value they add to their respective teams by always being available. I have nothing against Zak but Virat Kohli has SRT,Dravid...I won't say Laxman here but these 2 guys have had the commitment and dedication to go along with their skills to have lasted this long and played consistently.so he has plenty to learn from there same cannot be said of younger bowlers to expect from Zak

[yoda]

You got to work with what you have. We can't import role models. We can however bridge the gap by hiring competent bowling coaches.

[Lurker]

Well let us think for a sec that Umesh is a quick learner and he picks how to set up a batsmen from Zaheer....do you think that is enough for a young bowler???A half-fit Zak makes it to England(Not entirely his fault though) gets injured in the first session....that for me was the turning point of the entire series....what example does it set to others??? Look at someone like Dale Steyn,he plays IPL and then goes back and plays across all formats consistently....Even someone like Umar Gul....never seen him injured....Look at Peter Siddle....Apart from Steyn,Zak might be a much better bowler than the others mentioned but just look at the value they add to their respective teams by always being available.

Oh I think you are 50-50 here. You are absolutely right that Zaheer Khan shouldnt have played if half-fit, or for that matter a clearly visible RP Singh. However being a role model in Indian context does not include sacrificing your own place for greater good of the country. I am sure you know this by now, if not I am not gonna take you that route either lol..had enough of that nonsense. What I am alluding to as a role model is bowling skills, setting up batsmen, leading by example to other bowlers, egging them on and adding insights like pitch conditions, late swing that may come in handy.

[maniac]

Oh I think you are 50-50 here. You are absolutely right that Zaheer Khan shouldnt have played if half-fit, or for that matter a clearly visible RP Singh. However being a role model in Indian context does not include sacrificing your own place for greater good of the country. I am sure you know this by now, if not I am not gonna take you that route either lol..had enough of that nonsense. What I am alluding to as a role model is bowling skills, setting up batsmen, leading by example to other bowlers, egging them on and adding insights like pitch conditions, late swing that may come in handy.

Agree with that part...Fitness obviously we have already covered that....I am alluding to fact that I have never seen his commitment with the bat and his out-fielding is atrocious,So should that be the precedent we set to the next generation. Loot at WC QF Bret Lee's dive when the match was almost slipping away....would Zak have done that....Obviouslt Lee is a better athlete than Zak but I am talking about all-round commitment.It is time we stop giving him a free ride.

[maniac]

You got to work with what you have. We can't import role models. We can however bridge the gap by hiring competent bowling coaches.

Bowling Coaches may enhance your skills but they won't inspire but you are right about not being able to import role models....unfortunately that is a true statement

[chainsmoker1985]

Definitely, Zak can definitely play for another World Cup.... He will get fit in coming days, don't worry about that. The thing about Zak is- on important occasions, when you want him fit, like during the World Cup and Australia tests, he will stay fit on time and can stay super-fit for months and months

[Deleted_User_1]

Definitely, Zak can definitely play for another World Cup.... He will get fit in coming days, don't worry about that. The thing about Zak is- on important occasions, when you want him fit, like during the World Cup and Australia tests, he will stay fit on time and can stay super-fit for months and months

Yeah Zakass did a lot in Oz!!!

[Old guy]

zack is finished imo :( this australian tour showeed it he showed glipses of his form but most of the time he wasnt fit enough to give his all and in the end got injured again so he owuld have to start again..and u know how it ended this time i think he is a good role model but problem is people forget he cant bowl for ishant or others :winky: some one like sreesanth always performed better under him for some reason but not ishant also look at the mindset of these bowlers i was unlucky cant see how any one can help him with this attitude.

[rkt.india]

Zak is a good bowler, but there is nothing great in him to be a role model like Imran, McGrath, Holding, and Marshall became.

[chainsmoker1985]

No bloody need for Mcgraths, Imrans, Holdings and Marshalls.... I want those players who can win most no of matches for my country and win my country world-cups and take my country to No. 1 position in tests. Zak has done it really successfully so far. Zak was the back-bone of our bowling in the World-cup in Subcontinent. Bowlers like Munaf, Nehra, Sreesanth were included and excluded of the team. But Zak was steady throughout the WC and stuck to his task. Zak was one BIG BIG reason why India reached the no. 1 spot in ICC test rankings. I don't fecking care if he was or wasn't as great as some of the Legends. But he is a great bowler for the Indians.

[chainsmoker1985]

Even at this age and half fit Zak can bowl faster and more effectively as compared to some of our young trundler horses

[Old guy]

Even at this age and half fit Zak can bowl faster and more effectively as compared to some of our young trundler horses

yep much better then pathan anyday :agree:

[rkt.india]

No bloody need for Mcgraths, Imrans, Holdings and Marshalls.... I want those players who can win most no of matches for my country and win my country world-cups and take my country to No. 1 position in tests. .

Your are talking like McGrath, Imran, Holding, Marshalls did not that. They did that and much more than that. Zak is a great bowler for Indian standards, but if we are to become a force like WI and Aus in international cricket, we will need much more than just Zak, a better bowler than Zak. He was instrumental in our WC win. No one can deny that, but just a WC win does not make us a dominant force. We will have to win consistently in every condition and for that just Zak is not enough. Zak was not much better than a rookie Yadav in Aus test and ODI series. Zak has set an example of come back after being dropped because of poor work ethics and bowlers like RPS and Sreesanth can follow him and take inspiration.

[chainsmoker1985]

yep much better then pathan anyday :agree:

Yea, Pathan, VK, PK and Mithun as well. even the speeds which Dinda was bowling in Asia cup 132-135 k, what the hell

[Old guy]

Yea' date=' Pathan, VK, PK and Mithun as well. even the speeds which Dinda was bowling in Asia cup 132-135 k, what the hell[/quote'] in dinda's defence i have seen he usually likes to bowl longer spells .. and we did saw some quick bouncers and did reasonably well gainst pakistan would like to see some more matches before commenting seen enough of vinay and pathan to tell that they are crap nothing can save them

[rkt.india]

in dinda's defence i have seen he usually likes to bowl longer spells .. and we did saw some quick bouncers and did reasonably well gainst pakistan would like to see some more matches before commenting seen enough of vinay and pathan to tell that they are crap nothing can save them

Dinda is not a genuine pacer like Yadav or Aaron. Even Shami and Nechim are not as quick as Yadav and Aaron. They all are fast medium range, between 135-145K and Dinda is slowest of them right now. I saw Shami bowling faster than Dinda in Duleep trophy final and looked more threatening than Dinda due to his good action to get movement away from the batsmen and was able to bring the ball back to batsmen as well time to time.

[saneindian]

Doesn't really matter what we the forum warriors think. For the current pacers and the upcoming ones, he is a role model and will remain one. May not be the fittest one around with the best work ethic, but who else do we have? If we had another bowlers with similar skills and intelligence, our bowling unit would be much better. BTW OP, would you also say VVS should not be a role model for our upcoming batsmen given his poor fitness?

[rkt.india]

Doesn't really matter what we the forum warriors think. For the current pacers and the upcoming ones, he is a role model and will remain one. May not be the fittest one around with the best work ethic, but who else do we have? If we had another bowlers with similar skills and intelligence, our bowling unit would be much better. BTW OP, would you also say VVS should not be a role model for our upcoming batsmen given his poor fitness?

Agree. But in VVS' case, we have better role models in SRT and RD and youngsters barely see anyone beyond these two.