Ganguly as test captain : Overrated?

[Number]

:WTF: Ashwin ?

[saket123]

your list is missing a few not named SRT. yes RD is overrated, so is Kumble, Sehwag, Kapil, ... all except SRT. :winky: Azhar was overrated? Gavaskar? You are a funny guy. :giggle:

When I use the term over-rated.. it doesn't mean they are otherwise worthless.. It only means they are over-rated... they maybe be good.. but not as much as the hype surrounding them.

[pensionplan]

Ganguly certainly is not a great captain, not even close. He had a good run when he had players like RD and VVS performing at their peak plus there was always SRT to go along with it not to speak of AK and a decent bowler at the time in HS.

[Old guy]

Ganguly certainly is not a great captain' date=' not even close. He had a good run when he had players like RD and VVS performing at their peak plus there was always SRT to go along with it not to speak of AK and a decent bowler at the time in HS.[/quote'] but thats the case with every captain...how else do u win matches its the players who perform am i missing something ? :hmmm: how come they started performing as a team only after he became captain how come we only started playing with belief after he became captain ? this is how it works.. ur team performs..ur good captain like dhoni was when it does not ur mad man.. like dhoni is now :P captain does have to take responsibility and for that he is rewarded also he gets best out of his players...trusting ur bowlers and giving them confidence helps them thts hwy some bowlers were developed under him and one under dhoni anyway this wasnt a comparison thread now let me give naother example.. clarke declared behind..hilfy comes and get 4 wickets they win now wht if hilfy didnt performed and they would ve lost? is clarke jsut a lucky cos hilfy was at his best there?

[vamos_rafa]

but thats the case with every captain...how else do u win matches its the players who perform am i missing something ? :hmmm: how come they started performing as a team only after he became captain how come we only started playing with belief after he became captain ? this is how it works.. ur team performs..ur good captain like dhoni was when it does not ur mad man.. like dhoni is now :P captain does have to take responsibility and for that he is rewarded also he gets best out of his players...trusting ur bowlers and giving them confidence helps them thts hwy some bowlers were developed under him and one under dhoni anyway this wasnt a comparison thread now let me give naother example.. clarke declared behind..hilfy comes and get 4 wickets they win now wht if hilfy didnt performed and they would ve lost? is clarke jsut a lucky cos hilfy was at his best there?

Could not agree with you any more. Captain takes decisions but it's success or failure depends upon the ability of the team. The classic example is MSD. He was lauded as the greatest modern day captain by not only the fans but also by Ian Chappell. But, how badly have the tables turned for him.

[pensionplan]

but thats the case with every captain...how else do u win matches its the players who perform am i missing something ? :hmmm: how come they started performing as a team only after he became captain how come we only started playing with belief after he became captain ? this is how it works.. ur team performs..ur good captain like dhoni was when it does not ur mad man.. like dhoni is now :P captain does have to take responsibility and for that he is rewarded also he gets best out of his players...trusting ur bowlers and giving them confidence helps them thts hwy some bowlers were developed under him and one under dhoni anyway this wasnt a comparison thread now let me give naother example.. clarke declared behind..hilfy comes and get 4 wickets they win now wht if hilfy didnt performed and they would ve lost? is clarke jsut a lucky cos hilfy was at his best there?

Without a doubt a captain is as good as his players. That is a fact. No one can deny that. But with the available resources one needs to get the desired results sometimes beating expectations for a captain to be rated highly. I do not see that with Ganguly. With the talents Ganguly had from 2001-2005 he has underachieved all things considered. For all the accolades he gets it is Dravid who got us the first abroad Test series wins in Eng, WI after decades in 2006/2007. It is under MSD we won a WC and got the No.1 Test rankings. In the end results do matter. Simple as that. I think outside of subjective stuff like he built the team (sorry he has nothing to do with VVS, RD being great or SRT or AK performing, they all were at their relative best at the time and would have performed regardless of Ganguly or someone else taking over), got the best out of his bowlers etc etc the results are not good enough for Ganguly to be rated a great skipper.

[Clarke]

^^ What talents ? Batting alone won't win you anything and we had the likes of Agarkar & Balaji as our new ball bowlers. Jumbo, with all his consistency, wasn't Warne/Murali. You reckon Dhoni could have had India as #1 & World Champions against those rampaging Aussies of early 2000s ?

[Crookbond]

Just because Dhoni won WC 2011, now Dhoni has had the best team in the world. :headshake:

[PaceAttack]

Ganguly certainly is not a great captain' date=' not even close. He had a good run when he had players like RD and VVS performing at their peak plus there was always SRT to go along with it not to speak of AK and a decent bowler at the time in HS.[/quote'] Come on people. Ganguly was the only person who challenged the foreigners in their own backyard. Most of our previous and current team went with a mindset of tourists. Ganguly was the only captain who took it seriously and won games outside India. Name me one Indian captain who has done this other than Ganguly.?

[Trichromatic]

Come on people. Ganguly was the only person who challenged the foreigners in their own backyard. Most of our previous and current team went with a mindset of tourists. Ganguly was the only captain who took it seriously and won games outside India. Name me one Indian captain who has done this other than Ganguly.?

Dravid?

[PaceAttack]

Dravid?

Really? I can't remember much of Dravid's success outside India except 1 or 2 wins. Given his record in the world cup matches as a captain and his guttless approach towards Greg chappel, I don't think Dravid qualifies as one of the best captain for India.

[Clarke]

Really? I can't remember much of Dravid's success outside India except 1 or 2 wins. Given his record in the world cup matches as a captain and his guttless approach towards Greg chappel' date=' I don't think Dravid qualifies as one of the best captain for India.[/quote'] :giggle: Captain ignoramus, two test series wins after a gap of 2-3 decades ?

[Trichromatic]

Come on people. Ganguly was the only person who challenged the foreigners in their own backyard. Most of our previous and current team went with a mindset of tourists. Ganguly was the only captain who took it seriously and won games outside India. Name me one Indian captain who has done this other than Ganguly.?

Really? I can't remember much of Dravid's success outside India except 1 or 2 wins. Given his record in the world cup matches as a captain and his guttless approach towards Greg chappel' date= I don't think Dravid qualifies as one of the best captain for India.

I didn't say that Dravid was best captain of India. I was replying to the part where you mentioned that Ganguly was only captain who took it seriously and won matches outside India.

[yoda]

Come on people. Ganguly was the only person who challenged the foreigners in their own backyard. Most of our previous and current team went with a mindset of tourists. Ganguly was the only captain who took it seriously and won games outside India. Name me one Indian captain who has done this other than Ganguly.?

What does challenged mean? How many test series did we win in their own backyard. Yes, we were competitive and ofc given our recent drubbing it looks even better, but it is not like we went to countries and smashed the cr@p out of teams and won series after series or several WCs under Ganguly.

[J P K]

^^ What talents ? Batting alone won't win you anything and we had the likes of Agarkar & Balaji as our new ball bowlers. Jumbo, with all his consistency, wasn't Warne/Murali. You reckon Dhoni could have had India as #1 & World Champions against those rampaging Aussies of early 2000s ?

agarkar balaji r u kidding ? zak nehra bowling 140+ in nehra case he bowled at 150 we had experienced javagal srinath too bhajji murli karthick and kumble off ,leg and left arm spin dada had better bowling attack than dhoni

[Clarke]

agarkar balaji r u kidding ? zak nehra bowling 140+ in nehra case he bowled at 150 we had experienced javagal srinath too bhajji murli karthick and kumble off ,leg and left arm spin dada had better bowling attack than dhoni

Other than Jumbo it was a bunch of on & off guys except for Srinath who retired in a couple of yrs, and mind you those initial yrs we weren't exactly peaking even when it comes to our batting (besides the Kolkata/Chennai miracles). Das, Jaffer, Bangar, Dasgupta and effin everybody was tried as an opener. If you're gonna cite Nehra's solo phaassht 150 kmph delivery from the WC as proof of our superior TEST MATCH bowling attack, i can understand ur cricketing acumen which btw also suggests why you're a VK fan :winky: EDIT: For all Ganguly critics, lets not lump Ganguly's captaincy tenure as one single patch wherein he had all the batting strengths at his disposal and Srinath all the time, Jumbo in full flow, Harbhajan permanently performing like Kolkata 2001 and so on. The team had major issues when he started and in particular the opening slot took some time to settle down, first with Sehwag & then Gambhir much later. A bunch of seamers came and went (Nehra, Zak, Agarkar, Balaji, Pathan, Yohanan etc) and none of them was as good as Zak himself under Dhoni.

[Trichromatic]

agarkar balaji r u kidding ? zak nehra bowling 140+ in nehra case he bowled at 150 we had experienced javagal srinath too bhajji murli karthick and kumble off ,leg and left arm spin dada had better bowling attack than dhoni

Bowlers during Ganguly's captaincy Bowlers after Ganguly Highest batting average, best bowling average since 2000 during Ganguly's captaincy.

[Crookbond]

What does challenged mean? How many test series did we win in their own backyard. Yes' date=' we were competitive and ofc given our recent drubbing it looks even better, [b']but it is not like we went to countries and smashed the cr@p out of teams and won series after series or several WCs under Ganguly.

For all the crying out loud, we couldn't even win in Zimbabwe in 2001 which such a good team. :hehe: Also, forget abroad apart from the home series win against SA in 2001 (that is thanks to a certain Sachin Tendulkar who if I'm not wrong single handedly won at least 3 games in that series) we didn't manage to win any ODI series at home against good teams. Freak, we even lost to West Indies 4-3. :banghead:

[Trichromatic]

For all the crying out loud, we couldn't even win in Zimbabwe in 2001 which such a good team. :hehe: Also, forget abroad apart from the home series win against SA in 2001 (that is thanks to a certain Sachin Tendulkar who if I'm not wrong single handedly won at least 3 games in that series) we didn't manage to win any ODI series at home against good teams. Freak, we even lost to West Indies 4-3. :banghead:

:hmmm:

[vamos_rafa]

For all the crying out loud, we couldn't even win in Zimbabwe in 2001 which such a good team. :hehe: Also, forget abroad apart from the home series win against SA in 2001 (that is thanks to a certain Sachin Tendulkar who if I'm not wrong single handedly won at least 3 games in that series) we didn't manage to win any ODI series at home against good teams. Freak, we even lost to West Indies 4-3. :banghead:

Not really. The first match was won by Jadeja and Azhar. the rest of all other matches had partnerships b/w Sahcin and Ganguly. But, sachin di dscore heavily then. But, that series itself was fixed.