someone Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Yep. Isnt it the purview of the central government to compensate the army for its losses ? What business does two-bit CMs of states have in meddling with the army ? This is nothing more than subversion of power from the center and showmanship of the most shameless nature. Do you even realize what other states CM are doing? It's common and just because it is Modi, does not make it wrong. Have some consistently in your decision making, dumbo.....
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Do you even realize what other states CM are doing? It's common and just because it is Modi' date= does not make it wrong. Have some consistently in your decision making, dumbo..... Other CMs are directly giving baksheesh/grants/compensation to the Indian Armed forces ? If so, that *must* be stopped. I dont care if its Modi or Mamata, CMs should *NOT* give any sort of compensation/financial benefit to army personnel. Their masters are the central government and it is the center who should award them anything. Doing otherwise, is to divide the loyalties of the army by having CMs getting into a pissing contest with each other on who 'cares more' about army and its sufferings and the army getting influenced by grants from one CM over another, which can influence the army's decision & competence to handle insurgencies in these states. This can easily regionalise the armies and create divided loyalties.
bulbul Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 May be Modi is trying to answer crictics who critisized him for giving less money to flood relief compared to other CM's.
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 May be Modi is trying to answer crictics who critisized him for giving less money to flood relief compared to other CM's. by trying to divide the loyalties of the army ? It is a bad scenario when the army starts to consider Gujrat govt. to be more 'civil/good' than another state govt. army has to keep total neutrality in internal matters and Modi is not helping by trying to influence the army's views on internal affairs.
bulbul Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 by trying to divide the loyalties of the army ? It is a bad scenario when the army starts to consider Gujrat govt. to be more 'civil/good' than another state govt. army has to keep total neutrality in internal matters and Modi is not helping by trying to influence the army's views on internal affairs. What division? Are you assuming Army will show loyalty to whoever gives money? Money is not for Army , its for their family. May be his timing is wrong , you cannot blame evertime. ps : What he is doing is nothing new , it was done by politicians from longtime , only Modi gets the extreme views
ravishingravi Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Well I think his comments on offering to re build the temple was atrocious given the current scenario.Over 1000 people have died and counting. This was not the stage. It is poor judgement on his part. I was let down.
ravishingravi Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 by trying to divide the loyalties of the army ? It is a bad scenario when the army starts to consider Gujrat govt. to be more 'civil/good' than another state govt. army has to keep total neutrality in internal matters and Modi is not helping by trying to influence the army's views on internal affairs. Yeah I think your reading of situation is not right here.
asterix Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 He's on a glory hunting spree... Needs to calm down... Shows how desperate the 'man in hurry' is....
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 What division? Are you assuming Army will show loyalty to whoever gives money? Money is not for Army , its for their family. May be his timing is wrong , you cannot blame evertime. Army people are human beings too. If one state starts to offer money to compensate army 'hardships', it is natural that this state will curry favour with the army and its personnel- which is potentially divisive and counterproductive in the long run. State government has no business trying to give the army anything- it should come from the center or not at all. ps : What he is doing is nothing new , it was done by politicians from longtime , only Modi gets the extreme views Has any CM ever offered compensation to the army personnel ? I am not aware they did.
someone Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Well I think his comments on offering to re build the temple was atrocious given the current scenario.Over 1000 people have died and counting. This was not the stage. It is poor judgement on his part. I was let down. I don't see the big issue. Even Congressman and other politicians are talking about helping to rebuild the temple. And the bigger issue is that the many become awake only after Modi talked, Congress took such a long time and Modi was the catalyst in making them move faster.
someone Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Army people are human beings too. If one state starts to offer money to compensate army 'hardships', it is natural that this state will curry favour with the army and its personnel- which is potentially divisive and counterproductive in the long run. State government has no business trying to give the army anything- it should come from the center or not at all. Has any CM ever offered compensation to the army personnel ? I am not aware they did. Well, you are not aware of many thing then. They are Indian army so I do not see why Gujarat or for that matter any other states cannot provide their services. Actually it's idiotic by many Congressman that they refused the aid just because of their huge ego. This is not ego fight and everyone should help each one and be accepted. Congress and fans like yourself disappoint me as you still bring politics when one is looking to help.
ravishingravi Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I don't see the big issue. Even Congressman and other politicians are talking about helping to rebuild the temple. And the bigger issue is that the many become awake only after Modi talked' date=' Congress took such a long time and Modi was the catalyst in making them move faster.[/quote'] I am not taking Congress as benchmark for Modi. I have greater expectations from the man.
someone Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 I am not taking Congress as benchmark for Modi. I have greater expectations from the man. Well, isn't the benchmark the core issue then? One thing for Congress and others while another thing for Modi. That's the really issue and where it falls wrong through this double standards. And there is enough stupid people in the country who aids that nonsense and bring pathetic politics.
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Well' date=' you are not aware of many thing then. [b']They are Indian army so I do not see why Gujarat or for that matter any other states cannot provide their services. Actually it's idiotic by many Congressman that they refused the aid just because of their huge ego. This is not ego fight and everyone should help each one and be accepted. Congress and fans like yourself disappoint me as you still bring politics when one is looking to help. Because the Indian armed forces exist to serve all of India equally. when different parts of india starts to offer compensation to the army, it is, in the long run, 'buying favor'. It'd be rather natural for the army to be 'more favourable' towards solving situations in a state that is a bigger contributor to its perks than states who offer nothing after years of this kind of behaviour. To think otherwise, is to think that army people are incorruptable, which we all know is not true. We dont want the army mentality going towards 'oho! big problems in Gujarat- we must solve them first because Gujju govt. gives our jawaans compensation when they break their legs or die in line of duty. Bhaar me jaaye Tamil Nadu- those tamils give us nothing when our jawaans die, so they have to wait'. This *WILL* happen if state governments start giving monetary concessions to the army. We want the army to see any piece of India as equal to another and this type of behaviour is polarizing.
someone Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 We want the army to see any piece of India as equal to another and this type of behaviour is polarizing. Actually its your type of behavior which is polarizing. How can you leave out one state from contributing to the country especially in natural disasters is shocking? You have no problems when XYZ does similar, but you go crazy when its Modi. You are simply blinded by his hate and simply refuse to see anything well. That's also called being delusional.
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Actually its your type of behavior which is polarizing. How can you leave out one state from contributing to the country especially in natural disasters is shocking? You have no problems when XYZ does similar' date= but you go crazy when its Modi. You are simply blinded by his hate and simply refuse to see anything well. That's also called being delusional. They are not contributing to the country, they are contributing to the army. If you pay the army, over time, the army will be biassed towards you. How can it not be the case ? If Gujju govt. gives money to the army for their jawaan's kurbaanis, then over time, the army will feel more loyal to Gujrat than towards other state. That is a natural consequence and unacceptable. Modi has no business anouncing compensation package for the army. To do so, is to try and corrupt the army. Most armies, i hope you realize, CANNOT accept money from any source but their ministries. I hope you realize, that is how the civilized world does its business. You make baseless accusations- when did i say i have no problems when XYZ does it- i infact said that I am not aware that *ANY* CM has done it and the reasons outlined for why its wrong has nothing to do with whether its Modi or Mamata doing it, but the idea of state governments trying to curry favour and giving baksheesh to the army that will, over time, corrupt the army towards one state more than another. The only person being delusional is you- since you are taking what i clearly stated as wrong behaviour with potentially disastrous consequences from a state government to be anti-Modi-ism.
someone Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 They are not contributing to the country, they are contributing to the army. If you pay the army, over time, the army will be biassed towards you. How can it not be the case ? If Gujju govt. gives money to the army for their jawaan's kurbaanis, then over time, the army will feel more loyal to Gujrat than towards other state. That is a natural consequence and unacceptable. Modi has no business anouncing compensation package for the army. To do so, is to try and corrupt the army. Most armies, i hope you realize, CANNOT accept money from any source but their ministries. I hope you realize, that is how the civilized world does its business. What a load of rubbish. These Indian army are Indian people and can be many states and any people in the country has the right to serve them as they protect us. So you want to take this very right. You are too naive if you only believe that Gujarat government is helping, there are infinite "good" people out there who are looking to help. You want to make this case exclusive and it allows you to spread your hatred and nonsense. Just because you only care when Modi says something while when other ministers are doing same things, shows your poor knowledge and how irrational this debate with you is ongoing. We have gone to such a low level where people have such a big ego that they cannot accept an aid just because it is Modi. Having bigger egos during crisis is never good and you sir are very much align with that logic and thus it's a big failure from you. Honestly, it's disappointing as an Indian to see that fellow Indians have such a short minded thoughts.
asterix Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Why do army regiments have region or state names? Why this 'division'? C'mon guys, you don't have to politicise everything... But I agree Modi needs to calm down a bit in glory hunting...
Muloghonto Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 What a load of rubbish. These Indian army are Indian people and can be many states and any people in the country has the right to serve them as they protect us. Bigger picture is what i am arguing for here. The idea is not that these people should not be 'helped' by any state or person. The idea is that they should be helped through the proper channels. The proper channel would be to direct funds to the ministry of defence and let them dispense the funds to its personnel that it deems best. If you, Modi, whoever wants to give funds to help out the jawaans, great. But if you are directly giving them funds, you are currying favour with them. To deny this, is to deny that the army personnel are human and cannot be corrupted. This is wrong and this is how army/police gets corrupted So you want to take this very right. You are too naive if you only believe that Gujarat government is helping, there are infinite "good" people out there who are looking to help. I am not naive, I am not 'all knowing, all seeing eye of Sauron' either. I dont live in India, so there are gaps in my info. I dont know if Indian CMs have directly rewarded the military before, but to my mind, it is simply wrong and on the bigger picture 'regionalizing' the army. You want to make this case exclusive and it allows you to spread your hatred and nonsense. Complete, utter & total lies from you. I have clearly stated that I am not aware of any other CM doing it- i didnt say that nobody did it. I said this is wrong and to my knowledge, CMs have not done it- if you say they have- well i apologize then if thats the case, but its still wrong, for the abovementioned reason. Quit trying to make strawmen out of my arguments. Just because you only care when Modi says something while when other ministers are doing same things, shows your poor knowledge and how irrational this debate with you is ongoing. Poor knowledge and rationalism are not directly linked to each other. You say i dont know- i accept i dont know. This is a discussion forum, not a bhaashan forum. The idea is to put your ideas out there and learn as well as educate others in the process. To make a prima facie allegation of irrationality, while setting up a strawman in the abovementioned sentence, is a wate of my time and yours. We have gone to such a low level where people have such a big ego that they cannot accept an aid just because it is Modi. No, because its a CM. regional ministers should not directly contribute to the army. Its not proper. Contribute to the disaster fund through ministry of defence and let the army do its job, IMO. Having bigger egos during crisis is never good and you sir are very much align with that logic and thus it's a big failure from you. Honestly, it's disappointing as an Indian to see that fellow Indians have such a short minded thoughts. It is not about egos, its about opportunisms. I am a cynic- i fundamentally assume that you are : a) acting out of self interest b) acting through ignorance of viewpoints that do not serve point a) Crisis is a time of greif and help, but it is also a time of opportunism. For petty gains. This type of 'baksheesh to the army for rescuing someone, doing something heroic, etc. should only come through the ministry of defence. Today Gujrat is giving baksheesh for gujjus being saved by the army, tomorrow bongs will give baksheesh for fixing border problem with bangladesh, its all for votes but over the long run, it is subversion of army loyalties. The definition of a national army is that the nation should be its only master and its sole benefactor. by the very definition, it can only be answerable to the highest form of national government and be only monetarily ever compensated through them. Otherwise, it just beats the point of having a national army. You end up over time with regional armies pretending to be a national army (ie, confederacy) by mutual cooperation if national armies can be affected by sub-national levels. To encourage this thrend, is to lose the bigger picture IMO.
bulbul Posted June 26, 2013 Posted June 26, 2013 Why do army regiments have region or state names? Why this 'division'? C'mon guys, you don't have to politicise everything... But I agree Modi needs to calm down a bit in glory hunting... This is India , to get into power you have to these little tricks or else how much good goveranance you did people doesnt care when it comes to voting. When he gave money to relief people complained its too less & you also know the fate of 'that' thread in ICF, now people asking why he gave the money.
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