ICF All Time Test XI : Wicketkeeper

[maniac]

^ Also to add that is why I didn't mention Healy who was equally good with Fastbowlers and spinners.Hell even Micheal Bevan is difficult to keep to due to his unconvetional chinaman bowling. and only went with Dujon,Smith and Boucher.....The pace bowling lineup of WI is so good that any decent keeper would have had a great record.... but obviously we can't go by coulda wolda shoulda so the stats speak for themselves as to why Dhoni is > Dujon

[maniac]

PS:I am in no way undermining Dujon's talent...he is good to make it to the 11 shortlist in the OP but Dhoni should have made it too....

[Lurker]

Ofcourse....Just because he was part of an incincible squad doesn't automatically make him an awesome keeper.Yes he was a good keeper but he was never the game changer in the team.Also he never kept to a good spinner. Assuming we are not taking about ODI's bcoz ofcourse MS will wipe the floor with Dujon but here are the test records.....Don't forget Dhoni is also the captain of the side. Dujon Tests 81 115 11 3322 139 31.94 5 16 11 267 5 ODIs 169 120 36 1945 82* 23.15 2881 67.51 0 6 183 21 Dhoni Tests 67 106 12 3509 148 37.32 5852 59.96 5 24 378 61 192 28 ODIs 206 184 53 6773 183* 51.70 7680 88.19 7 45 517 137 193 65 More runs and almost catching up on dismissals playing 14 less tests.

You could have spared me the ignominy by simply saying - My thoughts are driven by stats. Use the same logic and prove me how Sunil Gavaskar is better than Mohammed Yousuf please.

[maniac]

You could have spared me the ignominy by simply saying - My thoughts are driven by stats. Use the same logic and prove me how Sunil Gavaskar is better than Mohammed Yousuf please.

Did you read the whole post or stopped after looking at the stats.....Now before we take the argumennt on a tangent with SMG vs MoYo.....Did you see the part where I said Dujon never kept to a good spinner where as Dhoni has kept succesfully to both Kumble and Bhajji(who once upon a time was a very good bowler) Dhoni has been a proven match winner with the bat and if you say Dujon has managed these stats in a star-studded team,so has Dhoni with a star-studded batting line-up. Now talking about keeping to phaast bowlers day in and day-out....No matter how much fun we poke of Pk and VK...keeping to even tundlers at a schedule that Dhoni works takes a herculean effort.Ofcourse,it is not even debatable that he is the most busy cricketer in the world. I am not a fan of MS and at the same time I respect Dujon for his accomplishments but I personally think Dhoni is a bigger game changer than Dujon and Dujon does not have a proven track-record against spinners,so I would pick Dhoni over Dujon in my team anyday....haan agar Healy vs Dhoni ki baat karoge to tab kuch baat banthi

[Lurker]

Did you read the whole post or stopped after looking at the stats.....Now before we take the argumennt on a tangent with SMG vs MoYo.....Did you see the part where I said Dujon never kept to a good spinner where as Dhoni has kept succesfully to both Kumble and Bhajji(who once upon a time was a very good bowler) Dhoni has been a proven match winner with the bat and if you say Dujon has managed these stats in a star-studded team,so has Dhoni with a star-studded batting line-up. Now talking about keeping to phaast bowlers day in and day-out....No matter how much fun we poke of Pk and VK...keeping to even tundlers at a schedule that Dhoni works takes a herculean effort.Ofcourse,it is not even debatable that he is the most busy cricketer in the world. I am not a fan of MS and at the same time I respect Dujon for his accomplishments but I personally think Dhoni is a bigger game changer than Dujon and Dujon does not have a proven track-record against spinners,so I would pick Dhoni over Dujon in my team anyday....haan agar Healy vs Dhoni ki baat karoge to tab kuch baat banthi

I didnt stop reading after I saw stats, but I absolutely truly lost interest then and there. Lets see your arguments: a) Dhoni kept wickets to Kumble and Bhajji, Dujon did not. Fair enough. Dujon kept to Marshall, Garner, Holding, Roberts at their fiercest. Beat that! Between the two attacks I would take a keeper who can handle the pace battery with aplomb thank you very much. b) Just because Dhoni keeps to Kumble does not make him a great keeper. What kind of logic is that?? Mongia was great keeping to Kumble, even More. Dhoni??? Have you looked at his stats in games played with Kumble and those without? His numbers go up, so does it for Kumble. What does that tell you? Kumble and Dhoni flopped together..thats what stats say. Look it up :beee:

[maniac]

I didnt stop reading after I saw stats, but I absolutely truly lost interest then and there. Lets see your arguments: a) Dhoni kept wickets to Kumble and Bhajji, Dujon did not. Fair enough. Dujon kept to Marshall, Garner, Holding, Roberts at their fiercest. Beat that! Between the two attacks I would take a keeper who can handle the pace battery with aplomb thank you very much. b) Just because Dhoni keeps to Kumble does not make him a great keeper. What kind of logic is that?? Mongia was great keeping to Kumble, even More. Dhoni??? Have you looked at his stats in games played with Kumble and those without? His numbers go up, so does it for Kumble. What does that tell you? Kumble and Dhoni flopped together..thats what stats say. Look it up :beee:

Thank you for bringing up this name because I considered bringing Nayan Mongia earlier,who according to me was very under-rated in terms of Keeping ability. I would rate Dujon in the same mould as Mongia.The only reason Dujon's name is thrown out there is due to him being associated with a dominant WI squad. As far as keeping to pace is concerned,Moin Khan and Rashid Latif Kept to Wasim,Waqar,Aaquib,Shoaib Akthar,does it automatically make them ATG??? I would consider Healy great because Shane Warne has acknowledged Healy's contribution in most of his Wickets,Gilchrist we all know was a game-changer.Andy Flower was a great batsman and Keeper...these would definetely be ahead of Dhoni in the pecking order but as far as Dujon goes,I have never seen Dujon making an impact in the WI team or anyone acknowledging his contribution to the team much like the names I have mentionedYyes his contribution of being a decent keeper and a handy bat might be over-shadowed due to his illustrious team-mates but if a decent keeper like Mongia would have been a part of that squad,even he would be considered a legend too. This is not coming just from me but most Cricketing pundits think Dhoni is one of the biggest MVP's of the game today...the guy is a genuine allrounder.Stop living in the past and just for a moment think what Dhoni brings to the plate as a player and compare it to Dujon.

[Lurker]

Thank you for bringing up this name because I considered bringing Nayan Mongia earlier,who according to me was very under-rated in terms of Keeping ability. I would rate Dujon in the same mould as Mongia.The only reason Dujon's name is thrown out there is due to him being associated with a dominant WI squad. As far as keeping to pace is concerned,Moin Khan and Rashid Latif Kept to Wasim,Waqar,Aaquib,Shoaib Akthar,does it automatically make them ATG??? I would consider Healy great because Shane Warne has acknowledged Healy's contribution in most of his Wickets,Gilchrist we all know was a game-changer.Andy Flower was a great batsman and Keeper...these would definetely be ahead of Dhoni in the pecking order but as far as Dujon goes,I have never seen Dujon making an impact in the WI team or anyone acknowledging his contribution to the team much like the names I have mentionedYyes his contribution of being a decent keeper and a handy bat might be over-shadowed due to his illustrious team-mates but if a decent keeper like Mongia would have been a part of that squad,even he would be considered a legend too. This is not coming just from me but most Cricketing pundits think Dhoni is one of the biggest MVP's of the game today...the guy is a genuine allrounder.Stop living in the past and just for a moment think what Dhoni brings to the plate as a player and compare it to Dujon.

Yaar maaf karo. Galti ho gaya. I dont have that much patience to compare Dujon vs Mongia vs Rashid Latif. If you think any of these are good as Dujon I say :nice::nice:

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Sidhoni]

And also MSD is 7th in terms of top all-time wicketkeepers in tests..so the fact that he cant make it to to a poll which has 10 best wicketkeepers is beyond me.

[Crookbond]

And also MSD is 7th in terms of top all-time wicketkeepers in tests..so the fact that he cant make it to to a poll which has 10 best wicketkeepers is beyond me.

7th in what? Allon Knott, Bob Taylor, Jeff Dujon, Ian Healy, Rod Marsh, Adam Gilchrist , Andy Flower. You would be absolutely kidding if you put MS Dhoni even somewhere in between this list.

[Sidhoni]

7th in what? Allon Knott' date=' Bob Taylor, Jeff Dujon, Ian Healy, Rod Marsh, Adam Gilchrist , Andy Flower. You would be absolutely kidding if you put MS Dhoni even somewhere in between this list.[/quote'] http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;keeper=1;orderby=batting_average;qualmin1=1000;qualval1=runs;template=results;type=batting

[Crookbond]

^ Meri jaan - A keeper needs to be a "wicket" keeper not a "goal" keeper.

[Sidhoni]

^You are talking as if he is very bad as a wicket keeper..he is above average definitely and very rarely does he drop a catch..

[Crookbond]

^You are talking as if he is very bad as a wicket keeper..he is above average definitely and very rarely does he drop a catch..

Thanks and that's that. The others in the list I posted above - were above good.

[maniac]

Thanks and that's that. The others in the list I posted above - were above good.

What makes you think Aln Knott,Wasim Bari,Rod Marsh,Dujon never dropped a catch.....Yes by all acounts they are very good keepers with a sound technique but so was Mongia.They were part of some very good squads and thats it period.Dhoni.....Infact I would put Dhoni maybe only a shade below Gilchrist and flower,and a shade above Boucher. If you ask me yes,Healy was the best Keeper ever from how Warne Credits him for his rise to stardom but in terms of utility guys like Dhoni and Gilly are once in a lifetime. If I wanted a game changer and Gilly was not available,then Dhoni would be the 2nd go to guy.

[Marut]

And also MSD is 7th in terms of top all-time wicketkeepers in tests..so the fact that he cant make it to to a poll which has 10 best wicketkeepers is beyond me.

Dhoni is an average wkt keeper. Makes no sense to include him in a World XI, even if he were one of the better batsmen.

[Ultimate_Game]

The biggest cross against Dhoni is his lack of production as a batsman outside the sub-continent. If Dhoni was able to reproduce his sub-continent stats outside, he would be in the reckoning for the All Time XI team and IMO it would be between him and Gilly for the wk position. But as things stand today, and given the fact India don't travel abroad for the next couple of seasons I doubt Dhoni will have too many opportunities to counter his critics.

[thongale]

Underwood....what a pie chucker he was..saw his bowling in videos posted by Robe Linda. He was very much like Michael Bewan as bowler.

Pie chucker averaged 25.9 with the ball. Must be some pie chucking.

[rkt.india]

Pie chucker averaged 25.9 with the ball. Must be some pie chucking.

When Lohman can average 10, why cant Underwood average 25.

[The Outsider]

When Lohman can average 10' date=' why cant Underwood average 25.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical::hysterical: Underwood played in the same era as Lillee, Thompson, Imran, Hadlee, Holding, Roberts, Bedi, Chandra etc. etc. and averaged around the same as them - all pie chuckers, brah? :hmmm: