Khalpat Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 Khalpat Mian, all autocratic rule starts like this. Promising order to people who are tired of disorder. Promising quick development. But wonder why it has never worked anywhere in the world (except nations which have immense oil wealth)? sooner or later the person who is at the center of government will get corrupted by the unchecked power that he has got free of any semblance of accountability. It is inevitable. Just look at the padosi nation. The government which has to go to people for a mandate every 5 years is so corrupt, now imagine a dictator who doesnt need any such mandate, can take sweeping decisions without the fear of criticism, has thousands of crores of the nation's wealth at his disposal. What incentive does he have to stay true to his original cause, even if he did come with an intention to improve the system. Democracy is an inherently imperfect form of governance, with the assumption that the majority are always right, but the most imporant part is that it relies on checks and balances to keep individuals from going too far. On a short term these checks and balances may be subverted, but over time as the system matures, they will fall into place. It just needs time and plenty of patience I have nothing against Democracy. This is the best among all other form of governance. But my point is didn't after this movement, universities became the new playground of politics. Becoming a Netaji at University election suddenly became the most lucrative job in India. the place of education became the akhara of politics. Those youth to whom JP used in movement became the new indisciplined lot who are going to burn trains and buses for even if their bhains gets killed in an accident. This is the lot which never allows any reform to take place. Once I was travelling form Varanasi to Allahabad and there were railway employees talking giving mouthfull of Ma Bahen to Vajpayee(PM) and Nitish(Rail Minister), the reason was they were asked to work for 8 hours efficiently imagine just 8 hours and some kind of process was proposed to track their effort by Central gov of that time. They were saying how dare they can ask to work bhool gaye Emergency ko we did the world's largest strike band kar denge sab kutch. This is the attitude.
Crookbond Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 “The ideal form of government is dictatorship tempered by assassination” – Voltaire :hatsoff:
Prakat Posted June 25, 2012 Author Posted June 25, 2012 Voltaire always knows what's up. Pakistan reached the ideal state with Zia.
Swing_n_Speed Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 another gem from BDUTT.. rejoices at democracy in Egypt, when the whole world knows its Muslim brotherhood who have won the elections We may or may not not like choices thrown up by transition in #Egypt. But the people's right to choose has to be the First Principle. Yea kinda surprised. For all the big fat talk of revolution, uprising nada nada nada basically a Mubarak lackey polled close to 49% of the votes. 49% is fecking impressive! On the surface one would think that the MB have pretty much hijacked this revolution.
Swing_n_Speed Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 Voltaire always knows what's up. Pakistan reached the ideal state with Zia. :hysterical:
Lurker Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 I have nothing against Democracy. This is the best among all other form of governance. But my point is didn't after this movement, universities became the new playground of politics. Becoming a Netaji at University election suddenly became the most lucrative job in India. the place of education became the akhara of politics. This I agree Khalpat chacha. Lekin dont be so quick to judge. Remember during Gandhi days also he had a fierce debate with Madan Mohan Malviya ke students should get in politics or not. Those youth to whom JP used in movement became the new indisciplined lot who are going to burn trains and buses for even if their bhains gets killed in an accident. This is the lot which never allows any reform to take place. Once I was travelling form Varanasi to Allahabad and there were railway employees talking giving mouthfull of Ma Bahen to Vajpayee(PM) and Nitish(Rail Minister), the reason was they were asked to work for 8 hours efficiently imagine just 8 hours and some kind of process was proposed to track their effort by Central gov of that time. They were saying how dare they can ask to work bhool gaye Emergency ko we did the world's largest strike band kar denge sab kutch. This is the attitude. Arre bhai that is a shame on us, JP aur democracy ko kahan ghaseet rahe ho. JP was the last Gandhian, fought tooth and nail even when he was 70 plus and on dialysis. Ab unko kahoge ke he used students to ghor kalyug hai Mahatmana-ji. ANd yes you are right ke PSU employees took it for all the wrong reasons. Issiliye everything from Post Office to Telephone vibhaag ya phir industries like HEC ke bamboo lag gaye bhaiyya. Lekin how is this the fault of Emergency?? Ab hamare yehan log galat cheez hi jaldi sheekhte hain, is mein Lokmanya ji ki kya galti?
Khalpat Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 This I agree Khalpat chacha. Lekin dont be so quick to judge. Remember during Gandhi days also he had a fierce debate with Madan Mohan Malviya ke students should get in politics or not. Arre bhai that is a shame on us, JP aur democracy ko kahan ghaseet rahe ho. JP was the last Gandhian, fought tooth and nail even when he was 70 plus and on dialysis. Ab unko kahoge ke he used students to ghor kalyug hai Mahatmana-ji. ANd yes you are right ke PSU employees took it for all the wrong reasons. Issiliye everything from Post Office to Telephone vibhaag ya phir industries like HEC ke bamboo lag gaye bhaiyya. Lekin how is this the fault of Emergency?? Ab hamare yehan log galat cheez hi jaldi sheekhte hain, is mein Lokmanya ji ki kya galti? Lurket Tau, missing the whole point: JP was Gandhian and nobody can question his intention and his faith towards democracy- fact He used youths in his revolution - fact He urged PSU to go for strike - fact This was the first time a revolution that shook the government of Independent India - fact Did it laid foundation to political carreer of Lalu, Paswan, Mulayam - fact Did it laid foundation of voilent political life in Universities - fact Did it made people think that they can reject any gov proposal if they do not find suited to their personal benefit by indulging in voilent protest- fact Did it made people believe that burning of gov machinery like train and bus can be used anytime for any purpose even for bhains ko current laga and if police tries to take some action then "lo bhai emegency ke din yaad aa gaye" is the dialouge whcih we here from every quarter. In short, law has been taken by granted by Indian people- fact
Lurker Posted June 25, 2012 Posted June 25, 2012 He used youths in his revolution - fact Bhai everybody "uses" the youth for revolution, if thats your premise. Clearly most revolutions are led by older people but executed by soldiers on ground. Koi aisa example do jismein 60 saal waale log majority mein the for picketing etc. :winky: He urged PSU to go for strike - fact And isn't that part of freedom that we all have? Sure PSU workers, just like any other people really, can go on strike. It is upto a person, or Union, to do so or not. This was the first time a revolution that shook the government of Independent India - fact Acchi baat hai na, dadagiri nahin chali Did it laid foundation to political carreer of Lalu, Paswan, Mulayam - fact Biharis chewtiya bane major types, pahle hi bola yaar. Waise a lot of that has to do with the old retards who ruled in 80s as well. Specially in Bihar thanks to Jagannath Mishra, Satyendra Babu, Bhagwath Jha Azaad etc. Sirf Laloo aur Mulayam ko gaali dene se kaise kaam chalega bandhu. Did it laid foundation of voilent political life in Universities - fact Nope. Gandhi vs Malviya is a good debate back even in BHU days :--D Did it made people think that they can reject any gov proposal if they do not find suited to their personal benefit by indulging in voilent protest- fact Nope. The revolution was largely non-violent. If anything Govt machinery killed protesters, specially young students. Havent heard students killing cops etc. Did it made people believe that burning of gov machinery like train and bus can be used anytime for any purpose even for bhains ko current laga and if police tries to take some action then "lo bhai emegency ke din yaad aa gaye" is the dialouge whcih we here from every quarter. In short, law has been taken by granted by Indian people- fact Yehan tum jyaada udaan maar diye bandhu. Hartal se seedha train jalaana...:--D
Vijay.Sharma Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 I dunno if Emergency was the blackest day of Free India (we weren't dependent on dem Brits to have become independent...we were enslaved) but I do feel that Dec 6, 1992 and March 12 1993 were pretty bad days...wont say black coz black is me fav color (or non-color) When it comes to youth in politics...I am all for it. I think youth and young, new ideas are very important. Politics is not a bad thing. The way I look at it politics can be defined as the process of decision making. What is not beneficial is violent politics...youth taking up violence is not good. I frankly do not know much about the days of Emergency to say they were really bad days...but I think as a nation we needed it. I think (from my reading of history and elders' hear-say) IG was getting too powerful and dictatorial and she needed to be put in place. For all the negative things we talk about our country, I'd like to look at the positive side too - we haven't become a failed nation like our neighbors, neither have we stagnated like many other countries. Of course we still have poverty in our midst but that problem can never be solved...there will be poor people as there will always be rich people. However, in the last 20 years the amount of middle class has increased. Now this could mean either of two things - many rich people have become poorer and entered middle class, or many poor people have become richer. I guess we all know the answer. Pls no keyboard warriors to accuse me of saying everything is hunky dory
achilles Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 This is a good thread. From what I've heard from people, it was not really the darkest hour of Independent India.
rkt.india Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Now?? Prabhu hum soche ke you will be jumping over yourself to watch Dhanbad coal khadaan ki kahani. Only the 2nd movie on the whole saga after Shotgun Sinha's Kaalka...Kaala Pathar doesnt count. Dekhi nahin hai yehan nahin aaya, planning to check it out in LA. Jiya ho Bihar ke Lala..:dance: You will be disappointed if you want to see the story of coals. GOW Ist part is more about sex maniac Sardar Khan, his wives, his bacche, and tirades.
saneindian Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 Indira hatao, indiri bachao! (Get rid of Indira and save your p*nis). the slogan which came out of those dark days. The major ills in our political system trace their roots to the emergency era. Sycophancy, corruption as a mans to increase clout, political-criminal nexus- Hail Sanjay Gandhi.
CG Posted June 26, 2012 Posted June 26, 2012 I was not even born then,so i do not know,But declaring emergency with out any cause like war is preposterous .How did the Sc allow it at that time.
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