The Outsider Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 No one has uttered a syllable in support of children working in factories but since all other arguments are not working go for the red herrings. And then speak like child labor does not happen in China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 we have all see the outrage about a kid lifting some weights under a trainer, properly fed, taught and with enough sleep..house comfortably ,...and to some it seems to be child abuse of the worst kind. while they comfortably turn a blind eye to the state of weightlifting in their home...never mind they get paid bare minimum, no protection or training, unhygienic condition and no food. ask each of these child to trade places with their chineese counterparts..paid by the state, respected by the country, fed, housed, trained, and clothed, educated... who do you think will have a better future? it's easy to judge people ..difficult to applaud something great and good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Do we have some quality 'spinners' here on a cricket forum :winky: Too bad the Indian govt doesn't pay some of us :mad: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7783640.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Internet Water Army, heard of that earlier ? http://www.technologyreview.com/view/426174/undercover-researchers-expose-chinese-internet/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Tangent Alert!! Means lack of argument.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Champions are born' date=' not manufactured in training camps.[/quote'] ohh yeah...thats why china is kicking ass in olympics...go find another excuse...favorite one...they are being abused into being champions.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 i ahd to study much ahrder than a student in usa...to a parent that might seem torture... Maybe they should have pushed you harder yet, since you compare totally unrelated stuff to justify what is happening. 1.Child labor in India - horribly wrong 2.Parents pushing kids to sports and torturing them - horribly wrong 3.China sending kids to sports factories and torturing them - horribly wrong. No idea how you justify number 3 is fine since 1 and 2 happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 The difference is' date=' you wont see any ICFer denying such evil exists, denying that these things are evil and want to 'laud' those people who exploit children thus. But we do have ICFers who want to laud the chinese goverment for exploiting kids' childhoods in exchange of few pieces of metals[/quote'] and the difference is also that we are quick to create a storm about some kids training hard in their country while we are so indifferent to plight of indian kids...why these double standard. why not open a thread talking about ways we can better child labor laws in india...before taking the moral highground ...it's like osama criticising gadaffi or vice versa... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Maybe they should have pushed you harder yet, since you compare totally unrelated stuff to justify what is happening. 1.Child labor in India - horribly wrong 2.Parents pushing kids to sports and torturing them - horribly wrong 3.China sending kids to sports factories and torturing them - horribly wrong. No idea how you justify number 3 is fine since 1 and 2 happen. 1 is horribly wrong... 2 and 3 are not the best way but to call it horribly wrong. is a bit of an overstatement...first its not torture..its rather hardwork...while for 2...99% kids dont enjoy studying...for 3...that percentage is lower ..jsut the way life is..it wont kill you or make you stunted...for the most part atleast...exceptions are always there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P K Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 ohh yeah...thats why china is kicking ass in olympics...go find another excuse...favorite one...they are being abused into being champions.... how did saina reach top 4 without those training ? last time one boxer and wrestler managed to win one medal for us without these training how ? why take these risky training when others find a way to win without those stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 ohh yeah...thats why china is kicking ass in olympics...go find another excuse...favorite one...they are being abused into being champions.... Who gives a shyt about olympic gold medal if you are taken away from your parents at young age and have no childhood or family. Why dont they do well in worldcup soccer, cricket and hockey if they are such born champs. Guess they dont run a labour/training camp for those sports yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 how did saina reach top 4 without those training ? last time one boxer and wrestler managed to win one medal for us without these training how ? why take these risky training when others find a way to win without those stuff a better validation for your argument would perhaps be taking usa or australian athletes...to bring indian athletes into comparison with the chineese doesn't bolster your argument but rather mine. but i understand the import of what you want to saying....just because you took saina's name...lets look at her training... http://changeminds.wordpress.com/2010/06/27/secrets-of-success-of-saina-nehwal/ so she started at an early age of eight and just look at the extent of her training...yes her education suffered.. and without state support imagine how much her parents ahd to take a risk to support her dream... imagine if she was born in china, with the kind of money support and training,..today you would have been celebrating a gold... and it is exactly people like saina who have interest and determination that they survive the tough training and win gold..others just leave and quit...if they cant take it...it is no way abuse or forced labor as other posters would try to make you believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Who gives a shyt about olympic gold medal if you are taken away from your parents at young age and have no childhood or family. Why dont they do well in worldcup soccer' date=' cricket and hockey if they are such born champs. Guess they dont run a labour/training camp for those sports yet.[/quote'] you come here saying champions are not produced in training camps...when I point you out china's medal tally...you change your tune and say gold medal is meaningless. then you ask me to point out why they dont win in some other sports. then you ask me is it because they dont run training camps...are you saying training camps are required or are you saying they are useless. it seems you need to be trained to put your thoughts properly and have a coherent argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 how did saina reach top 4 without those training ? last time one boxer and wrestler managed to win one medal for us without these training how ? why take these risky training when others find a way to win without those stuff what is risky? i do not see anything risky but something that requires sacrifices, hard work and determination...swimming for hours might make you tired, you take rest and come back..your body toughens up...thats how you become a champion. it's not risky...it is challenging. and you are free to leave if you feel you are not up for it. thats what differentiates champions from others.. its not a forced torture camp as many would like to believe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 Internet Water Army, heard of that earlier ? http://www.technologyreview.com/view/426174/undercover-researchers-expose-chinese-internet/ :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 @ straighttalk...... Unfortunately there are horrible child abuses including child labour of the worst kind taking place in India but almost all of these are crimes in the eyes of the law and if caught and reported these abusers can be punished by law. In china it seems to be state policy . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 @ straighttalk...... Unfortunately there are horrible child abuses including child labour of the worst kind taking place in India but almost all of these are crimes in the eyes of the law and if caught and reported these abusers can be punished by law. In china it seems to be state policy . there is a law but everyone seems to blatantly flouting it..neither does the citizens report it...it is this apathy that i am talking about when we criticize a hard training and label it as abuse..that is training not abuse...any athletes particularly gymnasts has to go through it. just because it is china..it has been assumed that the kids are forced to train. but you dont become a sportsman if you are not interested. once you show interest...you are trained to the extreme, people who cant take it quit..and only those who survive...reach the pinnacle of glory.... only difference is the chineese program is managed by the govt while the us one the athletes themselves hire their trainer they all train equally hard..and the one who trains harder usually wins if their talents are same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 I am sorry...if what is shown in the video is acceptable as training ...then there is no point discussing at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 there is a law but everyone seems to blatantly flouting it..neither does the citizens report it...it is this apathy that i am talking about when we criticize a hard training and label it as abuse..that is training not abuse...any athletes particularly gymnasts has to go through it. just because it is china..it has been assumed that the kids are forced to train. but you dont become a sportsman if you are not interested. once you show interest...you are trained to the extreme, people who cant take it quit..and only those who survive...reach the pinnacle of glory.... only difference is the chineese program is managed by the govt while the us one the athletes themselves hire their trainer they all train equally hard..and the one who trains harder usually wins if their talents are same. Not because it is China, at 3 you are not interested in sports the current trampoline champion Gold medallist is 23 years old, trampoline was first in the olympics in 2000. So when he was 3 yrs old he was interested in trampoline? kya logic yaar. going back to my original post 3 is as bad as 1, living in a hostel at 3 years old without even knowing why you are away from parents, living a regimented, military style life etc is as horrible as being forced to work due to money. Actually both are the same you get stipends out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkey Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 you come here saying champions are not produced in training camps...when I point you out china's medal tally...you change your tune and say gold medal is meaningless. then you ask me to point out why they dont win in some other sports. then you ask me is it because they dont run training camps...are you saying training camps are required or are you saying they are useless. it seems you need to be trained to put your thoughts properly and have a coherent argument. And I stand by my argument, champions are born not manufactured. You just replaced the word manufactured with produce to suit your own argument...lol. Its quite clear they lack the natural talent to win anything worlthwhile in any other major sports hence they run these labour camps for kids to specifically target olympic related events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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