Desi Cartman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 So much for freedom to exercise http://gtvone.com/index.php/2012/07/14/peaceful-protest-melbourne-falun-gong-ccp/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong Falun Dafa (literally means "Dharma Wheel Practice") is a spiritual discipline first introduced in China in 1992 through public lectures by its founder, Li Hongzhi.[1] It combines the practice of meditation and slow-moving qigong exercises with a moral philosophy Human rights groups report that Falun Gong practitioners in China are subject to a wide range of human rights abuses; hundreds of thousands are believed to have been imprisoned extrajudicially, and practitioners in detention are subject to forced labor, psychiatric abuse, torture, and other coercive methods of thought reform at the hands of Chinese authorities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 World dominance..who will they show the collected gold medal count to ? Aliens? It fits in with the world view of Chinese politicians (and to an extent Indian politicans too). The kids in both countries are raised on stories of their glorious past and how much wealthy the countries once were. case in point: the stories about the sone ki chidiya. Hence people in both the nations have the overarching need to see themselves back in a position of pre-eminence in the world with not only economic power but also being respected by allies and foes alike. Of course, China has acted on this desire much better than India and olympics medal tallies is just one of the ways they have set out to achieve it. They have already left the world perturbed with 0 in 1952' date=' no participation for 32 years, and then #1 in 2008 that too happened in a span of just 26 years.[/quote'] They are clearly targeting the medal tally and are very focussed to maximise it by any means possible. Even though I don't agree with such drastic methods and feel that it undermines the very purpose of Olympics, one cannot argue against the efficiency and effectiveness that China has carried out this entire exercise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 If everyone is working hard towards limited 'prizes', someone will work even harder and will start even sooner - as simple as that. (especially for genetically not so gifted). It is hypocritical to bad mouth about Chinese/Korean/Japanese culture. Every culture/civilization is different, and has its pros and cons. And cons are merely cultural differences as perceived by those outside the system..- there is no formula of absolute right/wrong. As a nation/civilization they have been at top (by good margin), and once again heading towards there, for now at least giving tough competition to the top guys....so their cultural values/system surely does work in long term. Interestingly, at one hand millions of so called 'better-cultured' us are salivating at grand total of 1 Silver, 1 Bronze...and on other hand when some certain one is showing how it should be done (sheer hard work), instead of learning good things, we are only nit-picking at media filtered articles/pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 World dominance..who will they show the collected gold medal count to ? Aliens? That kind of hard work, respecting elders, following orders etc. is part of their culture and can be seen not just in Olympic medal preparation, but in every walk of life. So, as a civilzation if they can manage to keep people working as hard as it is evident from these pics, in every aspect - w/o some public protest sort of thing...then its quite likely that they will dominate in more fields than otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkt.india Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 If everyone is working hard towards limited 'prizes', someone will work even harder and will start even sooner - as simple as that. (especially for genetically not so gifted). It is hypocritical to bad mouth about Chinese/Korean/Japanese culture. Every culture/civilization is different, and has its pros and cons. And cons are merely cultural differences as perceived by those outside the system..- there is no formula of absolute right/wrong. As a nation/civilization they have been at top (by good margin), and once again heading towards there, for now at least giving tough competition to the top guys....so their cultural values/system surely does work in long term. Interestingly, at one hand millions of so called 'better-cultured' us are salivating at grand total of 1 Silver, 1 Bronze...and on other hand when some certain one is showing how it should be done (sheer hard work), instead of learning good things, we are only nit-picking at media filtered articles/pics. Then you should be start preparing for 2016 Olympics, chose your sport, otherwise you know whats gonna happen with you.:orderorder::winky: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Interestingly' date=' at one hand millions of so called 'better-cultured' us are salivating at grand total of 1 Silver, 1 Bronze...and on other hand when some certain one is showing how it should be done (sheer hard work), instead of learning good things, we are only nit-picking at media filtered articles/pics.[/quote'] Well said, but the discussion is interesting nonetheless. It's good to hear the critics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 That kind of hard work, respecting elders, following orders etc. is part of their culture and can be seen not just in Olympic medal preparation, but in every walk of life. So, as a civilzation if they can manage to keep people working as hard as it is evident from these pics, in every aspect - w/o some public protest sort of thing...then its quite likely that they will dominate in more fields than otherwise. I don't think there is anything cultural about China's great olympic performances, they are a result of developing brilliant infrastructure, putting in lots of resources, getting the best talent there is and then generously rewarding the better performers. They identified a target and ruthlessly worked towards it, which in itself is quite admirable given the results they achieved. If there is a group which does well due to predisposition, it is the african athletes who bag golds in long distance running every time despite there being very less resources or a focused effort in their countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Interestingly, at one hand millions of so called 'better-cultured' us are salivating at grand total of 1 Silver, 1 Bronze...and on other hand when some certain one is showing how it should be done (sheer hard work), instead of learning good things, we are only nit-picking at media filtered articles/pics. Salivating? Enjoying sports and rejoicing in someone's success is salivating? Maybe in North Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triam Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Comparing it this issue with doping etc, wow how do you guys breathe and walk at the same time? Individual choices to excel in sometihng (doping) unethical is the same as Institutionally mandated processes and rules to achieve world domination. This argument is not US vs China at all, so no points stating oh US sucks, US bombed iraq blah blah. This is about outright abuse of child rights. A 3 year old who has no idea of the long term effects of this training, the parents who may know the long term effects but dont have the power to change anything and a government who have a clear idea of the long term effects but dont give a ***** about this. Before you say there are no long term effects and it only strengthens your body please, go read up on sporting injuries and their impact on long term health. How many of you have seriously trained for a sport, I have till junior level gave up after realizing I am not that good, the injuries that I had at that time still have effects on my day to day life (lucky they were not very serious). And I personally know people who have competed and won at international level in different sports both Indian and non indian. Most if not all have injuries that affect their day to day life, but that is a choice they make a 3 year old does not have that choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desi Cartman Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Comparing it this issue with doping etc, wow how do you guys breathe and walk at the same time? Individual choices to excel in sometihng (doping) unethical is the same as Institutionally mandated processes and rules to achieve world domination. This argument is not US vs China at all, so no points stating oh US sucks, US bombed iraq blah blah. This is about outright abuse of child rights. A 3 year old who has no idea of the long term effects of this training, the parents who may know the long term effects but dont have the power to change anything and a government who have a clear idea of the long term effects but dont give a ***** about this. Before you say there are no long term effects and it only strengthens your body please, go read up on sporting injuries and their impact on long term health. How many of you have seriously trained for a sport, I have till junior level gave up after realizing I am not that good, the injuries that I had at that time still have effects on my day to day life (lucky they were not very serious). And I personally know people who have competed and won at international level in different sports both Indian and non indian. Most if not all have injuries that affect their day to day life, but that is a choice they make a 3 year old does not have that choice. Thats what I have been saying in all my posts , and even a 10 year old doesnt have that choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 If everyone is working hard towards limited 'prizes', someone will work even harder and will start even sooner - as simple as that. (especially for genetically not so gifted). It is hypocritical to bad mouth about Chinese/Korean/Japanese culture. Every culture/civilization is different, and has its pros and cons. And cons are merely cultural differences as perceived by those outside the system..- there is no formula of absolute right/wrong. As a nation/civilization they have been at top (by good margin), and once again heading towards there, for now at least giving tough competition to the top guys....so their cultural values/system surely does work in long term. Interestingly, at one hand millions of so called 'better-cultured' us are salivating at grand total of 1 Silver, 1 Bronze...and on other hand when some certain one is showing how it should be done (sheer hard work), instead of learning good things, we are only nit-picking at media filtered articles/pics. very well put...instead of lauding something good, we are hell bent on criticizing someone else..to excel in something you have to go the extra distance...and they are just doing the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Comparing it this issue with doping etc, wow how do you guys breathe and walk at the same time? Individual choices to excel in sometihng (doping) unethical is the same as Institutionally mandated processes and rules to achieve world domination. This argument is not US vs China at all, so no points stating oh US sucks, US bombed iraq blah blah. This is about outright abuse of child rights. A 3 year old who has no idea of the long term effects of this training, the parents who may know the long term effects but dont have the power to change anything and a government who have a clear idea of the long term effects but dont give a ***** about this. Before you say there are no long term effects and it only strengthens your body please, go read up on sporting injuries and their impact on long term health. How many of you have seriously trained for a sport, I have till junior level gave up after realizing I am not that good, the injuries that I had at that time still have effects on my day to day life (lucky they were not very serious). And I personally know people who have competed and won at international level in different sports both Indian and non indian. Most if not all have injuries that affect their day to day life, but that is a choice they make a 3 year old does not have that choice. what about three year olds training in usa for gymnastics? their rights are equally valued as in china. the question remains whether the kids or their parents are forced to send their children to these training. if that is not the case, then there is nothing wrong with the chineese method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 what about three year olds training in usa for gymnastics? their rights are equally valued as in china. the question remains whether the kids or their parents are forced to send their children to these training. if that is not the case' date=' then there is nothing wrong with the chineese method.[/quote'] Show me a video where the 3 yr olds are pushed , beaten, sat upon and legs being pulled apart from USA or any western country where you claim the same will take place? They are rudely treated and are reduced to tears. The kid must be a masochist to willingly subject himself to get gold medals in olympics. Besides in US there is a some sort of a corrective action taken in case of parents or coaches get abusive and are unlawful. Show me a similar system in your country - China and North Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 That kind of hard work, respecting elders, following orders etc. is part of their culture and can be seen not just in Olympic medal preparation, but in every walk of life. So, as a civilzation if they can manage to keep people working as hard as it is evident from these pics, in every aspect - w/o some public protest sort of thing...then its quite likely that they will dominate in more fields than otherwise. Your efforts are in vain, I am afraid. You won't get through to the USA - A - OK posse led by 'The_Misinformer', who seemed to have developed a diabolically quick love for North Koreans in the past 5 hours or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Show me a video where the 3 yr olds are pushed , beaten, sat upon and legs being pulled apart from USA or any western country where you claim the same will take place? They are rudely treated and are reduced to tears. The kid must be a masochist to willingly subject himself to get gold medals in olympics. Besides in US there is a some sort of a corrective action taken in case of parents or coaches get abusive and are unlawful. Show me a similar system in your country - China and North Korea? so now you see if i show you a video..you have a ready excuse...that there are corrective measures. china's rise is a big concern for usa and it is engaging in classical psy-ops by using its media and soft power to undermine everything it does. i am not denying that human rights is an issue for china at large and maybe the training is harsh..but there is no way that the govt forces you to give up your kid and join the training camps or face harsh consequences. i spoke to many of my chineese friends who said that these olympians have demi god status in china and are financially secured for their entire life. maybe this and the lure of money makes these kids join the training camp. there they are forged in to the most elite level of athletes who make the comfort creatures of west eat a humble pie. and now these methods come under scrutiny from the media of a country which has the dubious distinction of using nukes not once but twice, and invades other countries on false accusations. ever cared to think about the rights of children in japan, iraq, or vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 so now you see if i show you a video..you have a ready excuse...that there are corrective measures. china's rise is a big concern for usa and it is engaging in classical psy-ops by using its media and soft power to undermine everything it does. i am not denying that human rights is an issue for china at large and maybe the training is harsh..but there is no way that the govt forces you to give up your kid and join the training camps or face harsh consequences. i spoke to many of my chineese friends who said that these olympians have demi god status in china and are financially secured for their entire life. maybe this and the lure of money makes these kids join the training camp. there they are forged in to the most elite level of athletes who make the comfort creatures of west eat a humble pie. and now these methods come under scrutiny from the media of a country which has the dubious distinction of using nukes not once but twice' date=' and invades other countries on false accusations. [b']ever cared to think about the rights of children in japan, iraq, or vietnam. Lol, look at the title of thread. This statement of yours basically proves it more than anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 it's funny that we indians treat the rest of our body differently from our brains. while we can cram for hours, forget playing sports, read books, go to so many special skills classes, burn midnight oil from an early age,scolded and beat by teachers and parents to get a coveted goal...that mental torture is quite acceptable but a stretching exercise (and many of the critics dont even understand why the weight is being put) is a cause of unbelievable concern. do you think if china was running a prison camp they would have invited a foreign media group and then they would hit a child in front of them...these are all isolated incidents blown up by media unaccustomed to see their team losing. china and other oriental countries have a long martial arts tradition and other countries do not understand their capacity ot take pain, discipline, hard work and training.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Lol' date=' look at the title of thread. This statement of yours basically proves it more than anything.[/quote'] no it doesn't..if you care to look at it objectively it is nothing more that the indo-pak rivalry in cricket.. care to say why that is acceptable but a country's attempts to attain perfection is sports is suddenly something to be ashamed of..i agree there is a context..you want to beat your rival but its not war but rather a matter of national pride. my statement was in reference to a blatant attempt by a media to vilify another country when it itself has done much worse...imagine if china uses drones to kill civilians...just as it is being done in pakistan..just imagine the headlines. my question is why this double standard. is it just because the world cant read mandarin and english is more accessible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punjabi_khota Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 no it doesn't..if you care to look at it objectively it is nothing more that the indo-pak rivalry in cricket.. care to say why that is acceptable but a country's attempts to attain perfection is sports is suddenly something to be ashamed of..i agree there is a context..you want to beat your rival but its not war but rather a matter of national pride. my statement was in reference to a blatant attempt by a media to vilify another country when it itself has done much worse...imagine if china uses drones to kill civilians...just as it is being done in pakistan..just imagine the headlines. my question is why this double standard. is it just because the world cant read mandarin and english is more accessible You dont get it do you. The media is raising the issue of children's rights being taken away for sports and sake of olympic glory. The human rights violations US does is in context of war. That is EXACTLY why your equating the two and calling it 'hypocrisy' and 'double standards' is justifying the title of this thread, i.e. China is violating human rights to win medals, US violates human rights in name of war. And another point: there has been plenty of criticism of US re: human rights and war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straighttalk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 You dont get it do you. The media is raising the issue of children's rights being taken away for sports and sake of olympic glory. The human rights violations US does is in context of war. That is EXACTLY why your equating the two and calling it 'hypocrisy' and 'double standards' is justifying the title of this thread, i.e. China is violating human rights to win medals, US violates human rights in name of war. And another point: there has been plenty of criticism of US re: human rights and war. unfortunately the criticism of usa has never been on an offical UN level..it has been done by educated people like you and me. they havent been censured or punished unlike many other countries. regarding rights abuse of the children..it is only so if they are not joining the camps volunatarily. if they trained like you and me..obvioulsy they are not going to win. now you will see a trainee swimming when tired, while her body is being prepared to go the extra distance. i would call it a torture only if the child was forced to join the school against his or her wish or their parents. if the child wants to be a olympian, then yes he needs to be trained hard. there is nothing wrong in it. but in case he is imprisoned and can't exit the school, then it is child abuse until then it is just malicious propaganda. did i enjoy studying when i was young. no. was i scolded or slapped around by my teachers ..yes once or twice. now say a tv crew films my teacher slapping me once or makes me do 100 squats in the sun..say i faint...and that is being bandied about in media as inhuman teaching practices in india... then i can just laugh about it. in my school, where i had no fan even during summers, ahd to sleep at 10 and wake up at 5 to attend exercises...failure to do so would have made me run several laps. did i enjoy it particularly? no. if i wanted to leave , i could have left anytime. but i stuck through it and it is no way abuse. but to many it would ahve looked like child abuse. and ya i used to go home only twice a year. it was not a sports school but a normal educational institution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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