Crookbond Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Pakistan creates problem for itself and then puts up conspiracy theories like Zionism. Classic Pakistan! :facepalm:
Stuge Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 TTP claims responsibility of Kamra Airbase attack :O
Asim Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 lol pakistan is just one loose nuke away from rest of the world invading its ****. so true.any hint of displacement of nukes towards jihadis will surely end the deal for pakistan. Yeah exactly! nuke uthaya, shopping bag mai dala, ghar ki chat par rakha, machis ki teeli lagae and there you go...
Crookbond Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 ^ Asim mia, Aap bataye why are there so many attacks in Pakistan from non-state actors? I really want to know. Aur sach batao, aapki izzat karta hu I am not trolling - just want to know why is there like an attack every odd day that too on the military bases now. This was not the case earlier.
Asim Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 ^ Asim mia' date=' [i']Aap bataye why are there so many attacks in Pakistan from non-state actors? I really want to know. Aur sach batao, aapki izzat karta hu I am not trolling - just want to know why is there like an attack every odd day that too on the military bases now. This was not the case earlier. Quite straight fwd it is, besides Pakistani civilians and other targeted attacks, Pak Army and all related forces are their main target SINCE our army is in a full-fledged war against them, these attacks are ofcourse their reply to Pak army... wot else...
Crookbond Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Quite straight fwd it is' date=' besides Pakistani civilians and other targeted attacks, Pak Army and all related forces are their main target SINCE our army is in a full-fledged war against them, these attacks are ofcourse their reply to Pak army... wot else...[/quote'] Asim bhai, I am not clear on why they would attack and the history. Can you summarize quickly?
Clarke Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Yeah exactly! nuke uthaya' date=' shopping bag mai dala, ghar ki chat par rakha, machis ki teeli lagae and there you go...[/quote'] Two factors that increased the likelihood of a loose nuke - AQ Khan's market based approach on these WMDs opened Pandora's box. - Al Qaeda/terror sympathizers in the Fauj could leak some components if not a dirty bomb. The danger exists from former Soviet Republics as well.
Asim Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Asim bhai' date=' I am not clear on why they would attack and the history. Can you summarize quickly?[/quote'] Why would'nt they attack when Pak army is attacking their camps every day? Would they just sit back quietly and keep watching themselves blown away? Of course they will react and these attacks are exactly their response back to Pak army...
Lurker Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Why would'nt they attack when Pak army is attacking their camps every day? Would they just sit back quietly and keep watching themselves blown away? Of course they will react and these attacks are exactly their response back to Pak army... If that is indeed the case Asim then good luck to you, and Pakistan. You guys will need tons of it. The way I see it is, if your assertion is true, then this will only make Pakistan Armed Forces go after the terrorist even more, thus forcing terrorists to retaliate even more, forcing Armed Forces to up the tempo followed by terrorists.... See how that cycle will only get vicious? The real reason of course is you created this monster now you have to live with it. Sigh!
Asim Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Two factors that increased the likelihood of a loose nuke - AQ Khan's market based approach on these WMDs opened Pandora's box. - Al Qaeda/terror sympathizers in the Fauj could leak some components if not a dirty bomb. The danger exists from former Soviet Republics as well. & we get labeled for conspiracy theories...
Asim Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 If that is indeed the case Asim then good luck to you, and Pakistan. You guys will need tons of it. The way I see it is, if your assertion is true, then this will only make Pakistan Armed Forces go after the terrorist even more, thus forcing terrorists to retaliate even more, forcing Armed Forces to up the tempo followed by terrorists.... See how that cycle will only get vicious? The real reason of course is you created this monster now you have to live with it. Sigh! Asim bhai' date=' I am not clear on why they would attack and the history. Can you summarize quickly?[/quote'] PAK+US designed them, supported them and "used" them for their own binifits, no one can deny... it backfired, agree! BUT who supporting them right now when Pak state and whole army is fighting against them since a decade now, my real concern is THIS... (I am talking about NOW not 90s), they are up against whole Pakistani state but still very much strong and active, Hardly any week passes when we don't face one such suicide blast/targeted attack and few massive ones are such which are not possible unless they dont have highly professional training with millions of $$ support Right Now... (yeah here you can make fun of me for this conspiracy)
Lurker Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 BUT who supporting them right now when Pak state and whole army is fighting against them since a decade now, my real concern is THIS... (I am talking about NOW not 90s), they are up against whole Pakistani state but still very much strong and active, Hardly any week passes when we don't face one such suicide blast/targeted attack and few massive ones are such which are not possible unless they dont have highly professional training with millions of $$ support Right Now... (yeah here you can make fun of me for this conspiracy) Yes that is a conspiracy theory, and a stretched one at that. Look, the ultimate loser in this whole fiasco are ultimately the moderates on both sides of the border. And that is me and you. The right wingers on both sides are having a field day stroking the hate. Let us start with that so you understand where I am coming from, instead of reading as another nationalistic Indian. You are looking at an external reason when there is frankly none. Unlike Pakistani terrorist coming to India, aka Mumbai killings, you would not see Indians going into Pakistan to kill citizens. Why? Because there is no drive to do so. There is a religious jihadi reason for the misled Pakistani, whats the reason you think an Indian will have?? If Indian agencies are supporting subservsive elements in Balochistan that I can understand, and also agree, although not sure to what extent. What I would disagree with however is that these attacks on Pakistani bases are supported by India. The men that are captured are Pakistani, belong to Pakistani groups and carry Pakistani-Chinese weapons. Where is the Indian connection?? Alternately do you seriously think Pakistani groups, aka Taliban, LeT etc, would work with India? That would be reason enough for both sides to bolt. Look internal thats where the problems lie.
Asim Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 ^ Think you should'v hold This response till I categorically name India for this particular case At Least :)
ganeshran Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Dirty bomb scenario is far fetched IMO. The level of expertise required to build a bomb, transport it to enemy territory and detonate it is very high for a group like the Taliban. If it happens there has to be state support and not some stray elements acting alone. What terrorist groups could do is to cause an explosion at the nuclear reactor which would lead to leakage of radioactive material and widespread damage. I doubt they would even try to steal the nukes, which would be heavily protected. They have far more to gain by launching attacks like these which gain widespread attention and appear to be a victory for the militants.
Asim Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 OK, here is another Grand Theory many of us now have started to believe on (which actually must b a great news for you guys, e.g. Texy & co etc) No matter for how long and how much sacrifices Pakistani army and Pakistani people keep on giving, These terror attacks will remain continue by whosoever external support, to make Pakistan as destabilized as possible (with worldwide propaganda against security of Pakistani nuclear assets, which probably have already started, despite the fact that "they" Actually Do Know that Pakistani nuc assets are 101% safest, literally more safer than anywhere else in world who claim to be) till declaring it a "failed state" To Capture its Nukes which is their ultimate target...
Clarke Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 Dirty bomb scenario is far fetched IMO. The level of expertise required to build a bomb, transport it to enemy territory and detonate it is very high for a group like the Taliban. If it happens there has to be state support and not some stray elements acting alone. How do you define state support ? It will never be sanctioned by PM/COAS but what about a few senior personnel like in the case of 26/11 ? Isn't it a few individuals after all that are required for a dirty bomb, some ideologues & others bought off. Unless you have a distrust of western media like our ignorant neighbors please read/watch the documentary: Nuclear bombs are fairly simple to assemble, if enough enriched uranium is available; and that is easier to steal, or buy, than to make. After the Soviet Union dissolved in 1989, plutonium could be obtained by simply smashing the lock on a storage shed. ("Potatoes are guarded better," says one Russian expert.) To smuggle weapons-grade material into the U.S., all you'd need to do is bury it inside a lead pipe and hide it in a giant container of canned goods on any freighter entering a port city. Transporting them is also no problem, since 100 pounds of highly enriched uranium, enough to crater New York City, could fit inside a football. At the center of three decades of worries is the Islamic state of Pakistan. When India, its adjacent enemy, went nuclear, a Pakistani leader said, "We will make the bomb, even if we have to eat grass." Soon Pakistan joined the nuclear club and through one evil genius, the engineer A.Q. Khan spread the technology to North Korea, Iraq and Libya. "Got a problem?" someone says in Countdown to Zero. "Call 1-800-AQ-KHAN." http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2008091,00.html
veer Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 As far as I am conccern.. it is easy to figure out who is doing what.. For X reason, terrorist groups got too strong in p@kistan... For Y reason, PAK govt wants to destroy these groups.. PAK forces half heartedly attacking these group.. Terror groups full heartedly attacking various goverment and other places.. somewhere there is a saudi connection (to terror group) and then there is US connection for putting pressure on pak.. but it is upto pak govt how to end this cycle.. It won't be easy.. Imran khan won't stand a chance either.. In a way, it is good for India cuz I have not seen 'Kargil' type attack in recent past.. they are too occupied in themselves.. and I apologize for thinking that way.
ganeshran Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 How do you define state support ? It will never be sanctioned by PM/COAS but what about a few senior personnel like in the case of 26/11 ? Isn't it a few individuals after all that are required for a dirty bomb, some ideologues & others bought off. Unless you have a distrust of western media like our ignorant neighbors please read/watch the documentary: http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2008091,00.html By state support, I mean support from an organization that has the means to finance, recruit personell (the required skills would not be easy to find), have secure facilites and the means to transport the bomb across the borders ( It is pointless for any part of the establishment to detonate weapons in their own borders). If such an entity was supporting it, then yes stealing nukes and building bombs would be possible, but that would constitute an act of war, not one of terrorism. The dirty bomb scenario is based on a bunch of taliban terrorists able to crack into secure nuclear facilities, steal the enriched uranium, assemble a weapon from it, smuggle it into the United states and then detonate it, something that becomes progressively more difficult with each stage. 9/11 pales in comparison to the kind of resources that would be needed to carry out something on this scale. To add to that, I don't think Taliban has a lot to strategically achieve from carrying it out either. Their objectives would far more easily be met by carrying out conventional bomb explosions, something that they already have the capability for but have not been able to do for the last 10 years in the US.
Clarke Posted August 16, 2012 Posted August 16, 2012 The dirty bomb scenario is based on a bunch of taliban terrorists able to crack into secure nuclear facilities, steal the enriched uranium, assemble a weapon from it, smuggle it into the United states and then detonate it, something that becomes progressively more difficult with each stage. 9/11 pales in comparison to the kind of resources that would be needed to carry out something on this scale. To add to that, I don't think Taliban has a lot to strategically achieve from carrying it out either. Their objectives would far more easily be met by carrying out conventional bomb explosions, something that they already have the capability for but have not been able to do for the last 10 years in the US. You surely skipped what i suggested you read/watch; in short its difficult but not impossible. You can ignore the Taliban which is highly localized and instead think of international groups. Due to American efforts, the earlier #1 has been largely weakened. The next in line and our biggest enemy, the LeT has widespread support in the neighborhood, agreed ? The neighborhood also ran a black market in nuclear weapons technology, true ? Unless the two sets of people in charge of operations in both cases are mutually exclusive (highly unlikely, since both sets of people were from their Fauj) and if there's a hint of overlap, its bad news for us.
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