Tendulkar and Zaheer retirement discussion [Poll added]

[Ultimate_Game]

what about there chand ?:winky: de kock ? he is wicket keeper no ? and he jsut smashed a brilliant hundred against best south africa domestic side!

Haven't heard or seen much of him. All I know is that Tsolikile is their backup wk and I can safely say he's no AB, Boucher or even Kathik. SA will be in for a tough time post Kallis as other than Amla and ABDV there won't be much support in the batting deptt. and I haven't seen any quality all-rounders break through for SA recently.

[Old guy]

Haven't heard or seen much of him. All I know is that Tsolikile is their backup wk and I can safely say he's no AB' date=' Boucher or even Kathik. SA will be in for a tough time post Kallis as other than Amla and ABDV there won't be much support in the batting deptt. and I haven't seen any quality all-rounders break through for SA recently.[/quote'] de kock was best batsman in under 19 world cup....

[Ultimate_Game]

de kock was best batsman in under 19 world cup....

So was Shikhar Dhawan in early 2000s. Doesn't mean much else we would be the ones with $ WC wins at senior level, not Australia. Intl cricket is a big step-up and let's see how De Kock comes along but at the moment he's no close to the senior team.

[Old guy]

So was Shikhar Dhawan in early 2000s. Doesn't mean much else we would be the ones with $ WC wins at senior level' date=' not Australia. Intl cricket is a big step-up and let's see how De Kock comes along but at the moment he's no close to the senior team.[/quote'] he even debuted in first class cricket before that and has been doing well enough to be in contention ..unlike chand and we all know bowlers are conditions are tougher in south africa

[Ultimate_Game]

he even debuted in first class cricket before that and has been doing well enough to be in contention ..unlike chand and we all know bowlers are conditions are tougher in south africa

Let's see what he does when he shows up at intl cricket. At the moment he can't make up for either Kallis or ABDV.

[Old guy]

Let's see what he does when he shows up at intl cricket. At the moment he can't make up for either Kallis or ABDV.

ofc but he talent along the lines of faf and abdv.. :) u know some one has potential after seeing him bat

[Ultimate_Game]

ofc but he talent along the lines of faf and abdv.. :) u know some one has potential after seeing him bat

Nope not along the lines of ABDV. ABDV is extremely talented and not many come close to him. ABDV may well turn out to be the best batsman of his generation.

[Old guy]

Nope not along the lines of ABDV. ABDV is extremely talented and not many come close to him. ABDV may well turn out to be the best batsman of his generation.

but he is very talented more then chand imo but lets wait im sure he will have gr8 career he is lefty maybe next gilchrist :--D:hysterical:

[CG]

ofc but he talent along the lines of faf and abdv.. :) u know some one has potential after seeing him bat

Faf :hysterical::hysterical:

[Old guy]

Faf :hysterical::hysterical:

ok rohit sharma is more talented them all :vroam:

[Ultimate_Game]

but he is very talented more then chand imo but lets wait im sure he will have gr8 career he is lefty maybe next gilchrist :--D:hysterical:

Chand has a knack of showing up in big matches - he scored 100s in Asia Cup final, final against Aus in quadrangular tourney in Aus and also against Aus in Aus in WC final. So I won't say Kock is more talented than Chand. Let's see what happens in the future.

[Old guy]

Chand has a knack of showing up in big matches - he scored 100s in Asia Cup final' date=' final against Aus in quadrangular tourney in Aus and also against Aus in Aus in WC final. So I won't say Kock is more talented than Chand. Let's see what happens in the future.[/quote'] well i have seen them both play in clt20 too clearly de kock looked part chand didnt and then he has better technique yes he was playing at home but u can tell guy will be big thing lets wait n see let chand hit few more hundreds in first class cricket after his first one this season (or career i think ) then we will label him as talent :winky:

[Ultimate_Game]

well i have seen them both play in clt20 too clearly de kock looked part chand didnt and then he has better technique yes he was playing at home but u can tell guy will be big thing lets wait n see let chand hit few more hundreds in first class cricket after his first one this season (or career i think ) then we will label him as talent :winky:

I will hold mu judgement until they start playing intl cricket. Else it would have been decided in mid 200s that Shikhar Dhawan is a better batsman than Cook.

[Old guy]

I will hold mu judgement until they start playing intl cricket. Else it would have been decided in mid 200s that Shikhar Dhawan is a better batsman than Cook.

yeah...but since we were talking about future wicket keepers ..talking abt de kock who is erforming in first class cricket... ,out performed every one in under 19 and in red hot form right now is valid enough to include no ? will def do better the n what boucher did in last 3 years

[koolkarts]

Care to elaborate how Kallis being a better than Tendulkar "joke of the year"? Kallis averages 5 7 to Tendulkar's 54 and is 2nd in the list of Test 100s. How do these stats show Tendulkar is better than Kallis? As for "grudges" what grudge are you referring to? I haven't met either Tendulkar or Kallis, nor am I related to either. Calling A better than B doesn't mean someone has a "grudge" against B. It's just an opinion. Calling it as a grudge is an easy way out as you can't argue for A statistically. Kallis may not have scored that much against Aussies in the time period you mentioned but that's not the yardstick for deciding between the two over their entire careers. Coz I can come up with an arbitrary timeframe where Kallis has done well or point to the fact that Kallis has seldome performed a disappearing act while his team was being pummeled 0-8.

It does sound like a grudge. Take this for example. When Sachin was performing in his peak years, he was performing and dominating, note the word dominating, McGrath, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose, Waqar, Shoaib, Warne, Murali, Lee, Donald, etc Kallis had that same opportunity, look at his average against those teams (exception being SA of course) SRT was a lone warrior, along with Dravid once in a while, in facing those bowlers. In the modern era, the only truly class bowling attack is that of SA's with Steyn and co,who Kallis has the privilege of not having to face. Kallis is a class player, no doubt, but he's a product of an era where bowling quality is diminishing. He has favoured heavily facing trundlers. If you think Sachin pummelled minnows, look ar Kallis average. An average of 79 vs Bangladesh, 64 vs New Zealand, 73 vs New Zealand, 169 vs Zimbabwe There's an argument that he's a better player overall than Sachin with his bowling, and I agree with that. But to discredit a man who's never played on a team with a genuine fast bowler, who's carried the nations burden for over 20 years, and bring him down to a level that is Kallis' batting is unfair. Have you seen the quality of innings Sachin played? There is a certain magic when you watch Sharjah 1998, or the Chennai test against Pakistan, in my lifetime it has only been paralleled by SRT and Lara. And while I acknowledge Tests are the number 1 form of cricket, SRT's record in ODIs is also incredible, and impossible to ignore, if you want to compare batting. A player who can so effortlessly switch between formats is truly a great of all time. You need to look beyond the statistics my friend, and get onto Youtube. I get the impression you only started watching cricket a couple of years ago...

[Ultimate_Game]

It does sound like a grudge. Take this for example. When Sachin was performing in his peak years, he was performing and dominating, note the word dominating, McGrath, Wasim, Walsh, Ambrose, Waqar, Shoaib, Warne, Murali, Lee, Donald, etc Kallis had that same opportunity, look at his average against those teams (exception being SA of course) SRT was a lone warrior, along with Dravid once in a while, in facing those bowlers. In the modern era, the only truly class bowling attack is that of SA's with Steyn and co,who Kallis has the privilege of not having to face. Kallis is a class player, no doubt, but he's a product of an era where bowling quality is diminishing. He has favoured heavily facing trundlers. If you think Sachin pummelled minnows, look ar Kallis average. An average of 79 vs Bangladesh, 64 vs New Zealand, 73 vs New Zealand, 169 vs Zimbabwe There's an argument that he's a better player overall than Sachin with his bowling, and I agree with that. But to discredit a man who's never played on a team with a genuine fast bowler, who's carried the nations burden for over 20 years, and bring him down to a level that is Kallis' batting is unfair. Have you seen the quality of innings Sachin played? There is a certain magic when you watch Sharjah 1998, or the Chennai test against Pakistan, in my lifetime it has only been paralleled by SRT and Lara. And while I acknowledge Tests are the number 1 form of cricket, SRT's record in ODIs is also incredible, and impossible to ignore, if you want to compare batting. A player who can so effortlessly switch between formats is truly a great of all time. You need to look beyond the statistics my friend, and get onto Youtube. I get the impression you only started watching cricket a couple of years ago...

Whom exactly am I "discrediting"? Saying that Kallis is better than Tendulkar is not discrediting Tendulkar just as saying Lara was better than Dravid is not discrediting Dravid. Kallis has done enough over his entire career to be considered the premier batsman and his stats speak for themselves. Your argument about Kallis not facing SA bowlers is akin to someone saying Richards wasn't the top batsman in 80s coz he never faced the WI pace attack or that Ponting wasn't better than Dravid as he didn't face McGrath and Warne. You can only play against the opponent you are put up against and Kallis has shown he has done well enough while averaging 57 with the bat over his career. To me Kallis has edged Tendulkar and the stats prove the same.

[velu]

sabby is slowly becoming a big anti-sachinsta :icflove: :two_thumbs_up:

[wobblydoggy]

Tendulkar must be dropped for third test Sachin is a ghost of himself. If he will not retire, you guys must drop him. He is a walking wicket

[Eternal Atma]

No he is still a great batsmen. It happens to all players and more of a mental thing for me. His skills are still the best. No6 and openers need looking at though.

[Trichromatic]

:agree: