Is MS Dhoni's T20 time up?

[Trichromatic]

Mariyam on a roll.

[Raghav_12]

I am stating the same so you are saying Dhoni the captain should take the responsibility of SRT' date=' GG, Viru, RD, VVS, Zak, Ishant, Sreesanth under performing. It could have happened if we had a choice, but here TINA worked for Dhoni. [b']And then again, when was the last time, an Indian captain was sacked because we lost abroad.

Show me when we lost 0-8 earlier. We haven't lost an abroad tour like that in years, forget about two consecutive such tours. We lost 0-3 (99) to world beater team of Australia and Sachin resigned. Vensarkar's team had lost to no.1 team of WI in 89 by 0-3, he was sacked. The only captain who survived humiliation of somehow similar level (same level of humiliation never happened earlier) was Azharuddin when we lost to Australia 0-4 in 92 and that (survival of Azhar) was very wrong thing to happen which plagued indian cricket for really long time.

[CSK Fan]

I am stating the same so you are saying Dhoni the captain should take the responsibility of SRT' date=' GG, Viru, RD, VVS, Zak, Ishant, Sreesanth under performing. It could have happened if we had a choice, but here TINA worked for Dhoni. And then again, when was the last time, an Indian captain was sacked because we lost abroad.[/quote'] Well he did take credit for the same players over-performing and is hailed as a WC winning captain and someone who led us to test no 1. It cant be both ways right, he cant be the greatest Indian captain ever because his team wins and then the players are blamed when the team loses. Thats the forte' of the captain, in any professional setup the captain does get praise or blame according to the team's performance, he has more accountabilty than individual players

[rkt.india]

Show me when we lost 0-8 earlier. We haven't lost an abroad tour like that in years, forget about two consecutive such tours. We lost 0-3 (99) to world beater team of Australia and Sachin resigned. Vensarkar's team had lost to no.1 team of WI in 89 by 0-3, he was sacked. The only captain who survived humiliation of somehow similar level (same level of humiliation never happened earlier) was Azharuddin when we lost to Australia 0-4 in 92 and that (survival of Azhar) was very wrong thing to happen which plagued indian cricket for really long time.

We clean swept before too, 3-0, 4-0, this time it is 8-0. We lost 3-0 in 1999 in Australia as badly as this time around. Sachin did not resign after that 3-0 loss in Aus. He resigned after we lost at home 2-0 against SA. Yes, I do think we need a new test captain but problem is who is the candidate for that?

[rkt.india]

Well he did take credit for the same players over-performing and is hailed as a WC winning captain and someone who led us to test no 1. It cant be both ways right' date=' he cant be the greatest Indian captain ever because his team wins and then the players are blamed when the team loses. Thats the forte' of the captain, in any professional setup the captain does get praise or blame according to the team's performance, he has more accountabilty than individual players[/quote'] I always said captain is as good as the team and I doubt he ever took credit alone himself for our winds that has been his biggest strength till date.

[Crookbond]

Well he did take credit for the same players over-performing and is hailed as a WC winning captain and someone who led us to test no 1. It cant be both ways right' date= he cant be the greatest Indian captain ever because his team wins and then the players are blamed when the team loses. Thats the forte' of the captain, in any professional setup the captain does get praise or blame according to the team's performance, he has more accountabilty than individual players

Quantify.

[Debutant]

You've made a thread that essays a similar sentiment to what you've expressed here. Why do you specifically say International T20, as if its a different ball game than the IPL? Are the rules different? Are the grounds bigger? Are the opposing teams much stronger? Stop making this distinction, when there is none. Dhoni has performed in the IPL under high pressure situations on multiple occasions. Playing in Sri Lanka for the T20 WC would not be much different than playing in the IPL, condition wise. Besides, nobody cares about international T20 except for the WC. He failed yesterday, and no doubt it was him who was primarily responsible for the loss with his slow batting. However, it was only a friendly game yesterday and losing it is not the end of the world. Dhoni thrives under pressure. He's the best guy to lead the team in a T20. And its not like we have any alternatives who are even fractionally as good. Besides, what good is it changing a captain 1 week before a major tournament?

:hatsoff::hatsoff: Murali Vijay should be in the World Cup team. Pretty sure he will score a century in semis or final. :giggle:

[Raghav_12]

We clean swept before too' date=' [b']3-0, 4-0, this time it is 8-0. We lost 3-0 in 1999 in Australia as badly as this time around. Sachin did not resign after that 3-0 loss in Aus. He resigned after we lost at home 2-0 against SA. Yes, I do think we need a new test captain but problem is who is the candidate for that?

sir ji too much ho gaya.. 3-0 and 8-0 mein kuch anter hi nahin hota kya :-) I partially agree with point that we don't have very solid replacement for Dhoni, but problem is that there doesn't seem to be even a plan to replace Dhoni. Thing I am afraid of is that with few test wins in India everything will be forgotten and we'll get exposed as soon as we reach SA and then it will be too late.

[Crookbond]

sir ji too much ho gaya.. 3-0 and 8-0 mein kuch anter hi nahin hota kya :-) I partially agree with point that we don't have very solid replacement for Dhoni, but problem is that there doesn't seem to be even a plan to replace Dhoni. Thing I am afraid of is that with few test wins in India everything will be forgotten and we'll get exposed as soon as we reach SA and then it will be too late.

Virat Kohli? We will get exposed in SA less due to kaptaani and more due to players (and in particular batsmen) not performing - just like the 90s. Difference between correlation and causation.

[Trichromatic]

When Greame Smith got captaincy, he had played only 8 tests till then. He wasn't even part of 2003 WC squad before that.

[Sidhoni]

The pitch got slower as the match progressed and they were not giving any pace to work with. It was not easy to bat in the last 5 overs, Dhoni connected 2 and got 2 fours, Yuvi connected one and got a six. Nothing else came in those last 5 overs.

[Crookbond]

When Greame Smith got captaincy' date=' he had played only 8 tests till then. He wasn't even part of 2003 WC squad before that.[/quote'] How many Graeme Smith's have we seen in history? Let us not make exceptions the rules. It is important to follow the process. IMO, SA missed a trick there by not appointing Kirsten the Test captain. Remember, Dhoni was helped by Kumble too.

[Trichromatic]

The pitch got slower as the match progressed and they were not giving any pace to work with. It was not easy to bat in the last 5 overs' date=' Dhoni connected 2 and got 2 fours, Yuvi connected one and got a six. Nothing else came in those last 5 overs.[/quote'] We didn't lose match by 40 runs.

[rkt.india]

The pitch got slower as the match progressed and they were not giving any pace to work with. It was not easy to bat in the last 5 overs' date=' Dhoni connected 2 and got 2 fours, Yuvi connected one and got a six. Nothing else came in those last 5 overs.[/quote'] Pressure of captaincy between the two country is what makes this a hard job for Kohli at this time when he is just starting to blossom in test cricket.

[ravishingravi]

So, if India loses 8-0, it is team work. If India wins it is Dhoni's captaincy. It is true that captain is only as good as his team. But purely cricketing terms and in terms of basic captaincy aptitude and approach and lack of learning curve in terms of strategy, Dhoni should be criticized. He is tactically one of the absolute worst, his team notwithstanding. So, he is brilliant in Indian condition when India is chasing and gets the team through 90% of the times. On one occasion in one T 20 game, he doesn't and his place has to be questioned. Some lahori logic on display here.

[saneindian]

The pitch got slower as the match progressed and they were not giving any pace to work with. It was not easy to bat in the last 5 overs' date=' Dhoni connected 2 and got 2 fours, Yuvi connected one and got a six. Nothing else came in those last 5 overs.[/quote'] lol you are defending the indefensible. Why was Dhoni being ultra cautious in the overs 14 to 18? Why was he not trying to take risks when he knew man at the other end was coming back after a long layoff and that there were guys like Tiwary and Pathan sitting in the dugout? There was an over from Vettori which went for 2 runs where Dhoni defended a couple of deliveries. In hindsight, had the umpire given him out in the 17th over in what looked like a close call, we could have actually won the match.

[rkt.india]

So, if India loses 8-0, it is team work. If India wins it is Dhoni's captaincy. It is true that captain is only as good as his team. But purely cricketing terms and in terms of basic captaincy aptitude and approach and lack of learning curve in terms of strategy, Dhoni should be criticized. He is tactically one of the absolute worst, his team notwithstanding. So, he is brilliant in Indian condition when India is chasing and gets the team through 90% of the times. On one occasion in one T 20 game, he doesn't and his place has to be questioned. Some lahori logic on display here.

He is the one of best we had. A captain depends most on the bowling he has and that determines his tactics too.

[Sidhoni]

So, if India loses 8-0, it is team work. If India wins it is Dhoni's captaincy. It is true that captain is only as good as his team. But purely cricketing terms and in terms of basic captaincy aptitude and approach and lack of learning curve in terms of strategy, Dhoni should be criticized.He is tactically one of the absolute worst, his team notwithstanding. So, he is brilliant in Indian condition when India is chasing and gets the team through 90% of the times. On one occasion in one T 20 game, he doesn't and his place has to be questioned. Some lahori logic on display here.

Try giving the same bowling line up to any other captain in the world and then dare to post that.

[Trichromatic]

I don't think captains get credit for what extreme qualities of the team and performance. Dhoni won't get credit for Indian batting, Wasim and Waqar as captain were called their best for Pakistan's bowling and Ponting wasn't made greatest captain ever for the wins. Captains get credit when either team or some aspect is not best, but they are able to take best out of that. :dontknow:

[ravishingravi]

Try giving the same bowling line up to any other captain in the world and then dare to post that.

Fleming had one of the worst attacks early in his captaincy. People still saw the impact he made with tactical skills. I don't think having no slips when opposition is 6 down at the end of first session and two news batsman can be justified as bad bowling attacks. I think people should come out of clan mentality and see things for what they are. No denying the size of his task. There is also no denying that he is not helping the cause